New Gate to be placed. Wall will be removed.
 

Read this morning's Daily Sun. Article from VHA president in Local. Resolution did take more than 48 hours. Pays to be patient.

Can someone take a picture of that article and post it here for people off campus? My camera battery just died.

.... copied post to existing cart path closing thread

Too bad they didn't come to this resolution before some idiot sprayed their view on the wall.

And to give credit to the VHA - please!!! This organization has done nothing for the residents and I feel this was a staged event to give them credit where none was deserved. It took them four days to even mention this in the paper when the wall was one of the biggest events in our area since the Moffett mess. I smell something very fishy here. If the useless VHA expects my gratitude, they are in for a disappointment.

Not surprised at your response. The rest of us can come to our own conclusions. I think Village07's idea about Morse closing it just before the meeting with Fruitland Park may have been the issue since the wall was installed just prior to that meeting with the Fruitland Park officials and Fruitland Park might have wanted access to Colony via golf cart and could site the open gate on Paradise Trail.. We may never know.

He still may be Attilla the Hun. He may have caved due to pressure and outcry but the folks who needed to go to work and to the doctors and to Walmart in their carts will soon be able to do so.

All's well, that ends well.

What can one possibly say in response to this?

"The VHA is useless. If they did have anything to do with this, we shouldn't give them any credit because the whole thing was staged to make them look like they did something. It had to be that way because as we all know, the VHA is useless."

You've pretty much got it covered no matter what happens.

The term circular reasoning come into my mind for some reason.

Is the deal finalized? I read it as a "proposal". The whole debacle has a very "odd" flavor, that's for sure..I don't see any gain from this for anyone, other than to formally restrict access, which to me, is a good thing. Sure left a bad taste in my mouth and raises a lot of trust issues in the way it was carried out. I know that Morse is a quiet man who keeps things close to his chest, but he definitely needs a good PR person, cause this just stunk from the start to finish, if it is finished. I definitely don't trust the VHA, just another bunch of bought and paid for politicians as far as I'm concerned.

I don't trust the POA either. I want a new one without bias.

I wonder who ultimately pays for the wall construction and removal

You need to move here to see that it cannot be part of our amenity fees.

How shrewd is this, he took lemons and made lemonade! Ya gotta tip your hat to the guy.

And I am not surprised by your response as well.

From the newspaper article, it appears to be very much just a proposal at this stage. If it does go through then that would be excellent.

Sure, the whole thing may be a stunt by the VHA, or a way for the developer to quietly back down after so much negative reaction without losing face, but does that really matter?

If we get our cart path back then let's put this behind us and head off to Aldi.



I did like the other related story in the Daily Sun - "the police have noticed golf carts being driven alongside 441".

No explanation as to why golf carts have suddenly appeared there, of course.

Must be magic! Is Universal going to build Harry Potterland 3.0 here in The Villages?

What an incredibly ill-conceived solution. Using Gottschalk’s logic, allow me to restate his solution:

This VHA-proposed solution will allow TV residents unfettered access to non-resident facilities, while at the same time denying non-residents access to ‘our’ facilities.

Can any of you who have voiced your outrage at cart path closing and its egregious denial of access to public facilities honestly say that you think this is a fair and equitable solution to all those affected by the path closure?

Furthermore, Gottschalk’s accusations are blatantly false. The golf cart bridge over 441 was approved by the state and built and maintained by Morse commercial entities, not amenity funds. So Stonecrest residents can drive through Orange Blossom Hills, over the bridge and to all of the medical and retail facilities along the west side of 441 without ever setting foot on amenity supported paths or facilities. Who does he think he’s fooling?

Now if the reason for the wall being erected was concern for liability (an often used legal smokescreen), then why not propose to have Morse donate the homesite to the town of Lady Lake or Lake county, thereby making it an extension of Paradise Drive.

Hope this is a true resolution and not just a smoke screen so that the wall will stay up long enough to preclude loss of any possible easement rights.

Since someone (a district?) will be purchasing the property from Morse, can we expect the usual over-inflated value such as has been done with the rec centers? Sure hope not.

Sorry to sound so cynical but this has left a very bad taste in my mouth and something being "proposed" is not quite the same is something being truly done.

The article says the developer will donate the home site on Paradise Drive to the district government.

The strange sentence in the newspaper says that
"The VHA proposed solution is a compromise reached after hearing the various concerns of residents and meeting with both the district and the developer."

This seems to say that Mr. Gottschalk or members of the VHA met with Mr. Morse (or his representatives). I also read it that there were proposals and counter proposals which resulted in a compromise. I await Mr. Gottschalk's report to the VHA of what he was told, why suddenly after 20 years there were liability concerns which are somehow alleviated by a different kind of gate which will still allow carts to drive across "private property" (which private property, his or someone else's) and why if a better gate was a solution for the developer's concerns why that wasn't the original design change and why was there no public notice and even perhaps (forgive the thought) an opportunity for public input. I look forward to seeing what role the local governments may have had if in fact this wall went up without a permit in the decision to have it come done. And how quickly it comes down.

.

I will bet my best Sunday hat, this will work out fine and be history in no time.

Who are the outsiders
 

The comment in the article in the paper mentions outsiders coming in this gate to use our facilities. Other than stonecrest, what outsiders are they talking about? Also other than the championship courses which at times they pay double to play, you need a pass to use our facilities. Restaurants I am sure welcome outsiders. Everyone who has been here for a while knows the vha is the developers newsletter similar to the sun. The only useful info in their publication is the open forum. The poa got millions of dollars from the developer but had to go to court to get it. Fruitland park will think long and hard about doubling it's population under the developers arrangements. Maybe he wants a wall between where the villages will end and fruitland park other residents live.:bigbow: PS Lakeside landing residents can drive their street legal golf carts and they are a lot closer than stonecrest.

Everybody has access to all roads in TV by car because they are public roads. The area outside of the “The Wall” is open to Stonecrest AKA Everybody. So everybody can go every place but everybody can not pass thru the new gate to spend money at TV restaurants and businesses. Judging by the history of closed restaurants in SS everybody’s support is needed. Is Mr Big looking for more empty buildings?????

It may be that the developer is power hungry and greedy and controlling, and that contributed to this situation. However, the fact that you continue to stir the pot after a solution has been proposed that seems to address the concerns of all the affected residents makes me wonder about your motiviation.

Perhaps if you have such interest in how things are done in The Villages, you should make an investment in property here.

Sorry I missed the "battle" (road trip) but I read most of the posts. Lots of emotions displayed. Thanks to TOTV there was a place for opinions to be aired and voices to be heard. One thing that comes out of the whole crazy mess is that the VHA has the "ear" of the Developer. Of course, many knew that already. But this is not a "bad" thing either. POA has their place too----why I support both organizations. In this instance, like my mother use to say----" Jim, you catch more flies with sugar than you do vinegar".

Ed,
I posted in the original thread that I have begun to think that this was done not to keep people out, but rather to support the prices charged and paid for commercial lots within TV. I suspect one of the selling points for those lots is golf cart access. If businesses can build outside of TV and still have cart access, leverage is lost. From a business standpoint, I can understand being upset that he has created a wonderful and unique community and that others are using its attractiveness in ways that may affect his overall plan negatively.

poa/vha
 

I like the bias, as long as it is FOR the resident's interest and not a sounding board for the developer.

Good Point
 

Mike: You make a good point. We may never know all of the reasons the "Wall" was put up. I know that some Stonecrest people are going to be disappointed by this arrangement of a gate for Villager residents to get out and in but they can't get in the gate. We will see how strong an issue they make this proposed gate. :ohdear:

I'd like to know what facilities they think Stonecrest residents are using? We spend money in the stores and restaurants. We go to the movies. It was a way to have fun with my Grandson when he visited. There are places we arent allowed to go such as katie Bells and such. No problem. And who ever questioned getting into Stonecrest is mistaken. You can drive around the side of Walmart. Past Sonic to the front gate if you go to Curves or the country club. I could care less. I feel no resentment toward people in the Villages however i have always felt it coming from the Villages people. Not the friendliest home town to me.

I'd put up my best Sunday hat, but it's a baseball cap and I refuse to risk losing it. :icon_wink:

So, sure hope you're right. However, if the bet is that you will eat said hat, it would almost be worth losing the access just to see what kind of meal you turn it into. YUMMMM

You will always find those who don't agree - human nature I guess.

I know people who live in Stonecrest who have relatives who live in the Villages. They come visit here by car, and we usually go over there by car to visit them as well. It is quicker and much more comfortable than riding that trail!

I bet if some of those who live here actually met some of the people who live there, they might actually like them! The Villages vs Stonecrest war is just plain silly in my books.:boxing2: In the end, they are retirees, just like us!!!

Exactly. I have friends who live in the Villages. My husband and I are not wealthy by any means. We would drive around admiring landscaping on our golf cart when the weather cooled down. It was a cheap and inexpensive way of enjoying life. The golf cart just added to the fun. I always rented a cart when I had company from the Villages to take people and show them around. Some people actually ended up renting in the Villages looking toward a future home purchase. I'm just really sad that this happened.

Thevillagesfloridabook.com has a good article in it, w/postings from TOTV...

I read the "proposal" in the paper. There did not seem to be any agreement mentioned. Leaves me wondering why the developer would want to buy the adjacent home to satisfy the proposer. Maybe there will be a suggestion that it go to the AAC to see if they would approve the expenditure. Lastly, I recall years ago going through there in my golf cart to get to doctor's office and seem to recall there was a small gate operated by resident's gate card. I think the gate was frequently damaged and don't know if it was finally eliminated. Maybe the long term residents of the area would know.

I hear it's going to be a toll gate swipe your villages Id and the toll will be added to you amenities fee $1 either direction :boxing2:

The VHA proposal most certainly does not address the concerns of all the affected residents.

Now if you want to debate the issue intelligently, fine, but leave out the sarcastic remarks, thank you.

Everyone needs to calm down, act as adults, and I truly think the rude and nasty remarks need to be halted without delay...it served absolutely no purpose. Please, please:shocked:

linko38: This issue is not personal to me, meaning not a personal affront on anyone. But like you my wife and I like to travel by cart and admire the landscaping too. However, we paid premium dollars for that opportunity.
The Villages is getting very crowded and when all the seasonal residents and renters arrive the cart paths look like I-4. It is only going to get worse when this development is built out. So it is understandable that some residents are sensitive about this issue. I suspect there are a great number of people who live outside the villages that use the cart paths. It was told to me by employees of our golf Administration that outsiders have been sneaking on to our golf courses. Certainly you would agree this is not right or fair?

Having said that perhaps you can understand why some village residents get upset about non residents utilizing their privately and residents financed cart paths.

There is also another perspective here and that is the safety factor of golf carts traveling in and around 441.

Non residents have access to use public roads whether traveling by car or LSV and enjoy many of the amenities here.

I can tell you I had a resident from Stone Crest literally laugh in my face after telling me I was foolish to pay all that money to live in The Villages when he purchased in Stone Crest and still could get the village's lifestyle.

I support the Developer's move to build this wall and hope he does not replace it with a gate because all that is going to do is encourage some to break through the gate time and time again. I suspect the Developer had some real legitimate business reasons for his move.


Personal Best Regards:

You could be right Mike, it’s hard to say. But unfortunately he should have thought about this decades ago when he decided to take advantage of the new CDD law and then turn the roads over to the Counties to maintain.

You’re either a privately developed community with private roads maintained by its residents (like Stonecrest) or you’re a Community Development district built with tax free bonds with County roads open to the public. He can’t have it both ways.

EdV, isn't the private path that is to be gated at the end of The Villages cart path and not on the public road? We're not debating public road use.... or am I mistaken?

thank you. I think that is pretty well stated. We are not talking about the use of public roads, but private bridge and trails. Big difference in my book.

So I figure I need to go to the next VHA meeting. I went the web page, clicked on ever tab looking for a meeting schedule, if they have a schedule it is well hidden or they are a stealth organization.