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-   -   Income inequality for Teachers! (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/income-inequality-teachers-97528/)

jebartle 12-08-2013 11:43 AM
Income inequality for Teachers!
 
IMHO...Can not understand why we are arguing about a McDonald's employee making an increase up to $15.00 an hour, when the backbone of our childrens future are in the hands of our under-paid new teachers making $35,000...Where is the incentive for our college bound students to teach when they can make the same flipping hamburgers!....In the meantime our politicans are
spending millions on sports stadiums and at the same time laying-off our teachers....I don't get it!

BogeyBoy 12-08-2013 12:03 PM
I think in teaching and many other career choices salary is not the only incentive for making the decision.

As you stated, the $35,000 figure is for a new teacher. Some make over $100,000. I seriously doubt that a McDonalds worker will ever approach that figure even with a $15 starting wage.

I think $15 might be okay for a fast food worker in New York City, but not in little town USA.

livefree 12-08-2013 12:06 PM
Probably because the average Joe Sixpack thinks they or anybody could manage a classroom full of 20-30 kids plus teach them subjects they think they don't need, like arithmetic, algebra, and English grammar.

And because they probably think teachers actually "punch out" when the final bell rings, and that they leave all classroom tasks there until they return while instead, they work 2-3-4 hours at home every night.

The fact that the burger flippers are making that their "career" instead of an entry-level "springboard to earning their way upward" to a better job/career/schooling, shows their unwillingness to sacrifice in order to earn what teachers and management/owners earn.

rjm1cc 12-08-2013 12:36 PM
Don't forget the pension benefits when you evaluate pay.

rubicon 12-08-2013 12:37 PM
Income inequality for teachers is the main theme here. However the OP also alluded to the fact that people are arguing over McDonald workers getting$15.00 per hour.

In my view there is not an argument about a McDonald's employee or any other position earning $15.00 per hour. The discussion is centered on whether or not raising the minimum wage to $15.00 helps or hurts. Most economist believe it will have a negative affect because it will create a reduction in staffs around the country.

As to income inequality among teachers it is in the eye of the beholder. I have done enough market surveys of job positions over the years to know that you can't simply make cursory observations . As to quality our students are failing and falling behind other developed countries at a fast clip despite the billions taxpayers pour into schools. further there is now evidence, something I long suspected that teaching college are failing teacher students.

Bogie Shooter 12-08-2013 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BogeyBoy (Post 792486)
I think in teaching and many other career choices salary is not the only incentive for making the decision.

As you stated, the $35,000 figure is for a new teacher. Some make over $100,000. I seriously doubt that a McDonalds worker will ever approach that figure even with a $15 starting wage.

I think $15 might be okay for a fast food worker in New York City, but not in little town USA.
Not in Florida.
Highest salary around $65,000.........with a doctorate degree!
Florida Teacher Salaries

BogeyBoy 12-08-2013 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 792519)
Not in Florida.
Highest salary around $65,000.........with a doctorate degree!
Florida Teacher Salaries
Never meant to imply that Florida teachers were making over $100,000 but on reviewing the document you linked I see quite a few counties have high salaries over $70,000, and at least one over $80,000.

But back to my original statement on the subject: "salary is not the only incentive for making the decision".

Bogie Shooter 12-08-2013 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BogeyBoy (Post 792533)
Never meant to imply that Florida teachers were making over $100,000 but on reviewing the document you linked I see quite a few counties have high salaries over $70,000, and at least one over $80,000.

But back to my original statement on the subject: "salary is not the only incentive for making the decision".
I stand corrected.
However, they still have to support a family.................

keithwand 12-08-2013 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjm1cc (Post 792499)
Don't forget the pension benefits when you evaluate pay.
And 3 months off in the summer and Christmas break then winter break, then spring break then....

donb9006 12-08-2013 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jebartle (Post 792478)
IMHO...Can not understand why we are arguing about a McDonald's employee making an increase up to $15.00 an hour, when the backbone of our childrens future are in the hands of our under-paid new teachers making $35,000...Where is the incentive for our college bound students to teach when they can make the same flipping hamburgers!....In the meantime our politicans are
spending millions on sports stadiums and at the same time laying-off our teachers....I don't get it!
Well...if you did the math...something a teacher should have taught you... You'd see that your McDonalds worker making $15 an hour when working the SAME number of hours a typical teacher contracts for in a year...makes a grand total of $21,600 That assumes 8 hours a day for 180 days, a normal teachers contract. So, the teacher is making substantially more per the same number of hours worked. A teacher making $35,000 a year earns $34 an hour. A teacher making $80,000 a year is making $55 an hour. And I don't think a typical teacher is "working harder" than a typical McDonalds worker. Depending on your definition of "work". They're both dealing with unruly idiots all day...

Teachers have quite a racket already, I sometimes wonder why they make all the noise about how "unfair" they have it. Who else gets a couple of months off every summer? Two weeks off here...two weeks off there... Weekends, holidays off... I don't get why you're always complaining...

If I ran things, schools would be open Mon-Fri only closed during federal holidays like most people have it. Parents go through hell trying to arrange day care during all your holidays and vacations.

KEVIN & JOSIE 12-08-2013 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jebartle (Post 792478)
IMHO...Can not understand why we are arguing about a McDonald's employee making an increase up to $15.00 an hour, when the backbone of our childrens future are in the hands of our under-paid new teachers making $35,000...Where is the incentive for our college bound students to teach when they can make the same flipping hamburgers!....In the meantime our politicans are
spending millions on sports stadiums and at the same time laying-off our teachers....I don't get it!

Don't know what area your teachers make 35K. The teachers where I live are overpaid in salary and benefits, at the expense and sacrifice of the taxpayers. I would take all of them, cut their pay and benefits, and if they did not like it, they could look for other jobs. We have senior kindergarten teachers making 90K a year plus tremendous pensions....unlike any other public service job. And yes, if the college bound prefer, let them flip burgers at $15.00 per hour....the people who work hard at those jobs can't even make a living wage and often are on public assistance, at no fault of their own. They deserve $15.00 per hour!

njbchbum 12-08-2013 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by donb9006 (Post 792570)
Well...if you did the math...something a teacher should have taught you... You'd see that your McDonalds worker making $15 an hour when working the SAME number of hours a typical teacher contracts for in a year...makes a grand total of $21,600 That assumes 8 hours a day for 180 days, a normal teachers contract. So, the teacher is making substantially more per the same number of hours worked. A teacher making $35,000 a year earns $34 an hour.
snipped
Based on the amount of time and money that it takes to become a teacher vs the requirements to become a McDonalds entry level emp - that salary disparity seems quite justified!...not to mention the fact that the McDonald's emp gets to make lots more mistakes at filling orders than a teacher gets to make providing a teaching experience before being reprimanded. And as was mentioned before - a teacher will take their job home with them, whereas, a McDonald's emp will not.

njbchbum 12-08-2013 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KEVIN & JOSIE (Post 792585)
Don't know what area your teachers make 35K. The teachers where I live are overpaid in salary and benefits, at the expense and sacrifice of the taxpayers. I would take all of them, cut their pay and benefits, and if they did not like it, they could look for other jobs. We have senior kindergarten teachers making 90K a year plus tremendous pensions....unlike any other public service job. And yes, if the college bound prefer, let them flip burgers at $15.00 per hour....the people who work hard at those jobs can't even make a living wage and often are on public assistance, at no fault of their own. They deserve $15.00 per hour!
Can you define what is a 'living wage' and why it should be paid to someone without a high school degree in any entry level position?

KEVIN & JOSIE 12-08-2013 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by njbchbum (Post 792588)
Can you define what is a 'living wage' and why it should be paid to someone whithout a high school degree in any entry level position?
A living wage should be a wage where as a full time employee can at least provide a modest shelter for themselves without depending on public assistance, be able to purchase basic food items to feed themselves, purchase basic clothing items. This country was built on the backs of a lot of individuals who provided a much needed service to our country, and yes, many only had high school or less than high school educations, and yes, many did the jobs that others would not do. Does this mean that they should not have a quality of life for the fruits of their labor, that only college grads deserve this? Some are very fortunate to have college degrees because they are from a family that provided for them. There are many, many individuals in our country who are very brilliant, but never had the opportunity for higher education. Our country was built from a very deverse work force....both college and non college grads, but all were important in the success of our country.

skyc6 12-08-2013 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjm1cc (Post 792499)
Don't forget the pension benefits when you evaluate pay.
Our pensions are very quickly disappearing! Illinois just voted to pay back the state pension coffers, which our last 2 governors, who are in jail, robbed, by docking present and future pensions of retirees. They also raised the retirement age to 67 for teachers who are now in their 40's and :cus:

skyc6 12-08-2013 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keithwand (Post 792568)
And 3 months off in the summer and Christmas break then winter break, then spring break then....
OH--YOU DID NOT SAY THAT! Every summer, Christmas and break I was either doing some committee job or taking classes so I could get ahead, and incurring more student debt at the same time.

OBXNana 12-08-2013 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by donb9006 (Post 792570)
Well...if you did the math...something a teacher should have taught you... You'd see that your McDonalds worker making $15 an hour when working the SAME number of hours a typical teacher contracts for in a year...makes a grand total of $21,600 That assumes 8 hours a day for 180 days, a normal teachers contract. So, the teacher is making substantially more per the same number of hours worked. A teacher making $35,000 a year earns $34 an hour. A teacher making $80,000 a year is making $55 an hour. And I don't think a typical teacher is "working harder" than a typical McDonalds worker. Depending on your definition of "work". They're both dealing with unruly idiots all day...

Teachers have quite a racket already, I sometimes wonder why they make all the noise about how "unfair" they have it. Who else gets a couple of months off every summer? Two weeks off here...two weeks off there... Weekends, holidays off... I don't get why you're always complaining...

If I ran things, schools would be open Mon-Fri only closed during federal holidays like most people have it. Parents go through hell trying to arrange day care during all your holidays and vacations.

I would strongly suggest you spend a few hours a day in the typical class room and volunteer. Then go home with the teacher to prepare for the following day.

Don't judge until you walk in their shoes.

Shimpy 12-08-2013 05:43 PM
[QUOTE=donb9006;792570
Teachers have quite a racket already, I sometimes wonder why they make all the noise about how "unfair" they have it. Who else gets a couple of months off every summer? Two weeks off here...two weeks off there... Weekends, holidays off... I don't get why you're always complaining...
[/QUOTE]


Teachers know what they are getting into when they chose to be a teacher. They have nothing to complain about.

KEVIN & JOSIE 12-08-2013 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimpy (Post 792619)
Teachers know what they are getting into when they chose to be a teacher. They have nothing to complain about.
:agree:

Bogie Shooter 12-08-2013 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keithwand (Post 792568)
And 3 months off in the summer and Christmas break then winter break, then spring break then....
This is such a tired old worn out cliche that has been around, for me, since 1961.
Which doesn't even add to a good debate.

jebartle 12-08-2013 06:47 PM
Hi Kevin & Josie
 
I was referring to the average 1st year teacher in Seminole County, Fla...Of course, this depends on the subject that they would be teaching....I have a great deal of admiration for teachers (a profession that now needs to wear a bullet-proof vest to work), and I think that a jobs pay should be equal to what that job is worth to society....An Orange County deputy sheriff (who lays his life on the line) has a starting pay of $31,000 a year...An unskilled employee working the grill at a fast-food restaurant 40 hours a week will make the same thing...Hmm!...I'll say no more!


Quote:
Originally Posted by KEVIN & JOSIE (Post 792585)
Don't know what area your teachers make 35K. The teachers where I live are overpaid in salary and benefits, at the expense and sacrifice of the taxpayers. I would take all of them, cut their pay and benefits, and if they did not like it, they could look for other jobs. We have senior kindergarten teachers making 90K a year plus tremendous pensions....unlike any other public service job. And yes, if the college bound prefer, let them flip burgers at $15.00 per hour....the people who work hard at those jobs can't even make a living wage and often are on public assistance, at no fault of their own. They deserve $15.00 per hour!

gomoho 12-08-2013 06:55 PM
If it wasn't for the unions, teachers that worked hard and actually taught could be rewarded accordingly. Unfortunately the union says pay them all the same - good job or bad.

njbchbum 12-08-2013 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomoho (Post 792642)
If it wasn't for the unions, teachers that worked hard and actually taught could be rewarded accordingly. Unfortunately the union says pay them all the same - good job or bad.
gomoho - the concept of teacher reward based on performance is an interesting one...have you yet been able to identify performance factors that actually measure "worked hard and actually taught"? I haven't - and I have designed performance standards and compensation levels as part of my career! I'd love to hear them if you have.

jbdlfan 12-08-2013 07:37 PM
WOW! Quite a bit of bologna being sliced here. Some of these comments are obviously from those that never stepped foot into a classroom. But hey, that's alright. First wrong statement......a teacher with 7 years experience in Marion County makes $36,000 a year, not anywhere near even $50,000, let alone $100,000. Next.....I've NEVER had a summer or Christmas vacation off.....EVER. Um...I had NO idea what I was getting into. Never imagined I would have a 13 year old student tell me the fourth day of school she was pregnant from a 7th grader. Never imagined a student telling me that he couldn't read his book last night because he is living in the bed of his grandparents pickup truck. Never imagined I would have a student with a cigarette burn in the middle of his forehead from a dad that he watched murder his mother in their kitchen right in front of him at the age of 6. Never imagined having a student that had been prostituted with her sister by her mother since the age of 5. Some of you have no idea of what you speak and really show your ignorance when you do. But hey, I'll defend your right to be ignorant to my death.....

DougB 12-08-2013 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by njbchbum (Post 792663)
gomoho - the concept of teacher reward based on performance is an interesting one...have you yet been able to identify performance factors that actually measure "worked hard and actually taught"? I haven't - and I have designed performance standards and compensation levels as part of my career! I'd love to hear them if you have.
Performances factors have been identified that measure "worked hard and actually taught" in the new Florida Instructional Personnel Performance Appraisal System. 50% on teacher performance of meeting identified indicators and 50% on student performance. If you would really love to see them, pm me your email address and I will email you the rubric for the 7 dimensions my district uses. Though I have to warn you, it is 21 pages.
If you can read this, thank a teacher!

784caroline 12-08-2013 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbdlfan (Post 792664)
WOW! Quite a bit of bologna being sliced here. Some of these comments are obviously from those that never stepped foot into a classroom. But hey, that's alright. First wrong statement......a teacher with 7 years experience in Marion County makes $36,000 a year, not anywhere near even $50,000, let alone $100,000. Next.....I've NEVER had a summer or Christmas vacation off.....EVER. Um...I had NO idea what I was getting into. Never imagined I would have a 13 year old student tell me the fourth day of school she was pregnant from a 7th grader. Never imagined a student telling me that he couldn't read his book last night because he is living in the bed of his grandparents pickup truck. Never imagined I would have a student with a cigarette burn in the middle of his forehead from a dad that he watched murder his mother in their kitchen right in front of him at the age of 6. Never imagined having a student that had been prostituted with her sister by her mother since the age of 5. Some of you have no idea of what you speak and really show your ignorance when you do. But hey, I'll defend your right to be ignorant to my death.....
************************************************** *********

Great post ....and from experience!!!

PammyJ 12-08-2013 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbdlfan (Post 792664)
WOW! Quite a bit of bologna being sliced here. Some of these comments are obviously from those that never stepped foot into a classroom. But hey, that's alright. First wrong statement......a teacher with 7 years experience in Marion County makes $36,000 a year, not anywhere near even $50,000, let alone $100,000. Next.....I've NEVER had a summer or Christmas vacation off.....EVER. Um...I had NO idea what I was getting into. Never imagined I would have a 13 year old student tell me the fourth day of school she was pregnant from a 7th grader. Never imagined a student telling me that he couldn't read his book last night because he is living in the bed of his grandparents pickup truck. Never imagined I would have a student with a cigarette burn in the middle of his forehead from a dad that he watched murder his mother in their kitchen right in front of him at the age of 6. Never imagined having a student that had been prostituted with her sister by her mother since the age of 5. Some of you have no idea of what you speak and really show your ignorance when you do. But hey, I'll defend your right to be ignorant to my death.....
Those of us who "know" get it! I don't think unless someone has walked in our shoes that they could possibly understand. I don't know exactly how this profession got such a bad reputation. Don't care what people think anymore, I know what we do and the barriers we fight every day! My passion is still alive and untouched by anyone! :super:

graciegirl 12-08-2013 08:19 PM
I am hard wired to respect all teachers.


All policemen.


And the clergy.


And MOST of them deserve respect.


I have decided that I don't respect some mayors and some mayoral candidates and some other elected officials.

Bucco 12-08-2013 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbdlfan (Post 792664)
WOW! Quite a bit of bologna being sliced here. Some of these comments are obviously from those that never stepped foot into a classroom. But hey, that's alright. First wrong statement......a teacher with 7 years experience in Marion County makes $36,000 a year, not anywhere near even $50,000, let alone $100,000. Next.....I've NEVER had a summer or Christmas vacation off.....EVER. Um...I had NO idea what I was getting into. Never imagined I would have a 13 year old student tell me the fourth day of school she was pregnant from a 7th grader. Never imagined a student telling me that he couldn't read his book last night because he is living in the bed of his grandparents pickup truck. Never imagined I would have a student with a cigarette burn in the middle of his forehead from a dad that he watched murder his mother in their kitchen right in front of him at the age of 6. Never imagined having a student that had been prostituted with her sister by her mother since the age of 5. Some of you have no idea of what you speak and really show your ignorance when you do. But hey, I'll defend your right to be ignorant to my death.....
You are right on with this post.

I am amazed and saddened as I watch this country become a nation of "headline readers" and subjects of the political hacks on television.

This tread is so full of inane, tired cliches that are thrown around.....summers off, etc. The comparison (s) used are simply ludicrious.

The minimum wage debate cannot be held in any intelligent manner until you turn off the political hacks on TV an learn...for example...the propose 66% increase will benefit approx 15 % of those who need it. An increase as proposed WILL SPIKE UNEMPLOYMENT...that is factual.

Our wonderful "leaders" love using all the political talk on this issue when they should stop taking the easy way out and go to work on the tax code if they REALLY want to help. An increase across the board as proposed does nothing to address the problem, but it makes for great sound bites, A conversation about the facts involved on both sides of this issue would be great and informative instead of using inane comparisons to teachers and politicians.

Bucco 12-08-2013 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PammyJ (Post 792680)
Those of us who "know" get it! I don't think unless someone has walked in our shoes that they could possibly understand. I don't know exactly how this profession got such a bad reputation. Don't care what people think anymore, I know what we do and the barriers we fight every day! My passion is still alive and untouched by anyone! :super:
Married to a gal who spent 35 years in the classroom, and to those who talk with such uninformed glee, it is hard for me to imagine anyone working harder than those, like you who have that "passion". Those who bring up any bad apples but tolerate the shenanigans of many people they "follow" and quote are living the true definition of hypocrisy.

aaffmom 12-08-2013 08:36 PM
They have a great retirement plan and health insurance too. Also, they build up sick time and vacation.

DougB 12-08-2013 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaffmom (Post 792699)
They have a great retirement plan and health insurance too. Also, they build up sick time and vacation.
You really don't know what you are talking about, do you?

keithwand 12-08-2013 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 792635)
This is such a tired old worn out cliche that has been around, for me, since 1961.
Which doesn't even add to a good debate.

What's the cliche? Summers off?
My brother in law has been an 8th grade math teacher for 20 years. How much has math changed?
He makes 80k plus extra $$ coaching golf.
He spends the summers on the beach and golfing. Real tough and he admits it.
Now add a pension at 50 percent and great medical benefits.
No one is forced into teaching so if one feels underpaid then move on.
Don't know of any other jobs with tenure; do you?

jbdlfan 12-08-2013 09:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keithwand (Post 792707)
What's the cliche? Summers off?
My brother in law has been an 8th grade math teacher for 20 years. How much has math changed?
He makes 80k plus extra $$ coaching golf.
He spends the summers on the beach and golfing. Real tough and he admits it.
Now add a pension at 50 percent and great medical benefits.
No one is forced into teaching so if one feels underpaid then move on.
Don't know of any other jobs with tenure; do you?
Same teacher in Marion County makes $48,000, plus $1500 for golf coach. Pension, maybe 40%. Medical benefits not even average....No one is forced into teaching You got that one right. Oh by the way..... if you think math hasn't changed, you have absolutely no idea about Common Core. But, summers off. Right Doug?

jbdlfan 12-08-2013 09:31 PM
But they do get 22 minutes for lunch( well, actually 16 minutes after dismissal) and bathroom breaks. Oh wait, no such thing as a bathroom break. But summers off!

DougB 12-08-2013 09:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbdlfan (Post 792729)
Same teacher in Marion County makes $48,000, plus $1500 for golf coach. Pension, maybe 40%. Medical benefits not even average....No one is forced into teaching You got that one right. Oh by the way..... if you think math hasn't changed, you have absolutely no idea about Common Core. But, summers off. Right Doug?
If a math teacher is teaching the same way he always has for the last 20 years, then he has no business still teaching.

donb9006 12-08-2013 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 792635)
This is such a tired old worn out cliche that has been around, for me, since 1961.
Which doesn't even add to a good debate.
They sign a 180 day contract, have summers off, they have unions that enforce contract rules. What is there to dispute? Are you saying they're forced to work throughout the summer? Where? They're not the school.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbdlfan (Post 792664)
WOW! Quite a bit of bologna being sliced here. Some of these comments are obviously from those that never stepped foot into a classroom. But hey, that's alright. First wrong statement......a teacher with 7 years experience in Marion County makes $36,000 a year, not anywhere near even $50,000, let alone $100,000. Next.....I've NEVER had a summer or Christmas vacation off.....EVER. Um...I had NO idea what I was getting into. Never imagined I would have a 13 year old student tell me the fourth day of school she was pregnant from a 7th grader. Never imagined a student telling me that he couldn't read his book last night because he is living in the bed of his grandparents pickup truck. Never imagined I would have a student with a cigarette burn in the middle of his forehead from a dad that he watched murder his mother in their kitchen right in front of him at the age of 6. Never imagined having a student that had been prostituted with her sister by her mother since the age of 5. Some of you have no idea of what you speak and really show your ignorance when you do. But hey, I'll defend your right to be ignorant to my death.....
I've been in plenty of classrooms...on both sides. I know how little "work" teaching is. You stand there and talk. I taught seminars. f you know our material, it's easy.

Now for the rest of your rant...move to a better neighborhood. Get out of the inner city. Why would someone stay there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 792692)
You are right on with this post.

I am amazed and saddened as I watch this country become a nation of "headline readers" and subjects of the political hacks on television.

This tread is so full of inane, tired cliches that are thrown around.....summers off, etc. The comparison (s) used are simply ludicrious.

The minimum wage debate cannot be held in any intelligent manner until you turn off the political hacks on TV an learn...for example...the propose 66% increase will benefit approx 15 % of those who need it. An increase as proposed WILL SPIKE UNEMPLOYMENT...that is factual.

Our wonderful "leaders" love using all the political talk on this issue when they should stop taking the easy way out and go to work on the tax code if they REALLY want to help. An increase across the board as proposed does nothing to address the problem, but it makes for great sound bites, A conversation about the facts involved on both sides of this issue would be great and informative instead of using inane comparisons to teachers and politicians.
Cliches? Or facts? You can't deny they sign 180 day contracts. And with the unions watching...they DON'T work more than that. Teachers literally have a part time job with full time pay. They literally work LESS than half the year! Who works half the month, or a week on, a week off, with full time pay? They get outrageous time off and great benefits. And yet they complain...

Now...the crap that goes on in the classroom? That's a social issue. I'd have the kids removed, or sent to a "suspension" facility. You're there to learn, misbehave and you're out. The kids shouldn't run the schools. When did we lose control of the kids?

Quote:
Originally Posted by keithwand (Post 792707)
What's the cliche? Summers off?
My brother in law has been an 8th grade math teacher for 20 years. How much has math changed?
He makes 80k plus extra $$ coaching golf.
He spends the summers on the beach and golfing. Real tough and he admits it.
Now add a pension at 50 percent and great medical benefits.
No one is forced into teaching so if one feels underpaid then move on.
Don't know of any other jobs with tenure; do you?
Denial. Teaching is lucrative. I would have done it id I'd known what a racket it was earlier. And if I'd had more teachers that seemed worthy of following. We all knew most teachers just show up, talk, give a test, and go home. They weren't anyone to emulate or strive to be like.

The only thing hard about teaching is the behavior of the kids...if they're trouble deal with them. Move to a better neighborhood. Do you think teachers here at the villages schools have it hard?

I'm sorry, I have no pity for teachers. They have a great gig.

DougB 12-08-2013 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by donb9006 (Post 792736)
They sign a 180 day contract, have summers off, they have unions that enforce contract rules. What is there to dispute? Are you saying they're forced to work throughout the summer? Where? They're not the school.

Cliches? Or facts? You can't deny they sign 180 day contracts. And with the unions watching...they DON'T work more than that.

I can deny they sign a 180 day contract. Why not get your first fact straight, do some research on how long their contract is, then we will discuss the others misrepresentations you spew.

jbdlfan 12-08-2013 09:47 PM
[QUOTE=donb9006;792736]They sign a 180 day contract, have summers off, they have unions that enforce contract rules. What is there to dispute? Are you saying they're forced to work throughout the summer? Where? They're not the school.



I've been in plenty of classrooms...on both sides. I know how little "work" teaching is. You stand there and talk. I taught seminars. f you know our material, it's easy.

You would have a teaching job for a very short time in my district.... Ever heard of differentiated instruction or ESE or Accommodations or IEP or SLD or.... never mind, based on your post, I know the answer already.

jbdlfan 12-08-2013 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by donb9006 (Post 792736)
They sign a 180 day contract, have summers off, they have unions that enforce contract rules. What is there to dispute? Are you saying they're forced to work throughout the summer? Where? They're not the school.



I've been in plenty of classrooms...on both sides. I know how little "work" teaching is. You stand there and talk. I taught seminars. f you know our material, it's easy.

Now for the rest of your rant...move to a better neighborhood. Get out of the inner city. Why would someone stay there?



Cliches? Or facts? You can't deny they sign 180 day contracts. And with the unions watching...they DON'T work more than that. Teachers literally have a part time job with full time pay. They literally work LESS than half the year! Who works half the month, or a week on, a week off, with full time pay? They get outrageous time off and great benefits. And yet they complain...

Now...the crap that goes on in the classroom? That's a social issue. I'd have the kids removed, or sent to a "suspension" facility. You're there to learn, misbehave and you're out. The kids shouldn't run the schools. When did we lose control of the kids?



Denial. Teaching is lucrative. I would have done it id I'd known what a racket it was earlier. And if I'd had more teachers that seemed worthy of following. We all knew most teachers just show up, talk, give a test, and go home. They weren't anyone to emulate or strive to be like.

The only thing hard about teaching is the behavior of the kids...if they're trouble deal with them. Move to a better neighborhood. Do you think teachers here at the villages schools have it hard?

I'm sorry, I have no pity for teachers. They have a great gig.
Please, Please, Please, if you are available anytime...ANYTIME come spend a day, a half day even and hour with me. I can arrange it. No Problem. Please private message me so you can come back on here and PROVE you are right. Pretty please......
Inner city....how about 2 miles from The Villages. Heck, I'll even pick you up and buy you lunch!


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