minimum income
 

What would you consider a MINIMUM retirement income to live compfortably in TV? consider mortgage, insurance, taxes, garbage, water, electric, fees, yardwork, housecleaner, every otherstuff costs.

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retirement and mortgage don't mix from my perspective. excluding mortgage I'd say $4,000/month.

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The $1,000 figure doesn't pertain to everyday living expenses - just the cost of maintaining your property. I do not think that figure included gasoline, insurance, food, etc.

HB

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My figure was meant to include everything, people that have been retired should be able to give insight as to whether it is close.

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with no mortgage and a one person household i live comfortably on 2-3 thousand a month. using extra income for travel and/or family vacations.
lots of everyday outdoor activities like swimming, social clubs, events on the squares etc are free.

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I have to say, $4000 a month sounds awful high to me. We live in IL now and the cost of living in is high and where we pay a lot more than $4000 a month, I was under the impression the cost of living a nice life style in TV was less than $2000 a month and that included everything (minus mortgage). I would be interested to hear from others who live there and have an average lifestyle enjoying dinner out. movies, etc. I realize it's hard to ball park because everyone lives differently but what about fixed expenses; if under $1000, am I understanding that it will cost $3000 plus to enjoy a decent recreational lifestyle???

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nothing i do or purchase in tv costs as much as i paid in portland, maine or cambridge, mass.

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We talking net or gross income? The question pertained to Gross Income including mortgage.

I think the $4000 gross plus mortgage might be reasonable for two people.

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My 'current' business plan (which I hope to execute in late 2008/ early 2009) calls for about $3200 per month.. it is loaded with golf (3-4 x per week on the Championship courses plus a couple bowling leagues!)... It doesnt include a mortgage since I will be lucky enough to pay cash for a house... the budget includes monies for savings in anticipation of traveling and vacationing....plus it's just me... because I'm only 55 right now, Medical is a wild card!

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Median household income in The Villages in 2005 was $44,800


http://www.city-data.com/city/The-Villages-Florida.html

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Pete I believe the answers you were given were quick guesses by the people who gave them.
So I would like to put my 2 cents worth in. First of all as I have stated in TOTV on a prior occasion, Mortgage and retirement do not mix. Having said that I believe that with out a mortgage and depending on your cost of a medical supplement and maybe a policy to cover long term care plus TV monthly expenses your looking at about $2,000 to $2,500. Of course I am not yet retired and not a TV owner yet, so it is just my estimate.It would all depend on the life style you plan to have. I am not presently a golfer I plan to probably learn but, will not become a fanatic. Maybe a couple of times a month if I like it.
Larry & Bev

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What would the estimated cost for TV housing be if you excluded food, mortgage, recreation & medical? :dontknow:

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In response to diskman saying retirement and mortgage don't mix, that entirely depends on your financial situation. We are fortunate enough to have money with an investment firm, that, this year, will make about 14 percent, and has been that or more for the last ten years. It makes no financial sense for me to pay cash for house with a part of that, when we can use someone else's money, at 6 percent, and leave the 250,000 or so in my accounts, to return 14 or up, clearing at least 8 percent. i'd rather leave my money with the amazing people of Fisher investments, than subject it to the ups and downs of hoping to build more equity in housing market.

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We are 1 1/2 year away from retiring and moving but I was figuring around $4,000/month. That figures sounds reasonable for a fair standard of living. I figure it would be more yearly depending on our travels. We are still figuring out what makes more sense financially. To pay cash or take small mortgage so we'll have some deductions at end of year. We'll discuss with our accountant. I think anywhere from $3,000-4,000 is reasonable based on figures I have seen.

Pili

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I tend to agree with Muscle. Our financial person more or less said the same thing. Having a small mortgage (if you can afford it of course) gives you more cash and lets face it, for those of us with kids or relatives, they get the house when we pass on anyway. They can pay off the mortgage with the sale of the house.

Having more money in your investments makes sense - you can withdraw from your investments - how do you do that with a mortgage free home. It only works if you sell it and for us, we hope, TV is going to be our last home.

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Historically, the stock market AVERAGES about 10% increase per year and inflation AVERAGES 3% per year so you net out on AVERAGE 7% per year. An AVERAGE of 1% over the mortgage cost.

I don't want to be stuck on a down turn of the market or up turn of inflation trying to make monthly mortgage payments from the proceeds of the stock market.

I'm paying off the mortgage from my investments when I retire and eliminate the $1,000 or so monthly expense and the worry of what might happen to the market.

If we get in a major cash crunch later, we can think about opening a new mortgage.

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so, if you find yourself in a cash crunch, then THAT is the time you want to start making monthly payments?!?!?! That doesn't make sense to me, what am I missing here?!?!?!

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I think what it means is this:
You need $20,000 cash, but don't have it, but have a house with a lot of equity. A 30-yr fixed at around 6% costs around $6 per thousand. So you could have $20,000 in cash and only have to pay around $120 per month. Of course these are rough numbers, but I think that's the point being made.

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Exactly, steve, understood, but, you know that of that 120 a month, how much is paying off the actual loan, not much, is mostly going to the interest, wouldn't it be? keeping money in diversified investments, should easily pay your mortgage and much more, in my knowledge. just seems to me you want your money working for you, and not all tied up in yopur house. i understand real estate values rise and all, but with a spred out investment portfolio, you should exceed the real estate market in long run

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Paying off the mortgage is having the money work for you. You can save the 6% mortgage interest or you can hope to make 7% in the market.

There isn't a market broker anywhere who will tell you to take your money out of the market.

Common investment stratagy is to be financially conservative in your retirement years; conservative investors go into the bond market and make less than mortgage interest.

(and Stevefrom NY correctly answered the later mortgage issue - you use the mortgage funds to alleviate the cash crunch)

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I'd personally rather keep the $20K in the "bank" and use the home equity to fund my cash crunch, whatever it is (as long as I can afford the $120/mo). It's probably more a personal preference than anything else, but I just feel the home equity is an untapped resource, and my cash is my cash and I'd like to leave it whole. :dontknow:

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If you need money after you retire and you have your home all paid for you could always take out a reverse mortgage.

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I think there are valid pro and con points for having or not having a mortgage. If you want the peace of mind of minimal cash outflow, then go mortgage free. If you have the financial discipline to get a higher return than your mortgage costs, go for the mortage. The key point being don't overspend and have a mortgage - and not have enough cash flow.

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As a four year Villager I think the 3000-3500 per month without a mortgage is about right to be able to do just about anything you want any time you want. I think the area that you can go over budget the fastest is dining out. You will have sooooo many opportunities to eat out with friends, neighbors, golf buddies, etc. that it can quickly add up to a big monthly expense. We eat out about twice a week but if we accepted all invitations it would be 8-10 times.

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Good points all, I especially like the "peace of mind" thing, whatever you do, if it gives you that peace of mind, you can't put a price on that, now can we?

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There are sure a lot of respones to the original question.

The web page on the Villages was quite interesting.

I think the bottom line is between 3 &4k, no sense living in paradise if you can't afford to do the things you want to do in paradise!

Thanx for all the respones.

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Currently our costs average around $700 per month living in TV. This amount only includes amenities, gas & electric, water, sewer, trash, cable, telephone, pest control and lawn service. To this amount you would need to figure your cost if you have a mortgage, car payment, food and entertainment expenses over and above the free activites available here in TV. It doesn't cost anything except your monthly amenity fee to use any pool, tennis courts, horseshoe pits, shuffleboard courts, pool tables, pickleball courts or walking areas. There are also clubs to join and places to play cards or bingo and get togethers with neighbors. Our cost to live in TV is less than what we needed living in Saratoga Springs, NY. Our taxes are lower, our gas cost for our car is usually only around $40 per month because we do mostly everything in our electric golf cart. The movies are less expensive here too and you can go to a show at the Savannah Center for $12.00. We made sure we weren't going to be house poor when we moved here and we know that if either of us passes away the surviving spouse will be able to maintain the same standard of living. You need to have a plan and work your plan. Personally I think everyone should live in TV because it is really a great lifestyle and so pretty here.

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Of course there are many variables in this question. We are humble people who enjoy life everyday. BUT we live modestly and are very fortunate to live here in TV. The income needed depends so much on the size house you buy.....the bigger the house the larger the fees for water, bugs, lawn and A/C etc.. I would rather play than pay. We believe that mortgages and debt do not mix with retirement. There are so many free activities to enjoy BUT golf and college classes are $$. Eating out does need to be added into the budget. I never thought we would eat out this much.....love it.

Its a lifestyle that is just so great!!!

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I forgot to mention in my prior post but the Executive golf is also part of the monthly amenity cost there is no additional golf cost unless you choose to play on a Championship course.

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I have a comment and would like to get a response . If you go to the viilage website under advertising , rate card the comment is made that the average household in tv has a family income of $85,400. Just trying to nail down the cost when I stop working. We are from CT Fairfield county and everything is so expensive.

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trumbull... that avg income may be a carrot to attract more commercial tenants; Last year, I met the gentlement who heads Citizen First Trust Dept and he quoted my a similar $85K figure...but, as I recall that pertained to their most recent homebuyers, not the total Villages population. This could be reasonable, given the number of younger retirees (and still working folks) coming in, those that are purchasing properties now (while still working) in anticipation of retirement, etc. Lots of ways to bend the numbers.

But, that being said, I think a number of the prior posts give a fair estimate of cost of living and the variables to consider. Size of house, mortgage or no mortgage, bond paid or no bond, auto expenses, insurance costs (self insured for health?) and all the extras (eating out, golf) all factor in. I agree that the basic cost to maintain a house here, excluding mortgage, is between 800-1100 per month. This would include all the various fees and services, homeowners insurance, property tax, bond, utilities. Vacations, dining out, extra golf, auto expenses, clothing, charity, income tax, etc are above and beyond this figure.

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trumbull, where did you find the village website under advertising?

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SOOO - if you winter in TV and summer elsewhere you probably have to add the 800 - 1100 fixed monthly cost to the 3500 to 4000 to determine your cost to have two places (plus mortgages if applicable). on he upper end it looks to be about 5100/mo or 61,200 per year (I still think everyone is talking net numbers - after taxes numbers) so you probably have to add about another 10% which makes the total more like 67,000 per year for two places (and it looks like maybe over 1/3 of village people are snowbirds)


Maybe i need to work a few more years ! LOL

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Assuming that's right, at 6.7% return, you'd need $1 million invested to make $67K without hitting the principle!

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Guess I'll have to sell my house

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LOL ;D

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If your selling your house you'll have to get in line. Lots of people waiting to sell so they can move to TV. >:(

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OK, where should I start hm? OK Boomergirl, when you have something to ask that has NOTHING to do with the CURRENT TOPIC you go to the bottom of the page and click on the words NEW TOPIC.
Now to the topic at hand. I believe the person who posed the original question to be of modest means and I think my original response was fairly accurate. Yes muscles59, if you have a hefty income mortgage interest is a good deduction on an investment which will most likely increase. If someone has a paid house they can always get an equity loan or reverse mtg. We are Californians and have huge equity in our home (even in this market) and after all these years I can't wait to be mortgage free. So i can spend my bucks on life in retirement instead of supporting the bottom line of the bank. :hot: :hot: :beer2: :clap2: :2cool:
Larry & Bev

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jjdees it is under the villagesdailysun website, advertising then rate card