Athiests in Foxholes
 

Since I could not shake a statement I heard out of my mind, I went into research mode. The statement: THERE ARE NO ATHEISTS IN FOXHOLES,!

Really, well it turns out that is not the case. I found a very good read on the subject.

Military Association of Atheists & Freethinkers | Atheists in Foxholes, in Cockpits, and on Ships - Military Association of Atheists & Freethinkers

I think the statement "there are no atheists in foxholes" refers to a situation that many veterans in TV can relate to. It means being under heavy attack with sappers in the wire, rockets and mortars everywhere, the night lighting up with tracers so thick it doesn't seem that anyone can survive. Flares going off while you struggle to keep whatever night vision you can. In those circumstances, the saying implies that even an atheist will pray to survive the night. It does not mean that you can't be in the military and still be an atheist anymore than someone praying to survive another few minutes proves the existence of a higher power. The search for truth that you seem to be on is a worthwhile journey, whether or not it brings you closer to atheism or closer to a relationship with a higher power. I personally lean towards atheism but that comes after my own travels through Judaism, Christianity, Mormonism, and Buddhism. Good luck on your journey. This is certainly a case where the journey itself is as rewarding as the destination.

This is a personal issue and can be very explosive for some. In my view there is no one on earth that can answer it. They may believe they have the answer but they can never using science make such a conclusion.

In effect for me one of two things is going to occur following my last breath either I will move toward the bright light or there will be nothing. If the former than a consciousness continues if the latter well it doesn't and I won't know. I prefer the former to occur. I believe prayer, the golden rule the ten commandments and following the good example Jesus provided are better for me and for society. I also believe in what was once termed the Protestant Ethic and hence believe in a capitalistic society To continue an argument about the existence of God that no one can prove is counter-productive and often is hurtful.

Some people have blind faith and I really do admire them for their deep commitment. Some people are agnostic and some atheists and I will respect their right to question the god concept. However, I abhor an in your face approach on this subject. So unless there is a specific reason for such discussion such a group of people gathered for such purposeful discussion silence seems the better choice

What happens to each of us when we are faced with life threatening or devastating situations is personal, often not understandable, or reasonable or even good.


None of us can give another an absolute.


I have been in a couple of foxholes of life and completely lost faith in God, and a few others and found Him close to me.


I wish anyone, ANYONE in any foxhole, anywhere, of any kind............


Comfort to some degree. And if we survive that foxhole, compassion for others in the same boat.

Golf nut ...this is a little better topic...but........
 

I am glad you didn't start a thread on Santa's complexion bothering folks. I just saw that on The Today show.




Merry Christmas everyone.

There is also this monument. Atheists In Foxholes - Freedom From Religion Foundation

I am a deeply spiritual person but not much of a church goer as I find most services rather boring. Raised a Lutheran but minored in Religious Studies at the University of Nevada, Reno and attended BYU Law School for a short period in 1982. Also dabbled with the Unification Church for about 4 hours total around 1978 until they kicked me out for being too argumentative! https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...303-post2.html Did a lot of church hopping as well in Reno, Nevada when I was trying to get a fix on different religions.

It seems to be up to each person to have their own journey to or away from whatever God they might envision. My Lutheran background seems to creep back into everything with the emphasis on personal relationships to God.

It's funny how in times of desperation...people will go to any measures for some comfort...real or imagined.

the need to pigeon hole personal beliefs according to one's own bearing is somewhat limiting of reality given the diversity of individuals whether by race, religion or any other characterization is at best futile, however personal.

I, like many, do not have the time of day for those who use their personal beliefs to minimize or belittle the belief of others (and this statement is not to be interpreted as aimed at ANYTHING that has been posted...because it is not!).

As far as any search for which is best or not or other I personally put that in the category of trying to step into the same spot of water in a flowing stream....good luck.

Opinions and beliefs are as varied as there are individuals and there is no individual qualified to measure another.

btk

Would you define atheist as someone who believes there is no God because they cannot prove it logically to their satisfaction?
If so, then I would ask how one can firmly disbelieve something that cannot be proved or disproved? Why take such an illogical position?
It seems as irrational to me to disbelieve as to believe since neither position is subject to empirical proof.

I find comfort in believing in a higher power, and the power of prayer.

Therefore, I would not find any comfort in being an atheists.

People should follow the dictates of their concious, and seek the truth, in what is right for them, Anything else, is folly. IMHO

I understand what you're saying Kitty, but if I were to say to you that somewhere on Earth there is a squirrel that speaks perfect english, it would not be your task to prove my statement wrong, it would be my task to prove my statement right. It is not illogical to believe that a talking squirrel doesn't exist without proof of its existence. But it is illogical to believe that a talking squirrel does exist without proof. So even though it appears that both statements are just two sides of the same coin, they are not.

Another thread to stir the pot that will soon be closed. :D

Ohhhh Cisco!

The statement "There are no atheists in foxholes" is an aphorism used to argue that in times of extreme stress or fear, such as in war, all people will believe in, or hope for, a higher power.
The origin of the quotation is uncertain. U. S. Military Chaplain William Thomas Cummings may have said it in a field sermon during the Battle of Bataan in 1942.

The above gleaned from Wikipedia.

But atheists are on a mission and what we see here is a "toe in the water" and a very coy way of moving on to more "troubling thoughts" that they have with the believers.
Get prayer out of the schools, bibles out of motels, no crosses anywhere, and minimize any faith.

I have been spanked so many times even I can spot them.

I am slow, but I get there.

So?


I say what I said yesterday. I am an OLD teacher and I can spot a boy spoiling for a fight from thirty paces.


Do you feel better?


Does anyone?

I can't believe that anyone else believed that this statement was a FACT. I do believe like many sayings, it is a statement that is largely true. Is there anyone else out there that believed that this statement was intended as an absolute fact?

I didn't have a strict religious upbringing. On Sunday, anyone who felt like going to church went to church. Usually, it was one of my brothers and my sister who went. Then after our noontime meal, the whole family would go for a drive. I went to church with my brother once and didn't understand what it was all about, so I didn't continue going.

At nine years old I almost died from an asthma attack. I remember thinking that I was going to die. At that time it didn't occur to me to start thinking about anything except trying to get my next breath of air.

Years later I almost drowned while trying to swim in fresh water. I went under water 2 or 3 times. I struggled one last time to get to the surface and a very young boy threw me an inner tube (from an overhead bridge). He saved my life. Again: there was no time to think about anything other than trying to survive.

Twice I had loaded guns pointed at me, but I mostly thought about trying to convince them not to shoot me. And, luckily, I'm still here.

The bottom line: I don't think the threat of death will suddenly change a person. Most of the time there's no time to think about it. And even if there is time, the seeds of belief have to be planted very early in life.

:BigApplause:

Not sure if I understand the reason behind this thread. If, as the OP states, he is a searcher of truth, read post #13 and go to work...if not enough, I will be happy to supply some.

Seems to me, again, you prey on others beliefs for your entertainment, as you know there is no truth here....just fun for you in riling others.

How well you illustrate exactly and more to the point than I...
why in all rational thought would one adopt a position against English speaking squirrels?
or equally illogical, against a God who loves you and gave the life of a human-born son out of love?
there is nothing rational about either...perhaps a squirrel talks, or perhaps trillions of believers are wrong.

So there you have it. Having lived a long time I knew it came from WWII. I also have the intellect to know it wasn't to be taken literally. I think the "search for truth" is over.

Beyond that, this thread is in danger of becoming a discussion of competing religious beliefs which can be as acrimonious as the forbidden political discussions, and probably should be closed.

Before that, I will hasten to add that I am an active, believing Christian and prior to my disability was very active in a Southern Baptist Church.

I am more than willing to discuss religion, but I doubt that it will long be tolerated on TOTV.

God Bless you all.

Ohhhh Pancho!

I cannot help but love you, Kitty.


And I am generally a firm advocate of the scientific method.


I love being old-er and not held to anything.

I hold you to be an open-minded, gifted writer and decorator, great mother and wife, and a dear (though not often seen) friend.

I love you Ed Weissenbach and I think of you and your dear family so often.


I wish you all a sweet and blessed Christmas and a peaceful New Year.

Thank (insert name of diety or other word used to describe relief here), someone got the obscure reference. Illness and fatigue have caused me not to make a serious comment on this thread - in other words I am sick and tired of it. (where is that sarcastic icon Joe is advocating for?)

Back atcha beautiful lady!

Could this link explain the confusion.

Theists Vs. Atheists: Smarter? Healthier? Kinder? : Discovery News

I am going to do some research into atheism. Christians constantly insult my opinions so maybe I will be accepted there.

Any info would be appreciated via PM.

I know for a FACT that Christians love you.


I do.

Lou, that link took me to a picture of Santa Clause, who in or out of a foxhole I believe in.

Well, yes and no. In one way I feel better knowing that we still have some freedom of speech, at least up to this point. A fight takes two or more people who feel like fighting. But should we even call it fighting? Maybe it's arguing or discussing. And no one is compelled to stay on this thread if they don't like what it's about.

Just got a video sent from my request for understanding. Very informative.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mbef07a...%3Dmbef07aQtB8

About generalizations.
 

Well, I don't want to seem to be piling on, but I'm surprised to learn that you thought the generalization that there are no atheists in foxholes was intended to be taken literally. It was simply meant to express that many who denied there was a God were observed to pray earnestly for deliverance when under fire in combat.

You have to remember this about generalizations:

"No generalization is wholly true, not even this one."

Seems as though a statement not in agreement or different than posted/stated is clearly mis-interpreted as insults....which is an entitled opinion that helps validate a position being taken....however not what was intended by participants responding and very often a totally incorrect interpretation.

btk

It was not meant as a joke. Look at the explanation that was posted earlier that the phrase was believed to have been used by an Army Chaplain during a field sermon during the Battle of Bataan. If you are not familiar with that devastating battle during WWII, you might want to do a browser search and read up on it.

The phrase is most often used to express the belief of the speaker that all people seek a divine power when they are facing an extreme threat.

You might want to read the wikipedia entry about the phrase at There are no atheists in foxholes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The phrase is not to be taken literally.

.

No double meanings. No hidden message. No oblique or distorted message. Only what the words state.....noyhing more.

I am switching to the popcorn...:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

You have reversed the premise again. One does not adopt a position against English speaking squirrels, rather, one does not adopt a position for them. There is a world of difference in those statements.

Not sure if that analogy is apt. Maybe, better would be ask where the non-speaking squirrel came from let alone the proverbial talking one? Darwin and his followers do not really do it justice as the various species have had to come from somewhere whether or not you believe that a God tinkers with how the species come together.