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There was a topic heading, " New incentives" by Sandi which I posted a response to around noon today. Now the post is no where to be found. There were at least 5 or 6 responses. Has anyone seen anything like this happen before?

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Maybe TOTV is just like The Daily Sun and just publish what they want ! !

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I didn't remove the post but one of the other admins must have. I did see the post and it was linked to commercial advertising for homes on The Villages web site. TOTV does not allow commercial posts as we do offer paid banner advertising. The topic did fall into a gray area as I believe the post was not made by a commercial vendor. None the less, TOTV is open to advertising from "The Villages" or any other local business. It not free though, just as it's not free to us when we advertise TOTV on other mediums.

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There are all kinds of links to the Villages website throughout TOTV - maybe the TOTV name should be changed as it is an ad for the Villages.

Guess chacam was right.

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All I did was list the web address to the news letter so everyone could see the new deals. Come on guys.

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Removing a topic is not always a popular decision and we try to keep it to an absolute minimum. It's nothing personal. Running TOTV does not come free nor does the rather expensive new sever we had to purchase to keep TOTV speedy for all the members.

It's not a fair statement to make that we "only publish what we want." Anyone on TOTV is free to post anything they wish as long as it's not commercial, vulgar, offensive or generally in poor taste. No commercial posts are a rule that we've had in place since day one. Sometimes it's a judgment call.

My apologies if anyone was offended or confused by the removed topic.

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I encourage your discussion about this.And I would like to add to what Darrel has said. We have approached nearly all of the real estate companies in the area and have explained that advertising on TOTV is a good way to reach prospective home buyers. None of them have taken advantage of the opportunity. We have approached the Villages about using TOTV as an added tool to reach residents. They have declined.

We attempted to buy an ad in the Daily Sun and we were rejected.

We encourage all members and guests to posts topics and discuss whatever they wish. Even if it is a discussion about the administrators of this forum. Believe me, we are trying our best to make this a good community forum. The administrators have spent nearly $10,000 dollar of their own money setting it up and keeping it running. We have put in almost 5,000 hours in administration time.

The reason we have advertising is to help pay back some of the start up expense. To date, we have made nothing. Our advertising revenue is just enough to keep the forum going and has paid back not one penny of the startup expense. We hope someday to make some kind of profit.

Look at it from our point of view, and we will look at yours. We see that real estate advertising could be one of our biggest revenue producers. If the information can be posted at no cost, then why would anybody purchase an ad. We allow links to other Villages activities because we are a Villages forum. There is a line somewhere and we are trying to find it. Please be patient with us too. This is new and we want to do what is right.

BTW, we received several emails of compaint from members about the posting in question. I didn't even get a chance to see it myself, but I understand why it may have been removed.

I feel it unfair to compare us to the recent actions of the Daily Sun. We wanted to "purchase" advertising space and they rejected us. If this was a radio talk show, and a caller started listing homes for sale, the host would end the call. It's not censorship, it's just an effort to protect our investment. We may fall short in the eyes of some here, but we'll keep trying. Please don't compare this action, or us, to any other power plays that may abound.

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Well, it that's the case I understand.
Question is why hasn't what I believe is the same link on the thread : Bought new Home- promotion? been removed?
Seems there is a fine line about what is advertising and what is just info sharing. Maybe if we have information about links, such as the TV newsletter, that could be construed as advertising, they should be conveyed via personal messgaes.

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You are absolutely right. By the same measure, we should have removed it. Unfortunately, we didn't know about it and nobody reported it.

I hesitate to remove it now for fear that it will cause people to think we are censoring. We are not.

I ask the members: What should we do? In view of the fact that we desperately need advertising revenue, should we allow links to houses for sale? If we do allow links to real estate for sale, then every agent for 100 miles around will be posting here free of charge. You guys decide and we'll try to conform. We really do care.

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Host - I also noticed that the link referred to is posted under the subject "Bought new home - Promotion?" and also under the post titled "Courtyard Villa Question/Concern".

My personal opinion - Allowing links for commercial real estate should not be allowed since the well being and continuance of The Talk of the Villages website depends upon selling advertising space.

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IMHO, the web link should be kept. After all, I think we are all here to share info, help each other, learn from each other and have fun. Many of us who are hoping to relocate to TV can certainly use information regarding "deals" on homes.

TOTV will never get ad income from TV's Daily Sun. That's a given. But, that's no reason to withhold helpful information from our TOTV community.

The Villages will learn a lesson in the future. Let's not forget, many of us "young" retirees were quite vocal in our youth. Remember those Viet Nam War protests? As time goes on, more of us will be in TV. Maybe we'll bring more than our music. ::)

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I think you did the correct thing. Yes, this site is extremely informational and downright useful. That doesn't mean you should simply give the horse the bit and let it run so to speak. You have a right to draw limits. People need to remember that this is YOUR site and you can (and should) stop what you deem inappropriate.

It is extremely easy to find the site for The Villages' properties. You can even get there from the recreational site that is posted in TOTV -- it is all part of the management of The Villages' site. So, with minimal effort, people can get this information. There is absolutely no reason for you to post it for them.

I do see the problem, however. Realtor links cannot be mentioned. Links to other businesses seem to be okay. Restaurants are mentioned by name. Service people are mentioned by individual and company names along with phone numbers. These are all potential sources of revenue. It may be time for the moderators to get together and make some serious decisions about what can/cannot be mentioned and then give us members the guidelines.

No matter what, to compare your actions to what The Daily Sun did in not accepting your ad is not only not fair, it is downright wrong and, IMHO, on this side of mean! You didn't deserve that.

So, here's a big thank you for all you and your friends have provided to us. It is truly appreciated. :bigthumbsup:

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I also originally thought the topic was a 'plant' by a TV agent. It may not have been but it is the type of thing that the admins need to keep out.

It is a very fine line because there is ample opportunity for business to 'plant' on this forum as they do allow us to point out services and companies that do good work etc.

It's a tough job but the admins do it well IMHO.

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I understand and support your point. You are right, if the incentive program were allowed, who would pay for future ads? What I don't understand is, if this incentive program isn't allowed, then why wasn't the furniture giveaway topic pulled too??

::)

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Well, that's a good question. I guess becuase it is a topic that affects so many people and is of general interest. Plus it's unusual. I don't believe that the discussion in and of itself was an advertisement to purchase. It was an interesting adjunct to a special offer being made. I guess in the truest sense of the rule, it should have been pulled too, but we are going to have to judge each one and make a decision. I can see now that there will be times that we are not popular.

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I did not see the 'missing topic' and hence I'm not sure what it was about, though it sounds like something to do with selling homes. I am in full agreement with villages8house and redwitch; if TOTV keeps itself afloat with lots of volunteer hours from the administrators (many thanks, guys, great job!) and relies on advertising to cover costs, then TOTV isn't there to provide free advertising, which, IMHO, is very different from someone recommending a particular restaurant because of good food and/or service and/or its prices are reasonable--or possibly slamming a car dealership for their absolutely cavalier attitude on the part of its salespersons (a post I recall a month or two ago).

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First, thank you for starting this topic. When I received the email from the Administrators stating that a topic was pulled, I could not recall what it was. At least, now I know.

I have written to the Administrators in reference to a new plan they have to reach potential advertisers. It sounded good, cost was fair and I am hoping it gets off the ground. It would provide additional funds.

I am puzzled, why Real Estate Agents/Companies do not advertise on TOTV. The only thing I can think of, is they do not realize how many members of TOTV are looking for a home and that many residents of TV upgrade or go to a smaller home.

If I can figure it out, I think I will do a poll, as I am curious to know.

Hyacinth Bucket

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I’ve been away from the forum for a while today and returned to find this discussion on the “missing post.” I inadvertently left my partners here to take the heat.

You’re looking at the guy who removed that thread.

I try to read every post on the forum and think I keep up with them fairly well. Apparently, though, when I first read this one, it got by me. I don’t know why. I would have, and should have, pulled it the first time I read it. I slipped up.

However, a forum member complained and called it to my attention. I looked at it again, and agreed that it appeared commercial. Very commercial. I was miffed that I let it get by earlier and I removed the thread. Then I thanked the member who reported it to me.

This isn’t the first post I have pulled. I have seen blatantly commercial, self-serving posts. We sell space here for blatant commercialism. We like it, as a matter of fact. It is paid advertising. If the forum were to contain a lot of those messages trying to pass as unbiased posts, members would tire of them, and it would ruin the boards.

When members see an ad here they know it is an ad and they interpret it as an ad. When they see a post, they expect it to be from a fellow Villager recommending a business. (At times, too, that seems to go a little far, perhaps borderline, but we let them go by as a service to forum members.)

Other kinds of posts I have pulled are ones I viewed as unwarranted, belligerent personal attacks. I have communicated directly to the posters why I removed them.

I am remiss in this instance for not informing the poster. I regret that. I should have sent a note as a courtesy. It was a lapse that I hope I will not commit again and I apologize.

Let me return to the point, though. Most of the original post follows. If I were to see one similar, I would probably pull it, too. It appears blatantly commercial.

The post:
“SAVE anywhere from $ 12,000 to $90,000 on a select group of homes & villas.

* Patio Villas available with savings from $12,000 - $15,000
* Keys and Savannah Courtyard villas with savings from $20,000 - $40,000
* Designer homes with savings from $30,000 - $90,000
To qualify, simply reserve your new home or villa by December 31st.”

The next line was a link to a commercial home sales web site.

How you would have handled it if you were moderating a for-profit forum?

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I think there needs to be a distinction between news and advertising. The thread on the price reductions I considered to be news which generated a great deal of comment. People's experiences with vendors and restaurants is also news as it makes our lives as villages residents easier and more pleasant. The difference between advertising and news can be confusing, and I leave it up to the good judgement of the moderator to make the distinction. Reading your posts I believe that you truly want to be upfront, transparent and fair and make this website work.

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Thank you, Tony, for pulling this thread! This is a far cry from the recent post where someone was looking for a 1 BR 1 BA patio villa and another person responded with information about her own that she was selling. Without doubt this post that was pulled was commercial which has no business being on a thread but rather should be in a box on the right-hand side of the screen--and PAID FOR!

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Tony:

I think the original post was an abuse of this forum...as do a lot of others...but I question why, after making the decision to remove the original post and threads, YOU REPEAT THE ORIGINAL POST ALMOST VERBATIM???? DUH...Why did you remove it and then QUOTE it? You just RE-Posted it!!

You asked for a vote on whether or not to allow commercialism on this site. My vote is absolutely NOT. IF Properties of The Villages wish to advertise their homes for sale or their latest incentives then they need to PAY YOU for advertising space, just like someone using them as their Realtor must PAY THEM for THEIR services. This is only fair.

I would, however, like to suggest that there be a special forum for members to list items for sale in or to offer services to barter. There is a lot of talent here in TV and I would be willing to sew for someone who offered a service that I was in need of. Do you know what I mean? If someone has golf clubs for sale or a set of pots and pans...I personally think this would be a good way to do it. Perhaps you could charge a nominal fee for this service like say a $10.00 one time insertion fee. It would sure take away a lot of income to the Daily Sun Classifieds...who charge an arm and a leg for advertising and then won't let YOU put one in for TOTV. I would also like to see a Forum specifically for FSBO homes. This too could be a nominal one time insertion fee.

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First of all, look at the forum main page at

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/sm...p?action=forum

And you find topics covering what you have suggested.

Secondly I quoted the post verbatim in case there would be those here who would doubt my paraphrasing it.

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Tony - I'm all of a sudden a little confused. Is this a 'for profit' forum? If so, to whom do the profits accrue? I thought you guys were volunteer admins?

I really don't care either way but maybe a little explanation would be in order?

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Posted by: Talk Host
Insert Quote
Quote from: Peggy D on Today at 07:26:59 PM
"What I don't understand is, if this incentive program isn't allowed, then why wasn't the furniture giveaway topic pulled too??"


"Well, that's a good question. I guess becuase it is a topic that affects so many people and is of general interest. Plus it's unusual. I don't believe that the discussion in and of itself was an advertisement to purchase. It was an interesting adjunct to a special offer being made. I guess in the truest sense of the rule, it should have been pulled too, but we are going to have to judge each one and make a decision. I can see now that there will be times that we are not popular."

In regards to the above posts by Peggy D (question re: furniture giveaway) and TalkHosts' response, I think the reason it was decided to pull the posting regarding the discounted home prices is because it was payback for TV Daily Sun not accepting TOTV's request for an ad. An incentive to purchase a home is an incentive to purchase a home, be it in the form of a "furniture giveaway" or "discounted home prices".

That being said, this (and my earlier response) is my opinion. We were asked to give our opinion, and I have. HOWEVER, please note that I can agree to disagree and trust that TalkHost can as well. I contribute no administrative time to this site, and recognize that those that do are in charge of this site. I will live with their decision(s) no matter what, just as we have to live with the decision of TV Daily Sun not to accept TOTV's ad.

I still love you guys and appreciate all the time and effort you devote to this enjoyable site! :bigthumbsup:

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When I first saw the post, I actually did think it had been posted BY TV sales department.
I thought that odd, but what better place to get the word out but on TOTV.

I agree that there sould be no commercial ads except by paid sponsors. I do like the fact , however,that people post companies they have done business with in the past. That is one of the best things about this site.

This site is fantastic. Keep up the good work.

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I think if you check the forum index, you will find that both of the forums that you suggest, already exist.

Trade or barter services
Private individuals only. Tons of experience and talent here. Would you like to trade services with ohter Villages residents?

For Sale by Owner
Advertise your home for free in The Villages

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:agree: with Peggy D. I hope you admin people pull a profit soon, you sure deserve it!

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We should all understand that maintaining this website costs money, either out of the pockets of the Administrators/Owners of the site or from selling commercial advertising. This makes this site absolutely FREE to the members (like me and you) to just log-on and enjoy the exchange of information and use the FREE ads available to us when we need to sell our own home or golf cart or other personal items or find some service or product we're looking for. I think it's great that we members have this available to us FREE. If this site cannot sustain itself by selling commercial advertising, it may be that we members might be asked to pay a membership fee to participate. So - thank you "Talk of the Villages" for this FREE service to us - your members. I hope you continue to sell lots of advertising.

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Best Mickey,

I laid out in front of everybody my reason for the pulling the post, and yet you say I did it as payback.

How dare you call me a liar! I am truly insulted.

You may conduct your life life that way. I don't.

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Russ,

Yes this is a for-profit forum. Jan, Darrel and I are the partners. Profits would accrue to us.

We started out because Jan identified a need for Villagers to communicate with each other. He said, "They will love to talk on a forum."

He was right. We thought we could pay the bills with advertising, and even take out a few bob for our own bills.

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How could you think that was an ad? All it was is the latest information about the place everyone says they love. It was a link to the Village newsletter that gets sent out to thousands of potential buyers including myself. The link was helpful for anyone that did not receive it. Many people on this forum are looking for information about TV. This was to help them.

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How could you not think it was an ad?

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I thought it was very informative and would be appreciated my many people who viewed the forum and were considering a purchase. Put it back on and I’ll send you 10 bucks towards the ad fee since you think it WAS an ad.

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Okay, it wasn't an ad -- it was a copy of an ad with a direct link to the ad itself. Sheesh -- let's get lost in a definition.

If the moderators want to pull a post because someone used purple ink and one of them hates purple, I say that is their right (and I promise to not use purple ink!). The nice thing is I know they won't. If they pull something it is not because they disagree with the post but because they feel there is something truly "wrong" about the post. Otherwise, I think several previous posts would have been yanked 10 seconds after they were submitted. If they wanted to censor, it is pretty easy to set up a forum so that all posts are previewed by a moderator before they are approved for posting (a lot of work but very doable).

We have the right to disagree and even disapprove of an action taken by anyone here. That doesn't mean we have to resort to the 5-year-old is/is not mentality or start calling each other names or generally belittling another because their views are not your views.

Personally, I truly appreciate what Tony, Darrell and Jan have done for us. This is a great forum and I've learned a lot from it and, hopefully, will be able to make friends because of it.

And now for the test ... I said I wouldn't use purple, but didn't say a word about lime green or orange ;D

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I absolutely hate lime green.
I absolutely love orange.

You got me. I can't pull the green and save the orange.

;D

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This site is own by the people who set it up and keep it running, that said, this is not a public forum. The administrators (owners) allow us to visit and expose our opinions or exchange information with each other. It is their priviledge to administer the site any way they see fit, if any one does not like the way it is run, then they should not visit it.

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You guys are doing a great job and i hope you will someday make some $ - you deserve it after all the work you have done thanks this is really a great site If someone wants to post a questionable post START YOUR OWN FORUM then you can make the rules - i am very happy the way thinks are going and do not feel censored in anyway - again maybe i am not a salesperson with an hidden motive making posts

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Tony - I think it is fine that the admins pull some coin from the operation.

I was just confused because i thought i had read that the admins were a volunteer group.

Russ

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We're not suppose to be, but at present we are. ;D

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:agree: I personally think it is mean-spirited for anyone to criticize the motives, decisions or great work of the site hosts. Most of us are totally enjoying the site and you've made it possible for us at no cost! :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: