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-   -   Disturbing dilemma (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/disturbing-dilemma-143758/)

Guest 02-16-2015 05:59 PM

Disturbing dilemma
 
Having read many posts on this site I have come to some conclusions, or at least opinions.
There seems to be a widely held view that our government is disfuntional. I think that much of the reason for that is that the two parties not only hold diametrically opposed views on many issues, but think that anyone who holds the opposite view is misinformed, dangerous, and even possessing evil or anti American intent. This demonization of the opposition makes it very difficult, if not impossible, to work together reasonably or come to agreement or, that dirty word, compromise. While many decry this inaction, they inevitably blame it on "the other side". Reding the posts on this forum shows a similar attitude by many as our leaders possess, I/we are right, and the other side is wrong or more often, ignorant, or some other derogatory label. What the hell ever happened to civil discourse? What happened to decency and respect for differing opinions. What happened to trying to understand the reason that someone's opinion differs, and that it comes from a sincere belief that it will be for the greater good, even though one may differ on the probable outcome. This forum is a microcosm of the political world, unfortunately and it often isn't a pretty site (sp). The fact is that most elections, at least nationally as well as many local and state, are determined by people unlike those represented on this and other political forums. Most people aren't that into politics and have no interest in getting into nasty partisan debates, and thus never come to a forum like this. They listen to the candidates and many of them read about the candidates and the issues and try to make a reasoned decision on how they will vote. The people on this forum and others largely have no doubt how they will vote and no argument to the contrary will sway them. Knowing that they either parrot the party line, make fun of the other side, link to information that will support their viewpoint and make no effort to understand much less, be supportive of the other point of view. That, in my opinion, is what makes these attempts to make ones arguments on sites such as this an excercise in futility. Your posts may make you feel temporarily satisfied and even superior, but the reality is you are wasting your time, speaking of which, I have wasted far to much time typing this. Have a wonderful day and don't take yourself too seriously.

Guest 02-16-2015 06:04 PM

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 1013850)
Having read many posts on this site I have come to some conclusions, or at least opinions.
There seems to be a widely held view that our government is disfuntional. I think that much of the reason for that is that the two parties not only hold diametrically opposed views on many issues, but think that anyone who holds the opposite view is misinformed, dangerous, and even possessing evil or anti American intent. This demonization of the opposition makes it very difficult, if not impossible, to work together reasonably or come to agreement or, that dirty word, compromise. While many decry this inaction, they inevitably blame it on "the other side". Reding the posts on this forum shows a similar attitude by many as our leaders possess, I/we are right, and the other side is wrong or more often, ignorant, or some other derogatory label. What the hell ever happened to civil discourse? What happened to decency and respect for differing opinions. What happened to trying to understand the reason that someone's opinion differs, and that it comes from a sincere belief that it will be for the greater good, even though one may differ on the probable outcome. This forum is a microcosm of the political world, unfortunately and it often isn't a pretty site (sp). The fact is that most elections, at least nationally as well as many local and state, are determined by people unlike those represented on this and other political forums. Most people aren't that into politics and have no interest in getting into nasty partisan debates, and thus never come to a forum like this. They listen to the candidates and many of them read about the candidates and the issues and try to make a reasoned decision on how they will vote. The people on this forum and others largely have no doubt how they will vote and no argument to the contrary will sway them. Knowing that they either parrot the party line, make fun of the other side, link to information that will support their viewpoint and make no effort to understand much less, be supportive of the other point of view. That, in my opinion, is what makes these attempts to make ones arguments on sites such as this an excercise in futility. Your posts may make you feel temporarily satisfied and even superior, but the reality is you are wasting your time, speaking of which, I have wasted far to much time typing this. Have a wonderful day and don't take yourself too seriously.






Couldn't disagree more - the government is not dysfunctional.

Voters prefer to not have one Party in charge of the Executive AND legislative branches.

Nothing more.

Guest 02-16-2015 06:22 PM

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 1013850)
Having read many posts on this site I have come to some conclusions, or at least opinions.
There seems to be a widely held view that our government is disfuntional. I think that much of the reason for that is that the two parties not only hold diametrically opposed views on many issues, but think that anyone who holds the opposite view is misinformed, dangerous, and even possessing evil or anti American intent. This demonization of the opposition makes it very difficult, if not impossible, to work together reasonably or come to agreement or, that dirty word, compromise. While many decry this inaction, they inevitably blame it on "the other side". Reding the posts on this forum shows a similar attitude by many as our leaders possess, I/we are right, and the other side is wrong or more often, ignorant, or some other derogatory label. What the hell ever happened to civil discourse? What happened to decency and respect for differing opinions. What happened to trying to understand the reason that someone's opinion differs, and that it comes from a sincere belief that it will be for the greater good, even though one may differ on the probable outcome. This forum is a microcosm of the political world, unfortunately and it often isn't a pretty site (sp). The fact is that most elections, at least nationally as well as many local and state, are determined by people unlike those represented on this and other political forums. Most people aren't that into politics and have no interest in getting into nasty partisan debates, and thus never come to a forum like this. They listen to the candidates and many of them read about the candidates and the issues and try to make a reasoned decision on how they will vote. The people on this forum and others largely have no doubt how they will vote and no argument to the contrary will sway them. Knowing that they either parrot the party line, make fun of the other side, link to information that will support their viewpoint and make no effort to understand much less, be supportive of the other point of view. That, in my opinion, is what makes these attempts to make ones arguments on sites such as this an excercise in futility. Your posts may make you feel temporarily satisfied and even superior, but the reality is you are wasting your time, speaking of which, I have wasted far to much time typing this. Have a wonderful day and don't take yourself too seriously.


AS an avid and often poster on here and on the older forum for politics, I must say straight up, you make many good and powerful points.

I do not post here to feel good about my opinion.

I do think that BOTH sides operate in a very dysfunctional manner (example, they are all playing golf while "rome burns" or at least threatens to)

I enjoy politics..used to work in that field. I do NOT like the way it is done today...looking at these doggone poll numbers that people post is just frustrating as all get out.

This is not the only place that I discuss politics on but is the most frustrating and here is why.

Folks on here are my neighbors. The first political forum on here really began, as I recall it, as a debate on a horse racing issue that had come up and the host set up a special area for that debate. From that, the political forum began.

When it began, in my opinion, it was great. There were heated discussions HOWEVER, those debating came prepared with information they had looked up or read..those debating came prepared with backgrounds in various fields to share. We bantered and debated, but never...well mostly did not attack each other...and if one poster brought something up that sort of nullified what you THOUGHT was correct, you checked it out and oft times came back and said..hey, you were right.

For me, it was great....discussions with my neighbors, based on facts and research that we enjoyed doing, but still with the political barbing. I do not recall any of the polls like we see now. I do not recall many, there were certainly some, of the little one line barbs that are supposed to be rebuttals for well thought out ideas, whether from links or from the poster adding to it.

It sent me off to read and be better informed. It filled in some things that I was really weak on. It supplied me with sources I did not know even existed.

THEN....some others came on and ruined it and it was done away with.

I agree with you and suggest that those who come on here and simply add little barbs with no addition to anything should not be here..they should be gone. They THINK they are discussing but they are simply mouthing a few, and I mean A FEW, choice words they heard on their favorite show last night or read on their biased website.

I can tell you honestly that I KNOW "my side" is wrong just as much as the other side. I can tell you that I wish from the bottom of my heart there were others from the "other side" who had the moxie to read and challenge things without the meanspirited personal things aimed at candidates and challanged my side" to get more facts.

BUT they do not and will not...lazy ? Dumb ? Smug ? Not interested ? I do not know but they should not be here.

Long way to say that your point is well taken but there are those of us who enjoy good strong intelligent discussion of issues that face our country.

I think every american citizen reads some of the horrors we face today and search for some outlet to give their opinion, and I also think that most of them are open to learn things about whatever the issue is.

Guest 02-22-2015 12:42 PM

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 1013850)
Having read many posts on this site I have come to some conclusions, or at least opinions.
There seems to be a widely held view that our government is disfuntional. I think that much of the reason for that is that the two parties not only hold diametrically opposed views on many issues, but think that anyone who holds the opposite view is misinformed, dangerous, and even possessing evil or anti American intent. This demonization of the opposition makes it very difficult, if not impossible, to work together reasonably or come to agreement or, that dirty word, compromise. While many decry this inaction, they inevitably blame it on "the other side". Reding the posts on this forum shows a similar attitude by many as our leaders possess, I/we are right, and the other side is wrong or more often, ignorant, or some other derogatory label. What the hell ever happened to civil discourse? What happened to decency and respect for differing opinions. What happened to trying to understand the reason that someone's opinion differs, and that it comes from a sincere belief that it will be for the greater good, even though one may differ on the probable outcome. This forum is a microcosm of the political world, unfortunately and it often isn't a pretty site (sp). The fact is that most elections, at least nationally as well as many local and state, are determined by people unlike those represented on this and other political forums. Most people aren't that into politics and have no interest in getting into nasty partisan debates, and thus never come to a forum like this. They listen to the candidates and many of them read about the candidates and the issues and try to make a reasoned decision on how they will vote. The people on this forum and others largely have no doubt how they will vote and no argument to the contrary will sway them. Knowing that they either parrot the party line, make fun of the other side, link to information that will support their viewpoint and make no effort to understand much less, be supportive of the other point of view. That, in my opinion, is what makes these attempts to make ones arguments on sites such as this an excercise in futility. Your posts may make you feel temporarily satisfied and even superior, but the reality is you are wasting your time, speaking of which, I have wasted far to much time typing this. Have a wonderful day and don't take yourself too seriously.

The highlighlighted words above have finally satisfied my need to categorize why and how some folks post the way they do. And when they do not extract the reaction they seek they then turn to the application against the individual.

Demonization of the opposition......root cause of the problems.....and not just politically!!!!!

Guest 02-22-2015 01:16 PM

There once was a nice balance between the two parties (i.e conservative Democrats and /or liberal Republicans) However today we find a wider split wherein there are more liberal Democrats and more conservative Republicans.

What makes this even more damaging is that the majority party was captured by both Houses of Congress and the executive branch in 2008 and worse yet was as far left as one can get. Added to that was a president elect who's experiences were a result of being immersed in Alinsky tactics with the likes of Ayers Wright etc who made no secret of their hatred for America and in addition a Senate majority leader who assembled the"Berlin Wall "in his chambers.

So the left with support of the liberal media which represents 80+% of all news made the party of not the true holders of this title but by journalistic manipulation the Republican party as journalistic fact.

The Obama Democrats continue this same manipulation. The Republicans wanted and did return to the 60 vote rule as a good faith gesture but the liberal manipulation continues. so it seems reasonable to me to utilize the Reid re-invention nuclear option. so let the Republicans utilize it for passage of bills send them to Obama and see who is really the party of no.

Succinctly stated the left moved so far left that any attempt at compromise was waste of time. If you are negotiating and one side wants $1 million and your assessment is that the value is only $250,000 and the other side says well then we still want a $ 1 million what can you do?

The only way to fix the problem is to have a national referendum on term limits for all political offices but how are you going to get just one politician to make that proposal?

Guest 02-22-2015 01:22 PM

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 1017598)
The highlighlighted words above have finally satisfied my need to categorize why and how some folks post the way they do. And when they do not extract the reaction they seek they then turn to the application against the individual.

Demonization of the opposition......root cause of the problems.....and not just politically!!!!!

You only need listen to or read many of the discriptions of our President to realize how far demonization of the opposition has come. Many cant even speak of him without twisting their face up and spewing out the words like venom. It's not enough to point out their disagreement, they have to marginalize, and demonize him, call him unqualified, a Muslim, or un-American. Not that the left is without its irrational hatred as well, but it seems more visceral with this President.

Guest 02-22-2015 01:25 PM

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 1017616)
You only need listen to or read many of the discriptions of our President to realize how far demonization of the opposition has come. Many cant even speak of him without twisting their face up and spewing out the words like venom. It's not enough to point out their disagreement, they have to marginalize, and demonize him, call him unqualified, a Muslim, or un-American. Not that the left is without its irrational hatred as well, but it seems more visceral with this President.

For me it is not about the POTUS at all. Just about the man who happens to be pretending to be a USA President.

Guest 02-22-2015 02:04 PM

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 1017616)
You only need listen to or read many of the discriptions of our President to realize how far demonization of the opposition has come. Many cant even speak of him without twisting their face up and spewing out the words like venom. It's not enough to point out their disagreement, they have to marginalize, and demonize him, call him unqualified, a Muslim, or un-American. Not that the left is without its irrational hatred as well, but it seems more visceral with this President.

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 1017617)
For me it is not about the POTUS at all. Just about the man who happens to be pretending to be a USA President.

This is an excellent example of the demonization of the opposition.

Guest 02-22-2015 04:04 PM

Exactly
 
Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 1017633)
This is an excellent example of the demonization of the opposition.

I find the conservative opposition to not want to enter into any issue with a thought of perhaps listening to the other side, question the merits of the argument, then negotiate a compromise. It's all about hate for this president, twice elected, by a substantial American majority. Get over it for Gods sake!

Guest 02-22-2015 04:39 PM

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 1017617)
For me it is not about the POTUS at all. Just about the man who happens to be pretending to be a USA President.

Thank you for making my point.

Guest 02-23-2015 12:02 AM

Help me understand this demonization allegation

Do you mean all those who never said a good or nice thing about Bush were demonizing.

If not then not liking the current POTUS cannot be either.

Just looking for clarity.

Guest 02-23-2015 08:41 AM

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 1017866)
Help me understand this demonization allegation

Do you mean all those who never said a good or nice thing about Bush were demonizing.

If not then not liking the current POTUS cannot be either.

Just looking for clarity.

If you don't see a qualitative difference in the criticism and sometimes mocking of Bush, and the ugly visceral hatred and demonizing of Obama, I can't help you.

Guest 02-23-2015 09:19 AM

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 1017935)
If you don't see a qualitative difference in the criticism and sometimes mocking of Bush, and the ugly visceral hatred and demonizing of Obama, I can't help you.

And one has to wonder what the catalyst is for such hatred and demonizing way beyond any norms? What is so different about this President? Let's see, economy is better, wars not a factor, a good family man, concerned about the health of his citizens. Hmmm. What makes him so different?

Guest 02-23-2015 09:40 AM

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 1017935)
If you don't see a qualitative difference in the criticism and sometimes mocking of Bush, and the ugly visceral hatred and demonizing of Obama, I can't help you.


I was not looking for help of any sort.
I was 100% certain of what the answer would sound like and was not disappointed.
For many of you there is only one way to look at ANYTHING.
Thank you for making my point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guest 02-23-2015 09:43 AM

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 1017986)
I was not looking for help of any sort.
I was 100% certain of what the answer would sound like and was not disappointed.
For many of you there is only one way to look at ANYTHING.
Thank you for making my point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You should be looking for help. :a20:


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