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-   -   Service dogs and rentals (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/service-dogs-rentals-145387/)

missypie 02-28-2015 11:38 AM

Service dogs and rentals
 
So lets say I have a house to rent. I rent it out using lets say The Villages rental folks. I have a stipulation that there are to be no pets or smoking. The renters move in and then I find out that they have a dog living in the home. I am told the dog has to stay because it is a Service Animal and not a pet. I guess so it goes??

OpusX1 02-28-2015 11:55 AM

Yep.
You could ask them to leave and risk losing your house.
And there are checkers that are not going to rent but will ask you about service animals and if you hesitate they may sue for $10 or $20 thousand but you may stll have your house.

Miles42 02-28-2015 12:45 PM

Service dogs, what a joke. It is easy to get any dog certified as a so called service dog. In today's society everyone thinks they are entitled to do as they please with the property of others.

gerryann 02-28-2015 12:45 PM

I guess you'd have to let them stay due to the laws. But, so not nice of them to not let you know the circumstances.

I would hope that most folks in that situation (the renter) would look for pet friendly rentals only.

gerryann 02-28-2015 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miles42 (Post 1020869)
Service dogs, what a joke. It is easy to get any dog certified as a so called service dog. In today's society everyone thinks they are entitled to do as they please with the property of others.

You are right that it is easy....but don't assume that this dog is not a legitimate service dog. Maybe it is......however, it's still rude to not disclose before moving in. I'd be fuming if someone pulled that with me.

kansasr 02-28-2015 12:54 PM

Unless you own 3 or more single family houses, you aren't subject to the Fair Housing Amendments Act. And you'd certainly be within your rights to ask for proof of disability (given that this is a much more long term contract than, say, going into a supermarket with your service animal.) Regardless, I'd contact an attorney before doing anything!

graciegirl 02-28-2015 01:29 PM

Everyone knows I love animals but some people cannot be where animals are or where they have been because of allergies. I think that anyone who would hoodwink another in this manner is a not nice person. It just stinks.

Madelaine Amee 02-28-2015 02:56 PM

Speak to an attorney. The renter was very wrong not to release this information to you before taking up residence.

obxgal 02-28-2015 03:54 PM

Being you stipulated that there are to be no pets or smoking, and they brought in a dog, to me they went against the lease. I'd definitely speak to an attorney.

CassieInVa 02-28-2015 04:02 PM

At the very least you should be able to charge an additional cleaning fee if your place is normally pet free. We had to pay $300 cleaning fee on a pet friendly rental.

And I would ask to see confirmation that it is in fact, a service dog. Too many know that they can get away with it because proprietors and or homeowners are afraid of lawsuits. They should have found a pet friendly unit.

blueash 02-28-2015 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kansasr (Post 1020877)
Unless you own 3 or more single family houses, you aren't subject to the Fair Housing Amendments Act. And you'd certainly be within your rights to ask for proof of disability (given that this is a much more long term contract than, say, going into a supermarket with your service animal.) Regardless, I'd contact an attorney before doing anything!


Fair Housing Act and Amendments | Nolo.com

My understanding (not a lawyer) is that if you own 3 or fewer rental properties you further must not be using a broker to qualify as exempt. Additionally there are very stringent rules about what you can and cannot ask of a person who claims they require an animal as either a service or a comfort animal. As the OP clearly indicated that a broker was used, the full anti-discrimination regulations would apply regardless of the number of houses owned.

Frequently Asked Questions - Housing | Service Dog Central

bargee 02-28-2015 04:46 PM

Rentals
 
I would think that if you changed the word"pets"to "animals" you would be protected.

pmbinnj 02-28-2015 04:50 PM

For many years we owned beach properties at the Jersey shore. They were rented on a weekly basis and most times rented through a realtor. Twice the realtor called to ask if we'd allow a service dog; we declined due to severe allergies. Not sure the federal laws prohibiting discrimination in housing applies to a short-term vacation rental but both times the realtor said they don't want problems between renter and owner (their low commission is just not worth the headache). And only once in over a dozen years did we find a renter who had a dog in our rental house -- my allergies acted up in 5 minutes so we knew! Realtor told us to keep their deposit for extra cleaning. There are so many pet friendly house rentals, hotels, etc...so why be deceitful and not disclose the "service dog"?

OBXNana 02-28-2015 05:41 PM

We've dealt with "pet free" and "no pets" in NC. Pet Free is telling a perspective occupant there are no pets permitted in the property and is free of anything pet related that can cause allergy's or aggravate asthma. No pets is saying pets are not permitted. But, if an owner or an owners guest has a pet, there may have been animals in the house.

Nothing legal in the terms and only rule of thumb within many renting communities.

Phanatic Luvr 02-28-2015 05:49 PM

I do believe in Florida under the Fair Housing and the Americans with Disabilities Act, you are required to permit tenants with Service or Companion Dogs. You can however, if I am not mistaken, ask for a doctors letter stating the dog is needed. You don't want a lawsuit on your hands, it's just not worth it.

karostay 02-28-2015 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missypie (Post 1020842)
So lets say I have a house to rent. I rent it out using lets say The Villages rental folks. I have a stipulation that there are to be no pets or smoking. The renters move in and then I find out that they have a dog living in the home. I am told the dog has to stay because it is a Service Animal and not a pet. I guess so it goes??

Did you have a rental agreement that stipulated No Dogs
that was signed by the renters
Apparently they did not disclosed that they had a pet ADA or otherwise

dbussone 02-28-2015 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phanatic Luvr (Post 1021041)
I do believe in Florida under the Fair Housing and the Americans with Disabilities Act, you are required to permit tenants with Service or Companion Dogs. You can however, if I am not mistaken, ask for a doctors letter stating the dog is needed. You don't want a lawsuit on your hands, it's just not worth it.


You can also request to see the documentation provided by the verifying agency...which should provide a picture of the dog, the owner, and the type of certification.

missypie 02-28-2015 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karostay (Post 1021045)
Did you have a rental agreement that stipulated No Dogs
that was signed by the renters
Apparently they did not disclosed that they had a pet ADA or otherwise

Renter said we have no pets. Our service dog is necessary and is not considered a pet.

blueash 02-28-2015 06:30 PM

Let's be clear here for people who don't read the links.
A service animal is not classified as a pet, period. Therefore it is illegal to refuse to rent to a person with a service or comfort animal (rare exceptions) Allergies in the home owner or future renters does not change the law. The disabled person's need for a service animal takes legal priority over your allergies. You may NOT charge a pet cleaning fee and the animal is not a pet. If there are actual damages, those are recoverable just as they would be if they were created by a human.

The law is linked above. Perhaps the reason a prospective renter may not disclose their service animal is that it would result in not getting the unit with some other reason given when it really was the issue of an animal.

https://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/doc...heo2013-01.pdf

gerryann 02-28-2015 08:25 PM

Sometimes the laws really suck!! Whatever happened to just caring about fellow humans?

dbussone 02-28-2015 08:29 PM

I care about my fellow humans and their animals. I do not care about those who play upon my emotions without true cause.

graciegirl 02-28-2015 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbussone (Post 1021096)
I care about my fellow humans and their animals. I do not care about those who play upon my emotions without true cause.


I so very much agree.

sunnyatlast 02-28-2015 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerryann (Post 1021095)
Sometimes the laws really suck!! Whatever happened to just caring about fellow humans?

There's more and more disdain for and demonization of people who own property, and it's destroying this society. They act entitled to other people's property to use/abuse it as they please.

Ownership of property goes all the way back to the ten commandments, when people were commanded to not steal or covet others' property. But more and more people place themselves above such wisdom of Judeo-Christian belief and values.

One day they'll face their Creator and account for their lying, disrespect, and defiance. Till then all we can do is not vote for lawmakers who resent private property ownership and who write laws with loopholes that encourage and empower liars.

sunnyatlast 02-28-2015 10:37 PM

Here's an information page that mentions single-family rentals without broker:

NSAR Service Dog Certification - Certified Emotional Support Animals Are Entitled to Special Housing Rights

blueash 03-01-2015 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunnyatlast (Post 1021131)
There's more and more disdain for and demonization of people who own property, and it's destroying this society. They act entitled to other people's property to use/abuse it as they please.

Ownership of property goes all the way back to the ten commandments, when people were commanded to not steal or covet others' property. But more and more people place themselves above such wisdom of Judeo-Christian belief and values.

One day they'll face their Creator and account for their lying, disrespect, and defiance. Till then all we can do is not vote for lawmakers who resent private property ownership and who write laws with loopholes that encourage and empower liars.

You think the accommodation of disabled people by property owners will certainly lead to the downfall of civilization? If you read the link you provided, it clearly states that the service/comfort animal must be a non-threat to others and that any damages it causes are the responsibility of the animal owner to repair. So other than making life a little better for a person with a disability, I am not seeing your objection that this accommodation should result in divine retribution from a loving God. Are you suggesting that a disabled person who uses the law to get relief from a no-pet policy deserves to go to Hell?

graciegirl 03-01-2015 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 1021355)
You think the accommodation of disabled people by property owners will certainly lead to the downfall of civilization? If you read the link you provided, it clearly states that the service/comfort animal must be a non-threat to others and that any damages it causes are the responsibility of the animal owner to repair. So other than making life a little better for a person with a disability, I am not seeing your objection that this accommodation should result in divine retribution from a loving God. Are you suggesting that a disabled person who uses the law to get relief from a no-pet policy deserves to go to Hell?




I doubt that very much. And most disabled people do not want to be pitied or would ever take advantage of anyone for anything. It is challenging enough to have something that isn't working right and usually people who are disabled are very sensitive and caring. But people can and do take advantage of laws made to help others. Sadly that happens. We ALL need to be respected.

karostay 03-01-2015 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missypie (Post 1021060)
Renter said we have no pets. Our service dog is necessary and is not considered a pet.

These renters were by no means upfront but underhanded
Did not disclose the situation

Why call a Lawyer

Call the Villages Hometown Rental
I would be interest in what they have to say
I'm willing to bet they have had to address this very issue The Villages leaves no stone un turned
and being the Villages may have your answer

dirtbanker 03-01-2015 12:35 PM

The renter definitely is a low life sneak. Don't waste your money on lawyer, just get the place professionally cleaned and deduct the money from their security deposit. I assume this is a short term rental and the people will be gone before an attorney would be able to accomplish anything. Change the wording in your lease to read "no pets or animals of any kind".

blueash 03-01-2015 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtbanker (Post 1021398)
The renter definitely is a low life sneak. Don't waste your money on lawyer, just get the place professionally cleaned and deduct the money from their security deposit. I assume this is a short term rental and the people will be gone before an attorney would be able to accomplish anything. Change the wording in your lease to read "no pets or animals of any kind".

Which changes exactly nothing. Service and comfort animals are protected by law from whatever language you put in your agreement. Why is this so difficult for some to understand? If you think that the service or comfort animal is not really providing a service to the rentee and that they have deceived you, there are very specific questions and documents you may request, and nothing beyond those specific questions and documents. The law is there to protect the less fortunate from people who would otherwise discriminate against them. Apparently many on this thread.

missypie 03-01-2015 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karostay (Post 1021385)
These renters were by no means upfront but underhanded
Did not disclose the situation

Why call a Lawyer

Call the Villages Hometown Rental
I would be interest in what they have to say
I'm willing to bet they have had to address this very issue The Villages leaves no stone un turned
and being the Villages may have your answer

This was the first time that this situation came up.

graciegirl 03-01-2015 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 1021448)
Which changes exactly nothing. Service and comfort animals are protected by law from whatever language you put in your agreement. Why is this so difficult for some to understand? If you think that the service or comfort animal is not really providing a service to the rentee and that they have deceived you, there are very specific questions and documents you may request, and nothing beyond those specific questions and documents. The law is there to protect the less fortunate from people who would otherwise discriminate against them. Apparently many on this thread.

People may be handicapped but they still have their pride and their ethics. There are many homes that rent to dogs. One can be on both sides of this issue you know. not just one or the other. There needs to be protections in law for both sides or people will be abused and people will abuse..

dirtbanker 03-01-2015 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 1021448)
Which changes exactly nothing. Service and comfort animals are protected by law from whatever language you put in your agreement. Why is this so difficult for some to understand? If you think that the service or comfort animal is not really providing a service to the rentee and that they have deceived you, there are very specific questions and documents you may request, and nothing beyond those specific questions and documents. The law is there to protect the less fortunate from people who would otherwise discriminate against them. Apparently many on this thread.

The home being rented is not a public place. I would toss them out of my home in a heartbeat! Not because they are disabled, but because they were low life sneaks. I am not discriminating against anyone, nor am I giving anyone preferential treatment, based on disabilities. Comfort animal?? If you are not comfortable without your animal then you should make sure that animal is not a problem toward the comfort of others (including the person you are renting from). Less fortunate? They might be better off than the many on this thread you have accused of discriminating. I believe the advise I offered was fair to all involved, if you have better suggestion lets hear it. If you just want to talk about world peace throw on a pageant dress.

sunnyatlast 03-01-2015 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 1021355)
You think the accommodation of disabled people by property owners will certainly lead to the downfall of civilization? If you read the link you provided, it clearly states that the service/comfort animal must be a non-threat to others and that any damages it causes are the responsibility of the animal owner to repair. So other than making life a little better for a person with a disability, I am not seeing your objection that this accommodation should result in divine retribution from a loving God. Are you suggesting that a disabled person who uses the law to get relief from a no-pet policy deserves to go to Hell?

So purposeful in missing my point about a growing trend of disdain for private property ownership and lawmakers who write loopholes to enable and empower liars who abuse the needed accommodation for disabled people!

Miles42 03-01-2015 03:12 PM

My point is the so called service animal is a ruse for some folks that seem to think they are entitled to take their dog any where they please without any thought of others.

redwitch 03-01-2015 03:20 PM

Dirt biker, you're missing the point. While the renter was underhanded and sneaky in the way the animal was mentioned, legally there is nothing the OP can do. Had the Op been renting out the property directly, she could have refused to allow the dog into the home provided she did not own more than three residential properties. Since she used an agency, she has to allow the dog by law. Hometown Properties could have asked the renter to prove the dog was in fact an emotional support animal (comfort animals are NOT considered emotional support animals but, if proven, the animal stays with no additional cleaning fee or pet deposit allowed. Any damage caused by the animal should be paid by the renter but extra cleaning to remove pet hair would not be covered. This is the law according to the FHAA, Section 205.

For an animal to be considered an emotional support animal, the handler must provide a letter from their therapist stating that the handler is their patient and that part of the necessary treatment is the use of an emotional support animal. Details need not be provided nor does the handler need to show any training the animal may have. Since these animals are not considered pets, pet or animal security deposits are not allowed.

For some people, these animals are very necessary. They have been shown to assist tremendously with PTSD situations for example. However, there are some people abusing the system because they don't want to leave their pet behind. These people should be ashamed of themselves. To me, it is the equivalent of parking in a handicapped spot to run into a store. You will probably get away with it, but it is dead wrong and hurts those with a true need.

dirtbanker 03-01-2015 03:41 PM

Redwitch, Thanks for sharing your opinion.

I don't care what the law states, It does not relieve the renter of acting in an ethical manner. There are rental homes that allow dogs, and the renter should have chosen one of those homes if they wish to bring their dog with them. Just because you have a need for a service dog does not mean you get to be excused for acting low life sneaky. This is someone's home, that someone might have an allergy or just a strong dislike to animal scents.

Florida bill would make bogus service-animal claims illegal | www.mypalmbeachpost.com

gomoho 03-01-2015 04:10 PM

My thinking is anyone that has a LEGITIMATE service animal is either going to look for a dog friendly rental or at the very least be up front with the owner and ask if this would be a problem.

Sandtrap328 03-01-2015 04:12 PM

The "service animal" being talked about THIS TIME is a dog. What if the renter had a pot-belly pig or a goat for a comfort animal (service animal that provides comfort)?

Airlines have been required to allow pot-belly pigs and miniature horses in the passenger cabin as comfort animals.

graciegirl 03-01-2015 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328 (Post 1021512)
The "service animal" being talked about THIS TIME is a dog. What if the renter had a pot-belly pig or a goat for a comfort animal (service animal that provides comfort)?

Airlines have been required to allow pot-belly pigs and miniature horses in the passenger cabin as comfort animals.


I am just sitting here shaking my head.

Sandtrap328 03-01-2015 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1021514)
I am just sitting here shaking my head.

Not too many years ago, a passenger in first class had a pot-belly pig as their comfort animal. The pig had not flown before and when the plane started taxiing down the runway, the pig became terrified and began running up and down the aisle squealing and defecating all around first class.

The plane had to be brought back to the gate, passengers disembarked (gladly, probably) and a new plane brought in for service.

Same thing happened with a miniature horse one time.

...and some people don't like flying on planes with children!


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