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-   -   Plotted where Villages sinkholes have occurred (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/plotted-where-villages-sinkholes-have-occurred-155945/)

VillagerFrog58 06-15-2015 10:04 AM

Plotted where Villages sinkholes have occurred
 
1 Attachment(s)
I have been a resident of the Villages for only a few years. Using the news releases and postings on this website, I got the elevation chart from the Sumter county website and overlayed (using google maps) the roads of the villages. From that, I put a yellow dot where I have record of past sinkholes; whether big ones or little ones. Using Google earth (which has plotted every road in the Villages) and the elevation they provide, I put the elevation of that area by the yellow dot. Disregarding two areas where sinkholes occurred because of retention pond lining issues, I have 8 others as shown. What I found (though absolutely unscientific) is that of the 8 that I know of, were all below 84 feet in elevation, with the lowest being at 63 ft. There are portions of the Villages where the elevation is much higher... all the way up to 140 feet. No sinkholes have occurred in those areas. So.. I'm thinking that the more elevation / ground you have under you, the lesser the probability of a sinkhole occurring. Anyhow, I'm just sharing for those that may be interested. And BTW, if I am missing any locations from the past, just post it's location and date and I will add to the chart.

VillagerFrog58 06-15-2015 10:10 AM

Here are some of the post articles used for mapping
 
5 Attachment(s)
Here five of the recent ones that I have.

villagetinker 06-15-2015 10:35 AM

Wow, this is impressive. Now I do not recall the details, but there was some talk among the neighbors of a sinkhole near the western end of yearling way, you have the one near the eastern end.

VillagerFrog58 06-15-2015 10:43 AM

Yearling way....
 
Villagetinker, the one on the eastern end of Yearling way is actually up on the next street on 1906 and 1912 Ussepa Oaks Lane located in the Village of
Pinnelas. This was the sinkhole on the new houses that occurred before they were sold and they had to be fixed by the developer before they could be sold.

If you have any documentation on the one on the western edge, just let me know.

VillagerFrog58 06-15-2015 10:47 AM

The one on the eastern end of yearling is actually on Ussepa Oaks Lane
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by villagetinker (Post 1074526)
Wow, this is impressive. Now I do not recall the details, but there was some talk among the neighbors of a sinkhole near the western end of yearling way, you have the one near the eastern end.

In the article attached, there was a sinkhole affecting 2 new houses before they were sold that had to be repaired by the developer. If you have more specifics on the western side of Yearling.....

justjim 06-15-2015 11:03 AM

OP, interesting information and as you mentioned----unscientific. When we first retired, we built a home in Royal Highlands which is about 12 miles south of Leesburg. The very first sinkhole was a large one and at the highest elevation in the subdivision. ???? Not having any education or training on this subject matter, I don't know what this means or what your poll of sinkholes in TV means either.

Perhaps someone with "knowledge" of sinkholes can comment. All I know, and have read, a sinkhole can happen just about anywhere in Florida---especially Central Florida.

sunnyatlast 06-15-2015 11:05 AM

Looking around for more info on whether higher elevation is protective against sinkholes here in FL, I read this article from FL Geological Survey, with this excerpt:
"....In general, areas of the state where limestone is close to surface, or areas with deeper limestone but with a conducive configuration of water table elevation, stratigraphy, and aquifer characteristics have increased sinkhole activity....."
The entire article is instructive:

Facts about sinkholes in Florida - WFLA News Channel 8

RickeyD 06-15-2015 11:17 AM

We looked at a couple of houses in Lake Deaton that had small sinkholes repaired. This included the house with the sinkhole and the adjacent houses. The discount was minimal and since you need to disclose any knowledge of a sinkhole on the property you want to insure to the insurer it didn't seem to be a worthwhile discount, nor worth loosing sleep over. We opted out. BTW, the houses in question were at the bottom of a long hill, about the same elevation as a couple of ponds.

joldnol 06-15-2015 12:56 PM

They just plugged one in Dunedin on the north side of Hillsborough. They were filling it with concrete last week....one of the houses that haven't been sold yet.....approximately 150 ft West from Viola and Hillsborough.

LeeM 06-16-2015 01:23 PM

We are visiting soon and looking to buy so I wondered about the sinkhole issue. This is very helpful. Thank you.

rubicon 06-16-2015 01:43 PM

To me, predicting sinkholes is like predicting 100 year floods.

dewilson58 06-16-2015 02:04 PM

Thanks Frogger.................I enjoyed the information.

EnglishJW 06-16-2015 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VillagerFrog58 (Post 1074521)
I have been a resident of the Villages for only a few years. Using the news releases and postings on this website, I got the elevation chart from the Sumter county website and overlayed (using google maps) the roads of the villages. From that, I put a yellow dot where I have record of past sinkholes; whether big ones or little ones. Using Google earth (which has plotted every road in the Villages) and the elevation they provide, I put the elevation of that area by the yellow dot. Disregarding two areas where sinkholes occurred because of retention pond lining issues, I have 8 others as shown. What I found (though absolutely unscientific) is that of the 8 that I know of, were all below 84 feet in elevation, with the lowest being at 63 ft. There are portions of the Villages where the elevation is much higher... all the way up to 140 feet. No sinkholes have occurred in those areas. So.. I'm thinking that the more elevation / ground you have under you, the lesser the probability of a sinkhole occurring. Anyhow, I'm just sharing for those that may be interested. And BTW, if I am missing any locations from the past, just post it's location and date and I will add to the chart.

Thanks for taking the time and making the effort to do this. More importantly, thanks for sharing it. We looked at one the new houses that had a repaired sinkhole. Our villages agent informed us about it and we moved on.

Erika 06-16-2015 03:05 PM

Plotted where Villages sinkholes have occurred
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by VillagerFrog58 (Post 1074521)
I have been a resident of the Villages for only a few years. Using the news releases and postings on this website, I got the elevation chart from the Sumter county website and overlayed (using google maps) the roads of the villages. From that, I put a yellow dot where I have record of past sinkholes; whether big ones or little ones. Using Google earth (which has plotted every road in the Villages) and the elevation they provide, I put the elevation of that area by the yellow dot. Disregarding two areas where sinkholes occurred because of retention pond lining issues, I have 8 others as shown. What I found (though absolutely unscientific) is that of the 8 that I know of, were all below 84 feet in elevation, with the lowest being at 63 ft. There are portions of the Villages where the elevation is much higher... all the way up to 140 feet. No sinkholes have occurred in those areas. So.. I'm thinking that the more elevation / ground you have under you, the lesser the probability of a sinkhole occurring. Anyhow, I'm just sharing for those that may be interested. And BTW, if I am missing any locations from the past, just post it's location and date and I will add to the chart.

Thank you for this info. Unfortunately, I could not read the research as nothing happened when I clicked on it. Please tell me how I can determine the elevation of a property in which I am interested in buying. Do the sales reps have info regarding that question?

justjim 06-16-2015 04:41 PM

I would like an experenced Geologist give us his/her take on if there is any correlation between sinkholes and elevation level of your property. I am skeptical.

paulascorpio 06-16-2015 10:16 PM

UGH.......We are only 80 - 90 feet!

dewilson58 06-16-2015 10:22 PM

The OP is sharing his/her analysis given some maps and info......not as an expert, just some info......a grain of salt. I enjoyed the info, but not in the panic mode

Jeff/Tracy 06-17-2015 04:50 AM

That was a lot of work OP.. thank you for sharing! I have a question.. what if I take my morning coffee outside right now, walk around my house and find a sink hole.. who should I call? I do know who to call in most situations, this one.. I would have no clue.

Villager Joyce 06-17-2015 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff/Tracy (Post 1075297)
That was a lot of work OP.. thank you for sharing! I have a question.. what if I take my morning coffee outside right now, walk around my house and find a sink hole.. who should I call? I do know who to call in most situations, this one.. I would have no clue.

First, I would get my cat out of the house.
Make calls in this order:
911
Insurance agent
My attorney
My husband is an adult. He is on his own.

mulligan 06-17-2015 05:02 AM

I think that the current elevation is not as important as the difference between the elevation of the unimproved land vs. the current elevation. How close did they scrape to the bedrock. The presence of more dirt above the bedrock will more evenly distribute any weight placed on the surface. Look up "angle of repose".

Villager Joyce 06-17-2015 05:22 AM

There have been sinkholes in clermont. Elevation between 100 and 300.

graciegirl 06-17-2015 05:45 AM

On this map there are some areas where there are few or no sinkholes. Wonder what differs there.

http://www.riskmanagementmonitor.com...0.12.53-AM.png

shcisamax 06-17-2015 06:42 AM

This is fabulous. Thank you for taking the time to try to glean information that isn't readily available. Way cool.

graciegirl 06-17-2015 07:29 AM

More sinkhole information;


sinkhole map of sumter county florida - Bing Images
http://strangesounds.org/wp-content/...ap-geology.jpg

Topspinmo 06-17-2015 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1075306)
You would think that some fancy geologist would have come to the conclusion the OP did..

Bet there are more factors than that.

Can't predict sinkholes anymore than they can predict earthquakes (except were they are fracking). IMO it depends on the cavern size under and area and how water drains and erosion effects ground over the cavern itself. I also think small sink hole are some time man made due to under ground water leaks or drainage problems. It also make sense to me that if you on hill the water will run more to the bottom and seep more on the low area which IMO would increase the odds of sinkhole?

You would think if they can find oil they could find large caverns under property and predict sinkhole may occur. But, IMO that would rule out have the land in Florida :rant-rave:

graciegirl 06-17-2015 07:31 AM

Surprisingly, Sumter isn't on this list.
 
Florida's Top 10 Sinkhole-Prone Counties

TNLAKEPANDA 06-17-2015 07:59 AM

Survey
 
I you had a sinkhole that was not covered by insurance and it was going to cost several hounded thousand dollars to repair what would you do?

A. Fill the with water and stock and it calling it a pond.

B. Take out a loan and make the repairs

C. Just walk away

graciegirl 06-17-2015 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNLAKEPANDA (Post 1075349)
I you had a sinkhole that was not covered by insurance and it was going to cost several hounded thousand dollars to repair what would you do?

A. Fill the with water and stock and it calling it a pond.

B. Take out a loan and make the repairs

C. Just walk away



Seems that would be catastrophic and that is covered by homeowners insurance.

This is an ad, but has some good info;

Sinkhole vs. Catastrophic Ground Coverage Collapse

justjim 06-17-2015 09:26 AM

Don't want to "pirate" this thread (OP I too appreciate your work) wasn't there a group in TV working on a possible "self insured entity" for residents of the Villages to sort of take up the slack where insurance is lacking? Anybody know if there has been any progress on this concept? Sinkhole---always going to happen to somebody else that's what we think.

Warren Kiefer 06-17-2015 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VillagerFrog58 (Post 1074521)
I have been a resident of the Villages for only a few years. Using the news releases and postings on this website, I got the elevation chart from the Sumter county website and overlayed (using google maps) the roads of the villages. From that, I put a yellow dot where I have record of past sinkholes; whether big ones or little ones. Using Google earth (which has plotted every road in the Villages) and the elevation they provide, I put the elevation of that area by the yellow dot. Disregarding two areas where sinkholes occurred because of retention pond lining issues, I have 8 others as shown. What I found (though absolutely unscientific) is that of the 8 that I know of, were all below 84 feet in elevation, with the lowest being at 63 ft. There are portions of the Villages where the elevation is much higher... all the way up to 140 feet. No sinkholes have occurred in those areas. So.. I'm thinking that the more elevation / ground you have under you, the lesser the probability of a sinkhole occurring. Anyhow, I'm just sharing for those that may be interested. And BTW, if I am missing any locations from the past, just post it's location and date and I will add to the chart.

Your information while not scientific, is right on the mark. The closer the sub limestone strata is to the surface, the more likely of sinkholes. Over many many years the limestone dissolves leaving a cavity. As the water table that normally fills the cavity, is depleted, and especially when the upper surface becomes wet and saturated from rains, the upper surface falls into the cavity. You then have a sinkhole.

LeeM 06-18-2015 12:13 AM

So how do you figure out the elevation?

TNLAKEPANDA 06-18-2015 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1075356)
Seems that would be catastrophic and that is covered by homeowners insurance.

This is an ad, but has some good info;

Sinkhole vs. Catastrophic Ground Coverage Collapse

If there's no structural damage to the home there is no coverage. You could have a large sinkhole on your property that has not damage to your home.

rustyp 07-07-2015 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VillagerFrog58 (Post 1074521)
I have been a resident of the Villages for only a few years. Using the news releases and postings on this website, I got the elevation chart from the Sumter county website and overlayed (using google maps) the roads of the villages. From that, I put a yellow dot where I have record of past sinkholes; whether big ones or little ones. Using Google earth (which has plotted every road in the Villages) and the elevation they provide, I put the elevation of that area by the yellow dot. Disregarding two areas where sinkholes occurred because of retention pond lining issues, I have 8 others as shown. What I found (though absolutely unscientific) is that of the 8 that I know of, were all below 84 feet in elevation, with the lowest being at 63 ft. There are portions of the Villages where the elevation is much higher... all the way up to 140 feet. No sinkholes have occurred in those areas. So.. I'm thinking that the more elevation / ground you have under you, the lesser the probability of a sinkhole occurring. Anyhow, I'm just sharing for those that may be interested. And BTW, if I am missing any locations from the past, just post it's location and date and I will add to the chart.


Two more sinkholes to add to the chart. Ashland and Sabel Chase.

VillagerFrog58 07-07-2015 04:01 PM

Updated sinkhole map Jul 7th with Ashland & Sabal Chase added
 
1 Attachment(s)
Added the 2 new ones.
July - Village of Ashland 2144 Ellison Place
June - Village of Sabal Chase 1637 Homer Ave

LynnWM158 07-28-2015 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VillagerFrog58 (Post 1074521)
I have been a resident of the Villages for only a few years. Using the news releases and postings on this website, I got the elevation chart from the Sumter county website and overlayed (using google maps) the roads of the villages. From that, I put a yellow dot where I have record of past sinkholes; whether big ones or little ones. Using Google earth (which has plotted every road in the Villages) and the elevation they provide, I put the elevation of that area by the yellow dot. Disregarding two areas where sinkholes occurred because of retention pond lining issues, I have 8 others as shown. What I found (though absolutely unscientific) is that of the 8 that I know of, were all below 84 feet in elevation, with the lowest being at 63 ft. There are portions of the Villages where the elevation is much higher... all the way up to 140 feet. No sinkholes have occurred in those areas. So.. I'm thinking that the more elevation / ground you have under you, the lesser the probability of a sinkhole occurring. Anyhow, I'm just sharing for those that may be interested. And BTW, if I am missing any locations from the past, just post it's location and date and I will add to the chart.

Yikes, my house appears to be sitting on a sinkhole. Would you mind naming the street off Hillsboro and what appears to be Neighborly Way?

VillagerFrog58 07-28-2015 10:01 AM

I looked at my pdf that I posted and I don't see any by Hillsboro by Neighborly Way. Are you perhaps mistaken? Also, remember that the numbers posted are NOT the depth of the sinkhole but the elevation of the land where the sinkhole occurred.

VillagerFrog58 08-28-2015 09:30 AM

Added 2 more reported sinkholes
 
3 Attachment(s)
Added the two reported at Fulcrum Place and Zydeco Court in Dunedin and also Sunset Pointe at the Hibiscus Rec Center.

graciegirl 08-28-2015 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justjim (Post 1074536)
OP, interesting information and as you mentioned----unscientific. When we first retired, we built a home in Royal Highlands which is about 12 miles south of Leesburg. The very first sinkhole was a large one and at the highest elevation in the subdivision. ???? Not having any education or training on this subject matter, I don't know what this means or what your poll of sinkholes in TV means either.

Perhaps someone with "knowledge" of sinkholes can comment. All I know, and have read, a sinkhole can happen just about anywhere in Florida---especially Central Florida.






I agree with justjim.


What is the purpose of this? Sinkholes are random and do not occur any more here in The Villages than in surrounding areas.


Sinkholes make people frightened and so far there is no way to predict or protect people from where they will happen....much the same as hurricanes.

Taltarzac725 08-28-2015 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VillagerFrog58 (Post 1105588)
Added the two reported at Fulcrum Place and Zydeco Court in Dunedin and also Sunset Pointe at the Hibiscus Rec Center.

Thanks for adding this information. Sinkholes, from USGS Water-Science School http://www.thevillagesfloridabook.co...-need-to-know/

outlaw 08-28-2015 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1105606)
I agree with justjim.


What is the purpose of this? Sinkholes are random and do not occur any more here in The Villages than in surrounding areas.


Sinkholes make people frightened and so far there is no way to predict or protect people from where they will happen....much the same as hurricanes.

Knowledge is power.


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