Income Redistrubution
 

"Milton Friedman Free to Choose Series Volume 5 Created equal"

"The idea that everyone should be equal in income, level of living, in what he has.

The idea that the economic race should be so arranged that everyone ends the race at the same time, rather than everyone starts at the beginning at the same time.

This concept raises a very serious problem for Freedom. It is clearly in conflict with it, since it requires that the Freedom of Some be restricted in order to provide greater benefits to others.

The Society that puts Equality before Freedom will end up with neither. The Society that puts Freedom before Equality will end up with a greater measure of Both."

The advance of the human race will come to a screeching halt!!!
 

If you ever ran a business and decided you would depart from pay for performance to everybody gets the same whether they put forth effrot or not....you will soon find those who do put forth the extra effort to be distinguished from the free loaders will eventually throw up their hands and conclude why put forth the effort when all one needs to do is be present.

So those of the ilk who support taking what I have busted my :cus: for all these years be distributed to those who have not earned their first dollar?

The concept is totally ridiculous, it and anybody who is in favor of it, can only be a part of the do nothing crowd with their hand out, giggling and laughing about the hose job they are about to pull off.

The world order has been one of haves and have nots for centuries. So why does some wild eyed special interest group here in the USA think they have a novel solution.

I guess the permissive, pacifist, don't hurt anybody's feelings don't want to be looked upon in anything but a pleasant light.

Me.....I advocate if you didn't do anything to earn it you can go whistle dixie
.....I don't care what you don't have....you earned it!!!!!

BTK:cus:

I remember Friedman's PBS series "Free to Choose" very well. It made a lot of sense then and just as much today. PBS would do us a great service and replay it. I am not holding my breath.

Friedman has it right. "Spread the Wealth" is a class warfare policy that will further erode the stengths of our system - innovation, hard work and risk taking. In addition, the plan to increase business taxes is directly contratictory to Mr. Obam's stated objectives to help the middle class and create jobs. The increase in business taxes, and therefor business costs, will make U.S. businesses less competitive in the world. Many competing countries offer much lower tax rates to businesses. Since business competition is not just in the U.S., but world wide (the world is flat), U.S. businesses will be at disadvantage. The result will be the exact opposite of the stated goal to help the U.S. middle class. It will result in less jobs and lower wages. Not a plan to help the middle class. The desire to spread the wealth will only reduce the wealth for all. It seems clear that the real objective is to take from those that have earned it through years of preparation and effort and give it to those that have not made that effort for whatever reason. I heard a very good quote the other day the describes the Obam economic and tax plan very accurately. Unlike Reagan's trickle down economics, Oboma's plan is "trickle up poverty". Trickle down economics expands the pie for all, while tickle up poverty shrinks the pie.

number6 You can find the entire 1980's and the updated 90's series on the ideachannel.com

That's right! It REDUCES our economic system to the LOWEST COMMONN DENOMINATOR

Have you looked at the pie lately.....:1rotfl::1rotfl:

Trickle Down economics has failed.

The pie is smaller because of a government attempt to make life "fair" for those on the bottom. Changing lending laws to make loans of all types available to people who shouldn't have gotten them in the first place caused the mess we're in. The laws were changed because the conservatives in Congress gave in to the Liberals to pacify them and shut them up about their "class wars" bashing.

Once the laws were changed they were open to everyone to say "me too, I'll take some of that easy money. We gave in to giving people who didn't earn the right to low interest loans and opened Pandora's box.

Has anyone besides me been amazed that each and every problem in this country ...without apparent execption, can be boiled down to a liberal/democratic mistake or conspiricy.
The revelation that that conservatives/republicans are infallable (according to a couple of folks here) has been quite enightening for me. Human nature being what it is, I was under the mistaken belief that we are all responsible for our own behaviors and messes, and we ALL can and are mistaken at times. We should also be "men enough" (sorry ladies...generic term) to know when we or those we support make mistakes.
Rather than some histrionic repetitious panic strewn blame game that smacks of the obvious desperation that drives it, learning the best of what works, compromising when appropriate, and using some intelligent thought rather than pure propaganda would seem to benifit us as a people more.

Give me a break...

Just exactly how many poor people were given loans that shouldn't have them? How many speculators were involved? Surely the million dollar condo in Florida were not being purchased by the poor.

The Bush tax cuts were aimed at the wealthy with the intent that this would have a Trickle down effect. Have you seen any evidence of that lately or in fact ever?

Here are the Bush tax cuts:

http://www.ctj.org/html/gwbfinal.htm

All they did was transfer the money from the middle class to the rich....now Obama wants to give tax cuts to the middle class and somehow that is wrong. It is hard to understand why the middle class doesn't deserve some relief?

:agree::agree:

I wish that I could offer you the numbers, but I'll look for any information that I can find. It is no secret that MANY more mortgage defaults have surfaced in the lower income levels than at the million dollar home level. There aren't that many wealthy people that stuck their neck or fortunes out for property that they couldn't afford. Most of the defaults were from upper middle class people trying to move up in asset level. The American dream of moving up. I personally know of a couple of people that couldn't afford a car manage to get mortgages and flip houses to climb the wealth ladder.

Providing loans to people under loosened lending laws, specifically passed to allow people who would not otherwise be able to get a loan, also made it easier for speculators to get loans. The million dollar homes that were purchased under the same eased credit laws. They are no more or less to blame than the poor.

As far as tax cuts go. I have stated in these posts already, that reducing taxes for people who are already paying so much more than the low and mid income people is not an affront to the classes. There was no low to mid income moneys transferred to the top. The tax reduction at the top did not come from a rise in the tax rate for the mid or bottom level earners.

Nobody said that middle class tax cuts are wrong. Who ever said that? By the same token increasing taxes on the high end to reduce it on the lower ends is wrong. Was the confiscatory 90% tax rate the top we used to have right? NO. It was reduced to a level that made sense. Is a base 35% tax rate as compared to paying no taxes right? NO.

So as not to be accused of hate mongering and useless fighting in my posts, as I've been today, I propose that EVERYONE pay taxes. Top to bottom at the same rate. No exemptions, no deductions, no corporate write offs. ALL equal in giving Caesar what Caesar's due.

Money NEVER trickles up. One has to earn their way up

I agree with you GNU. IMHO all should pay the same tax rate no exemptions or exceptions. The major problem as I see it is the government has no fiscal responsibility. They, the government, keep spending more and more even though less is coming in. The message that has been sent to business and the people is not to worry, borrow past your means, and expect to be bailed out by the government when you can't meet your obligations you willingly entered into. This is a slap in the face to every citizen and business that is fiscally responsibility. Of course, this is just MHO.

"So as not to be accused of hate mongering and useless fighting in my posts, as I've been today, I propose that EVERYONE pay taxes. Top to bottom at the same rate. No exemptions, no deductions, no corporate write offs. ALL equal in giving Caesar what Caesar's due. "

I am very interested in hearing the pros and cons of a flat rate. On the surface it seems to me the above description would certainly simplify a lot of things. I am pretty sure there are perceived downsides(decreased charitable contributions?) etc that I haven't considered but would love to hear some non-party tainted info about it. Is this a potential solution or am I way off base in also thinking it may be?

I would like to explore the flat tax rate options. Part of the issues with the tax rates are all the exemptions. Hardly anyone pays at the rate their gross income would suggest. And that goes for business also.

When to get to the lower incomes, except for children, they have less exemptions. And therefore pay at almost the full percentage.

The was a report that tax attorneys are already offering off shores packages to hide income from the tax man if the rates go up.