Is this fair....
 

I have tried to rationalize this from every perspective...help me all of those who support this action by our President and congress....help me to understand,,.,,,

"In their latest effort to pass a health care bill by any means necessary, Democrats have struck a "tentative deal" with their big labor allies to exempt union benefits from a tax on high value health care plans, CongressDaily reports.

The idea itself is nothing new. Back in June, Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus floated the idea of shielding union benefits from the new tax, but it was set aside. In September, President Obama declined to take a clear position on this so-called "carve out." But now that the excise tax has become a sticking point in negotiations between the House and Senate -- and one that threatens to cost Democrats union support for the bill -- the exemption idea is evidently back in play.

If this policy is adopted, it would mean that there could be two Americans receiving the exact same benefits, but one American may be taxed and one wouldn't, and the only difference would be one of them being a member of a union. This is unseemly and unfair, even by the standards of Obamacare. It has nothing to do with policy-making. It's simply an outright bribe to a constituency that has contributed handily to Democratic campaigns."

http://spectator.org/blog/2010/01/13...rant-special-e

the "Unfair" facade
 

Bucco,

You have a point. But it is inevitable that the new health care laws, like every other law passed in the entire history of our nation, will contain provisions that are "unfair". I submit that if exactly what you are referring to comes to pass, it will be a microscopically trivial injustice compared to failing to pass the entire legislative package.

So many of the furious objections and fears about the proposed legislation are about minor points, regulations which will affect either a relatively small percentage of the population, or, if a larger number of people, but to a relatively small degree. Doing everything perfectly or eliminating all of the "unfairness" is impossible in our diverse country. And BTW, just what is "unfair"? Is it unfair that those who earn over $1 million per year may be required to pay taxes that are a few percentage points higher to assist in providing more comprehensive health care to millions of people who cannot get it now unless they are life-threatened?

We cannot be distracted by the special interests who stop at nothing to find "unfairness" anywhere in the proposals, with the single objective of stopping any reform at any cost.

Progress is incremental and, in our country, usually maddeningly slow. This nation must finally come to grips with providing a better health care system. The electorate gave us the rare combination of a Congressional majority and a President who have steadfastly refused to give up on the enormous challenge their predecessors couldn't, or didn't care to conquer. The proposed legislation, regardless of how it is finally tweaked by the conference committee, is an historic, positive first step.

Health care reform is as ambiguous as the following two articles:
 

As predicted:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

But then there is the lead story on Drudge:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...UfFaCh9c&pos=9

The constant razzle dazzle. Must be Brown (and a lot of others are not aware of all the sneak plays a party can choose to each into the gutter and play in the name of preserving "the agenda".

Think about it. Whether 60 or 51......such a small number needed to decide the fate of a nation.
Now how fair is that?
And we the people go merrily along for the ride.......AS USUAL:cus::cus:

btk

Yes!
 

I completely agree! Great post! :coolsmiley:

Indeed, a positive first step in yet another government unconstitutional takeover that will end in disaster. Why is it so hard to see that it's not at all about health care? It's plan as day if you open your eyes.

It's government control pure and simple. That's why they will stop at nothing to pass it even when the majority of Americans are against it.

Exemptions, pay-off's, bribes, threats, lies and back door secret deals. That's seems to be what some of you support. Government take-over at any cost.

To say "they" want to stop any reform at any cost is about as wrong as wrong can get. We all know reforms are needed. What we want to do stop is the wrong reforms and they currently have it WRONG and most Americas know it.

Tell me, where does Congress have the constitutional authority to force every single American to buy health insurance or suffer fines or even jail? And then pick and choose groups who are exempt based purely on political pay backs or affiliation?

How benevolent is sounds. "They" can afford it so there's no reason why they shouldn't pay a little more.

I'll tell you the definition of social justice. You keep what you earn and I'll keep what I earn. Do you disagree? Then tell me how much of what I earn belongs to you and why? Go ahead, tell me.

Weren't you taught it's wrong to take what doesn't belong to you? Guess that doesn't apply to some... especially politicians.

I can see the next reply already. "How evil of you to be so selfish and uncaring."

Oh I care, but my caring isn't derived steeling from others even if they can afford to be stolen from and then deciding who I think deserves it.

You help who you want with your money and I'll help who I want with mine. Americans don't need politicians deciding for us, as evidence of BO's poll numbers dropping through the floor.

dklassen--- AMEN!!!! AMEN!!! AMEN!!

If this bill is so wonderful why aren't the congress critters going to be covered under the same plan??? If it is so wonderful why do they need to bribe etc. congress critters to vote for it???

I'll add one more thing.

Sounds really good and noble but let me ask you a question. Is that million dollars yours? Did you earn it? It is your right to give some of it away?

You or your neighbor is having a difficult time right now financially. Do you have the right to knock on that millionaires door and demand a check for a thousand dollars at gun point. Of course you don't and wouldn't, the analogy is ridiculous.

However, that "gun" is the IRS and you support in proxy politicians doing that very same thing in your name with money that doesn't belong to you or them in the name of health care and fairness. After health care it will be in the name of something else, and something else and something else.

It's not fair that some can afford car insurance and others can't, it's not fair that some can afford life insurance to protect their family and others can't, it's not fair some can afford to own a car and other's can't. It's not fair that some can afford to own a house and other's can't. It's not fair that some can have their teeth fixed and other's can't, it's not fair that some can pay their heating bill and other's can't, it's not fair some have a job and others don't, it's not fair some make 100k a year and others only make 30k, it's not fair some can afford to live in The Villages and others can't, not fair, not fair, not fair.

Guess what, life isn't fair and you CAN'T make it fair no matter how much money you forcibly take from one and give to another. The only one's who benefit in the end are politicians. Government programs don't make things fair, they only make the government larger.

It's time more people figure that out... maybe, just maybe they are starting to.

Hear Hear!!! Milton Friedman to it's core!:thumbup:

If I was as angry as you sound, I would call this the most self-centered, myopic view possible of a citizen's role in a democracy. Are you as angry about every taxpayer dollar spent, or just some? Are you infuriated that we are in now spending millions to help Haitians?

But I am not angry and I won't accuse you of being selfish, etc.

I would just suggest you think of your role as an American in the way Bill Gates does. Maybe you'll argue that it's easy for him, but in fact, he doesn't have to give away millions. He says the more individuals profit from the system, the more we OWE the system. In America, profit is not accidental or rare. Gates says it is realized because of the peace, order and strength of our society, the higher educational opportunities, the huge national commitment to research and development, and the deep financial base that makes it possible to weather the worst economic downturns and unbridled greed of the rich.

The majority of Americans are living a comfortable lifestyle completely beyond the grasp of the majority of people in the rest of the world. None of us put ourselves in that lofty state by ourselves. The least we can do is share a little of what we have with our own countrymen so that their health and future opportunities might become a little more equal to what we have. If they can achieve the basics, they will have the ability to be the engines of future progress. Therein lies the real strength of a nation.

The ideals being expoused are noble and most of us would
 

support such goals. The current health care reform does none of what is touted as "helping". Helping who? It is Obama's personal agenda item. As he has said all through the summer when he found his so charisma is wearing thin and we the people weren't just buying what ever he and his worker bees in the congress and senate throw over the wall.

He said more than once this summer, he did not care what was in the bill as long as he could get a bill passed this year. He is an after the fact persona in the crafting of the bill. Just like the rest of the politicians he is not privy to the contents. The only time he gets involved is when there is a bump in the road and another hold out needs to be reigned in....most recently the unions.....they hold out....he gives in...they get what they want....the rest of the rank and file just goes where the bus goes.

The hold out till you get a deal is so prevalent you would think an intelligent member of the process would spot the technique. There is the hooker....an intelligent person in office!!!!!

How many of you would buy a house knowing as little about it as you do about health care reform? How many of you would invest your savings in a product knowing no more about it than you do about health care reform?

For starters you would be committing to buying a house or an investment from somebody who can not tell you how much it is going to cost!!! Would any of us have to go any further???

THEN WHY IS IT OK FOR THE SHYSTERS IN WASHINGTON TO DO JUST THAT????

Please don't confuse the noble objectives of most humans to help one another out with what politicians say.....I would think if you are posting on this forum you are old enough to know better that the pig in a poke routine.

btk

Now here's that high octane, scattershot anger!

Blah Blah Blah.

A: Nope, just some.

How noble of you to be so free with everyone's else's money. You aren't a retired politician are you?

You talk about the strength of a nation. Tell me one nation in world history that taxed itself into prosperity?

When is enough - enough? I would never be upset about sharing a little of what I have - but the government has already seen to that so I already do share. How much more must I share? When will the bleeding stop - the bleeding heart liberals and the bleeding of my wallet?

How is it fair to exempt someone from paying a tax for one reason.....being a union member ?

Someone on here said that there has to be a start......how about actually reforming the health care system, instead of using our congress to pay political IOU's ?(if you dont think this examption was political then you are very naive) How about not CARING what is in the bill just as long as you get a bill....is that the way we want to begin finally on health care ?

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. I think that's what they believe.