Leaving flag stick in the hole creating new problems.....torn up holes.
 

Played Heron this morning and it was so very obvious the new rule of leaving the flag stick in is now facilitating abuse of the hole opening.
Almost every single hole had some portion of the cup edge broken or crushed out of shape.

So now the the course destroying non divot fillers, non ball mark fixers and non raking bunker players we can add the flag jerking and putter ball retrieving hole tearer uppers.

We still play with the flag out of the hole.

The new rule is just plain stupid. No benefit what so ever with destructive results only.

No problem at all where I played today outside of The Villages

Only partially agree with you...

Those who insist on trying to remove their ball with a device while the flag is still in is a big negative. Couldn't agree more. But for knowledgeable, caring golfers, the rule is a good one.

Our group plays by the agreement that if you want the flag out, you ask for it to be removed. Otherwise it stays in. It stays in for us almost all the time...and our pace of play on the greens has definitely improved. And of course we remove the ball from the hole by hand.

...

I think it's a great new rule.

I recall reading a study by Pelz about 30 years ago that said he did an in-depth study and his recommendation was that us amateurs...should always leave it in (when possible back then).

He posited that the stick can/will slow momentum, thereby allowing gravity to have a better chance of overcoming inertia...thus a better chance of the ball falling in the hole.

As for those who try to jerk the ball out of the hole using the flagstick, I've had to stop a number of experienced golfers that I play with often (who DO fix ball marks/rake bunkers/sand divots) from doing just that...and should know better. :oops:

I've even offered to get their ball for them, which is usually enough to shame them into bending over...and picking their ball out of the hole by hand.

I've been toying with ideas on inventing a device, such as the current suction cups, to put on the end of putters that would get the ball out of the hole with the stick in...without damaging the hole.

And as I point out to those who try to jerk it out with the stick, a lot who already have the suction cup on their putter handles, why don't they just pull the stick...and then use their suction cups? :ohdear:


First world problems and struggles...are real. :D

In thinking further about it (and staying on topic :oops:), I'll bet it won't be long before cup/stick manufacturers come up with a design similar (lighter and curled on the edges, so it won't mark the greens when laid down?) to what is used on most putting greens so that the flagstick has a base on it...thereby making it easier to pull the ball out of the hole by pulling out the flagstick.

In fact, having a broader base might also help keep the flag straighter when the wind is blowing and/or...when the cup is not cut perfectly.

Soooo, never mind about inventing a device for the end of the grip to pull the ball out with the stick in.

Gee, I just saved myself...a whole lot of cerebral work. :D

Once again I must reconsider what I said.

:D

There's no shame in being correct once in a while...even if it was accidental. :1rotfl:

Considering many executive courses are nearly bald, bone dry, and with a crumbling surface, I am suprised that there is not more damage around the cups.

What courses are you playing?
Steve

Most between 466 and 466A.
Pimlico, Churchill Greens and Belmont are a disgrace.

I disagree completely about the flag causing problems.

The new rule is not the problem.
Not needing to pull the flagstick is not the problem.
Removing your ball from the cup with the flagstick in the hole is not the problem.

The problem is the human EFFECT of these. Laziness, Ego, lack of consideration for others, uncaring for property, etc etc.

If a player cannot bend down to remove the ball with the flagstick in, ask fellow players for assist. Or remove the stick THEN insert your removal tool.

We, too, have seen the condition of Exec courses declining - esp care of bunkers and greens and teebox areas. I would hope some education reinforcement would help - notices/pictures at the Starter windows, and mention by Starters & on-course Staff.

disagree...the holes were being damaged even worse when the flags were taken out due to people using the ball cup on the end of the putter and standing to far from the hole thus crushing the edge. Then you have the people using their putter head to take the ball out of the hole doing even worse damage.

Leaving the pin in is NOT the cause of hole damage! The new rule is great...speeds up play and gives more depth perception for hole location. You can always remove the pin to retrieve your ball if you aren't coordinated enough to get it out with the pin in the cup.

Bingo!!!!!! It would do a lot of people a lot of good if they bent over to pick their ball out of the hole with their hand. Please get rid of those silly things on the grip of your putter and get a bit of stretching exercise. And DO NOT under any circumstances retrieve the ball with your putter or any other club.