Who should be allowed to drive in TV?
 

In another thread there was a comment about the community is made up of older people and questioned some their ability to drive safely.

The ability to safely drive definitely diminishes (for some) as we age. Eye sight, reaction times, reaction to stressful events, etc. all take a toll.

There is obviously a wide variation in peoples abilities, and I was wondering what everyones feelings are about licensing and age/ability? My wife and I are planing on a Tesla in our future and one of the reasons is that we would prefer to let the car do the driving as we age. I am currently 70 and she is 65, and at this point we "feel" we are still capable, but we both agree that we can see the day coming when it would be better to not have to drive, but still retain the ability to be independently mobile.

There was also a recent article about an autonomous (self driving) taxi service coming to TV, which I think is a great alternative to driving as we age - assuming it is affordable.

What are your feelings about licensing requirements? Are you making plans for a future where you don't/can't drive?

Inquiring minds want to know!

I am teaching my seeing eye dog to drive, and he is doing quite well.
Still gets a bit confused at roundabouts, and he is not very happy about driverless taxis! :icon_wink:

In the current age of computer games everyone over the age of 70 should be require to take a computer driven simulator test dr every 3 years-- very simple sit in the simulator insert your drivers license, the machine scans your license to verify its the person , photographs the person being tested, now you take a five minute test drive, if you fail, you get an immediate do over, fail twice, you must take a real road test--I'm 76, soon to be 77 and I am will to do this, once you're past 80, the test should be every 2 years

Unless a person has dementia, most people will decide wisely when it is no longer safe for them to drive just as many older people make unselfish and wise decisions every day.

Many young drivers are far more dangerous than many older drivers. Their insurance rates are high for good reason.

Estrogen, testosterone and the lack thereof and the highly used Zoloft are all silent factors in this very complicated question. Older drivers usually do not drive fast and they usually do not drive as much as younger drivers so the insurance question is complicated.

I am not driving. My doctors say I can but I have decided not to. I haven't had a citation for twenty five years, but I was hospitalized a couple of years ago for a very unexpected and very slow heartbeat that if it had not been diagnosed could have caused my sudden death. I have a pacemaker that corrects it, but my husband is willing to drive me and I am rethinking this over and over.

Why do you ask this question? Are you looking to debate or to hurt feelings?

I've felt this since I was a teen, when my aunt used to drive me around in Florida on Summer vacation, and my thoughts haven't changed over the decades.

1. You should have to take an eye test every time you go to renew your license if you are prescribed prescription lenses (whether you actually wear them or not).
2. You should have to take a physical driving test when you renew your license, if you have EVER been fined or convicted for DUI or "distracted driving."
3. You should have to take a physical driving test when you renew your license, from the time you are 60 years old, and each time after that.
4. For Florida, where the license is good for 8 years, that time should be cut in half if you are 60 or older. 8 years is a LONG time, and plenty of time for your body and mind, and most of all, reflexes, to change drastically when you're a senior.

Florida State Law determines who can and cannot drive here on our county owned roads. Until we see new legislation, nothing will change. How about anonymous reporting of bad drivers ??

1. This thread is asking peoples' opinions. What do you feel about the topic? What is your OPINION of the topic?

2. Legislation is often discussed and voted on based on the will of the legislators' constituents. We the People and all that. It's why we vote for our legislators - so they can vote in legislation that meets the needs of the people in their districts/states/counties/country.

3. Nothing will change if no one tells the legislators that it's a problem. Change comes about when people say that change is needed.

Older drivers do not want to give up their last right to independence. Our parents did not believe they should not be driving. So had to go round about with physicians and state to finally get things into perspective.

It’s hard to take that action, but they had no idea how bad their driving was, as Mom said, I drive better than anyone else. As she was driving 15 in a 50, cause she could no long see well enough

I certainly am not looking to hurt feelings.

I spent 4 years driving a cash register at a convenience store in Phoenix AZ close to Sun City there (a retirement community). During that 4 years I often saw older people take quite literally 15 minutes to get from their car into the store to prepay for gas. They were exhausted just getting out of the drivers seat and would stand for 5 minutes leaning on the car before walking to the trunk and waiting again to catch their breath or wait for their heart rate to do back down. These people were putting other peoples lives at risk. It was NOT an infrequent occurrence, and our store manager had a policy of asking them to stay in their cars are we would go out to take their payment and pump their gas for them. I had to wonder if we were helping or enabling them.

I understand the need/desire to remain independent and being able to drive is a requirement for that independence in many communities. But, I also feel a responsibility to my fellow citizens to act responsibly and not put other peoples lives at risk. Driving is a privilege not a right.

There are numerous other questions/discussions I feel seniors should have. Things that traditionally polite people just didn't talk about. Dying, Life Support, DNRs, Living Wills, Who will care for my pets if I die etc. etc. etc.

Getting older is inevitable (unless you are a super-ager, but that is only about 5% of the population). And I think learning how (and when) to deal with aging is something we all should be concerned with and plan on prior to needing to do it. I read an interesting article written by a lady that was diagnosed with Alzheimer's. She decided that she would make the decisions about her care and life and end of life while she still could. I admire that self determination, and respect her right to do it. I feel the same about other decisions such as driving. As I said, my wife and I can see a day coming where we should not (don[t want to) drive any more. And are making plans for that eventuality. Bringing the topic up here with a large group of people that face the same decisions is my way of getting input to give me things to think about that I may not have thought of.

What better place to learn about how others feel we should age. What we can do to age better. What should we do to age gracefully and responsibly.

I am sorry your first reaction to a serious question about a serious topic that I believe we all should be openly discussing and thinking about is that I was doing it to hurt some one. That is a very sad statement on TOTV and our ability to carry on open conversations about difficult topics.

I love to debate, true. And I am open to debating any topic anyone would like to debate - heck, I will even take whichever side they don't, just so we can debate.

But I NEVER say anything to hurt or insult anyone.

Be Careful of people with purple hair, people who think they are the best drivers and everyone else is the worst. I know people who are over 80 and can out drive most people in their 50s

Wrestling away drivers licenses from the elderly can be so difficult. I think it would be wise if the law was devised to test yearly at age 80 to 85 for driver licenses and then completely surrender all drivers licenses at age 85. Senior transportation could be provided by public services for basic trips, ie: Dr/Dentist appts, pharmacies, church, grocery store, liquor store, (just put that one in there to see if you were paying attention). You get the basic idea. Seniors should be able to drive golf carts until they fall over.:a040:

It's worse when you are riding with your mother and after she runs three red lights, you turn to her and say "Mother you just drove through 3 red lights!" and she turns to look at you and replies, "I am driving?"

... (joke)

Yup, but is it a right to be independent? Driving is certainly NOT a right.

I completely agree and as Gracie said, many teens are awful drivers. So, it would seem that what we need is an independent third party (driving tests and physicals?) to determine ability to drive.

Many older people with sleep apnea are not aware they have it, and many people with sleep apnea suffer narcolepsy (falling asleep at inappropriate times). So, without a third party test/evaluation they could put others lives at risk. I have sleep apnea, and I am treating it. I have no history of narcolepsy, but should I develop it and not be aware of it, I would want to have my license revoked.

Perhaps a slightly reworded subject line would help set the stage for a discussion like you seem to be soliciting. Something like “WHO SHOULD BE DRIVING IN TV?”. You seem to be asking at what point is a person both physically and mentally able to drive safely and who decides. Correct?

Adding the word “allowed” implies you are asking whether we want additional governmental control of who drives in TV. If that is what you are asking then my reply is that I think the government already controls too much of our lives. In regards to additional or more frequent driving tests I would ask whether the tester is having a good day or bad day, do they have a predisposition to allow or disallow seniors from driving, etc.

Yes, I believe that as we age our physical and mental capabilities decrease. And if , GOD Willing, you grow old enough there will come a point when driving becomes unsafe, for yourself and others. So let’s continue these discussions, look to our friends and family to help guide us when it becomes our time to hand over our keys. If we are open and prepared then it should not be too hard.

Thanks for the question and discussion.

There is a newer issue affecting all of us and that is driving impaired with illegal substances. All those laws against using drugs to get high and yet we are all impacted by drug impaired drivers.

I wonder how many older people use drugs or alcohol to get high, compared with other age groups.

I wonder if road rage is age related. Does anyone know?

I found this study, looking for a recent one;
Over 100 Car Accident Statistics for 2019 | U.S. and Global

Well, actually I agree and disagree with you. I do mean who should be ALLOWED to drive in TV.

It would be great if as Gracie suggested seniors would be responsible and stop driving when they are no longer able to safely drive.

BUT, I do not think I want to trust the lives of myself, my children and my grand children to SOME peoples belief that they are able to drive safely. Our worse, don't even carte if they can.

I agree the government does seem to be intruding more and more into our lives. But there are some areas where that is the whole point of government, to protect my RIGHT to life liberty, etc..

Excellent question, and I will add how many older seniors do not take ANY drugs/medications - I expect none? And how many of those prescriptions (and non-prescriptions) can result in impaired ability to drive or impaired ability to make a sound judgement as to ones own ability to drive!

Just for the record. How old are you?

I will be 80 this November. I have no idea how that happened.

The most widely prescribed medications for older people are statins and blood pressure medication. Neither affect judgement in any way, shape or form.

Study shows 70 percent of Americans take prescription drugs - CBS News

Yes, I agree that government’s role is the protection of citizens, which I guess this falls into. But lets make that the last resort. Let’s rebuild our friends and family strengths and slow governments growth. My brothers and I speak frequently to my father of age 80 about driving. I ride with him today with no fear or concern of his capabilities but we continually remind him that the day will come. Setting the stage for what will hopefully be a easier transition.

These discussions help raise the issue and I hope everyone reading takes a little more responsibility for themselves or a loved one as a result.

Why not include with your "learning" how to handle the problem that would be created by denying more and more driver's their licenses and their need to get to activities, appts, shopping, etc? What do you intend to service their transportation needs - not all of which can be scheduled. That would be true learning and problem solving.

The problem is as I see it, that nothing is walkable in TV also there are few to no sidewalks. There is no public transportation as in other cities which people who don’t drive take. Uber or taxis will not come into TV easily because the short distances are not worth it to most of them. Not everyone can afford a self-driving car when it comes out. So what do you do? I might as well get on that ice float cause I’m too much trouble if I can’t drive.

Every road in The Villages are Public with the exception of Courtyard Yard Villages which are considered " Private " with public access.

I am ONLY 70. Yesterday or the day before I was 30... :)

Well, I did include that my wife and I have discussed it and have a Tesla in our future, so that we get in the car and it takes us to the store, or the rec center, or wherever. When we finish shopping we don't wander around the parking lot (like I did yesterday) trying to remember when I left my car, I just summons it with my smart phone. For us that is step one of when we reach that point where we are not safe to drive ourselves. (Actually we don't wan't to wait until we can't, we plan to buy one soon, it is already mostly automatic on highways.)

And I also mentioned the news that a full autonomous taxi company will be coming to TV soon (if it isn;'t already here). Assuming it is affordable, that will be an excellent option for seniors that can not drive.

And I opened a discussion here, to learn and possibly to get some people who hadn't thought about it, to thinking about it. After all the best solution for anyone is the one they come up with for themselves.

And finally, I find it interesting that you look at it as "denying" someone the ability to get around. I am suggesting we allow people that are able to drive e safely to continue too drive as long as they can do it safely. That some will get old and become unable to drive is not my fault? I am n to denying them anything, I am trying to promote safety. I am sorry for anyone that loses the ability to drive safely, but I don't see that as "denying" them something they have a right to. Driving is a privilege.

My parents retired to northern New Hampshire (the opposite of everyone else) but at 90 and 88 they are both still driving. My brother tried to get their keys but to no avail. They do know there limitations and try not to drive much at night etc but we are concerned.

Recently someone in Mass was ticketed for sleeping behind the wheel of their Tesla. It is still not perfect so be careful.

If older drivers are so good, why do insurance companies think otherwise? When you take the AARP course--there is little difference between seniors and teenagers--accident wise

Completely understand. Only a year ago we drove a 9 year old Toyota Yaris and had no plans to replace it... ever. A Tesla was not even an option. Today we are living in a senior citizens resort in our new home and making plans for a better future than we ever thought possible. We are extremely fortunate and lucky to be here.

We were living on a beautiful 11 acres in the country with a pond and heavily wooded for the past 10 years. As we began planning for our future, we realized that we could not stay on our "Green Acres". Someday, one of us would fall, or have a stroke, or something. And it was 15 minutes into town, 30 minutes for an ambulance to get to us and take us to a hospital - and a not very good hospital at that. Then when/if one of us died, the other would be left isolated and alone out in the country. Not a good situation for a senior.

We live(d) on our combined SS alone. Our 401k's, saving and everything were destroyed in the 2008 crash. After a couple dental/medical vacations to Ecuador we began seriously discussing immigrating to Ecuador. The cost of living is about 1/4 of what it is here. A 5 bedroom 3 bath home complete with utilities and internet is about $450/mth in and around Cuenca. Public transportation is amazing, buses anywhere every 5 minutes, and the ride costs $0.25 for seniors to go anywhere. Taxis are even faster, less than a minute wait and go anywhere for under $2.50. (They use American dollars for currency) Eating out a 4 course lunch was about $2.75 ea. And on and on.

100% coverage healthcare (no deductibles and including vision and dental) would run the two of us 17% of one of our SS income (premium of $340/mth) and the other would get virtually free coverage as a dependent. And lastly, the people there are amazing and friendly and happy. We really enjoyed our time there.

We struggled with this for a long time, because while it would be great for us, and give us the option to travel extensively and live better than here, it was 1000s of miles away from our families.

Luckily for us we came into an inheritance from a completely unexpected source and all our plans changed over night.

What has all that got to do with your post? It was that part of our consideration in moving to Ecuador was that Cuenca was designed for walking and public transportation. Instead of large shopping centers/plazas a 15 minute drive away like here, there they have neighborhood stores run by neighbors. We had literally dozens of small 3 or 4 table restaurants within a 5 minute walk of any house. There were small grocerys every block or two, bakeries with fresh bread daily within one block, etc... So, any daily shopping was as simple as walk across the street (almost). Going to the doctor was a 5 minute ride by taxi. Going to a mall was a 10 minute ride by bus.

That was a very big attraction to us, to be able to retain our ability to get around and to not be isolated.

And a bonus was the people and culture. They are a very family oriented culture, and respect seniors and foreigners. Even though we struggled to learn Spanish, everyone was happy to go out of their way to help us in anyway they could. Lots of arm waving and sign language to get our questions answered :)

If things had not changed for us, we would have been happy to move to Ecuador and with the reduced cost of living would have simply had to fly "home" to see family and friends occasionally.

My point, is there are options for almost everyone - not everyone I understand, but sometimes one needs to look outside the box to find a solution and the sooner one looks the easier it is to make the changes.

Honestly, here in the US, I think a senior that loses the ability to travel independently is pretty much destined for assisted living, and that is not cheap in this country.

Yup, we are waiting impatiently for all the early adopters to get the tickets and have the accidents and iron out the bugs before we jump in :)

Read this. From 2014 but concise and easy to understand;

Young vs. Old: Who are the Safest Drivers? - Good2Go

Nice Cayenne, GG! Or is it a Macan?

As a HHC RN, I can guarantee you that most people, dementia or not, do NOT make wise decisions about driving. I could tell you tales that would make your blood crawl about ways that elderly people have devised to keep on driving long after they should have given up the keys.

If a person is incapable of driving safely, then they should not be allowed to drive. The only way to know, is to test them once in awhile. I see no problem here at all.

Your right to be safe on public roads is more important than anyone's privilege to drive a motor vehicle. We are taught when we first take driving lessons, that driving is a privilege, and not a right, and that it is also a responsibility.

Once you are unable to be responsible, you should be required to give up your privilege.

Mom 86 no meds, Either script or over counter. BP and cholesterol # most could only dream of. Thankful it’s passed on to next 2 generations

Insurance companies are not stupid. They give discounts for people that take DEFENSIVE DRIVING COURSES. Especially in the state that is the creator of the popular "DODGE THE BLUE HAIRS" GAME !!

First they came for your car keys, then they came for your life. Once you start using language like "be allowed to...", where does it end?

Florida has mandatory license renewal. No one gets a free ride without getting an eye test. I have seen many 20 somethings with a death wish on the road, yet other than GG, no one else has brought that up. Drive defensively, always, and you'll outlive the "hold my beer and watch this" crowd.

I don't care how old you are, if you have trouble driving, then you shouldn't drive. As we age, our depth perception, reflexes, peripheral vision, muscle control, and hearing start to shift. Some people take longer than others, but ultimately - the aging process will occur whether you want it to or not.

By around 65, motor coordination is _most likely_ to start to lag a bit. That doesn't mean everyone will suddenly stop moving correctly on their 65th birthday. It DOES mean that somewhere around that age, is when your machinery will not be as well oiled as it used to be.

It's a good age to swap out the 8-year license renewals for a 4-year license renewal, and require a physical driving test in addition to an eye test. I know there are laws that have changed since I took my written exam in my state. I spent most of my life obeying the laws that I knew - such as approximately how far away you should be, behind the person driving in front of you.

But that was before the advent of anti-lock breaks and all-wheel drive. The rules have changed, and so now the criteria for "driving too close" moving violations is different from what it used to be.

What I think is tailgating, because I'm used to one set of laws, is actually reasonable, according to the current set of laws.

A lot of older drivers are in the same situation - they spent their lives with one set of laws, not really understanding how new laws might affect their own driving experience.

So between the physical aging process, updated or changed laws, and eyesight issues - I think it's a good idea to shorten the length of time between renewals, AND take a physical test again.

That would touch on all of the millennials who are drunk or high.

Can you link any of this to fact?