Solar Panel
 

Saw a person in our neighborhood was having a solar panels installed on their roof as an alternative power source--checked it out online--I have to live 30 years for break even

What am I missing ?

You will have to show us your calculations as a break even is not 30 years.

Without tax incentives................difficult to ROI justify.

Its not my calculations, its what I read online--knowing the average age of a Villager--its very dumb

I did some calculations a couple of years ago, back up in PA (an unregulated state) the utilities actually BUY solar energy, and the economics are quite a bit different from Florida. I based my calcs, on an outright purchase of the panels (no rentals, lease or other arrangements), I looked at the lost investment opportunity, interest rates, possible changes in taxes, estimated lower electric bill, estimated maintenance costs, expected loss of efficiency, etc.
Bottom line, I did not see a breakeven in my expected lifetime, 20+ years. NOTE: I do not consider the removal cost and re-installation when the roof needs to be replaced about halfway through this period. Please do a careful review of your personal finances and under NO circumstance enter into a LEASE arrangement, there appears to be way too many hidden costs, one of the Orlando TV stations did a report a few months ago on this.

I did an online calculation for my house last year, using solar-estimate.org. The results showed that the upfront cost, after the 30 percent tax credit, would be $12,489. This amount is supposed to be an average cost from four local solar contractors. The payback period is 16 years, and the total life cycle energy cost savings over 25 years would be $4,647. But, they did not include any potential investment return that I would forfeit by not being able to invest my $12,489. They also did not include any repair, maintenance, or insurance costs. So, I cannot see how a solar system would make financial sense for my house.

Many “green “ decisions are made with the heart and not the head. Payback may have not been considered

My dad put them on his roof and after a year or two of monitoring the numbers....is looking at ~ 20 years to get his investment back. Quite a bit longer than what the salesman suggested.

It does allow him to put on an air of superiority when it comes to climate change though so there's that.

Solar Panels
 

Try solar tubes from The Solar Guys if you just want to get more light in your home during the daylight hours. That is what we did at a fraction of the cost of solar panels.

It’s not for internal source use....it adds power back to the power grid and you than get credit on you electric bill.

My sister did this a few years ago and there is no scenario you come out ahead financially. She was replacing her roof so thought it was a good concept to help supply more electricity. With the loan taken out to put it up they calculated it was a break even proposition. Well, they decided to move to The Villages and have a loan to pay off after the sale of their house. Now they say, "what were we thinking"!!

Nothing you are just nosey.

11 year payback
 

Congrats to your neighbor for installing solar panels. I recently moved to TV and installed them on my Courtyard Villa last year.

This is my second installation as my first was in Maryland where they had state incentives.

Of course, here in Florida, where the sun is much stronger due to the the lower latitude, the only incentives are Federal (30% in my case) and you must purchase the panels to get the incentive.

The math was a straight forward calculation for me. I did not assume the investment in a S&P 500 fund as they always say, 'past performance is no guarantee of future results'.

I had 18 months of previous SECO bills. The year used 10,535 kwh/yr at a price of $1491. SECO also had a Hot Bucks PCA rebate (not guaranteed) of $210.

So using conservative low energy costs and the Hot Bucks incentive, the annual energy bill was $1281.

My panels cost $13,188 after the 30% federal tax credit and provide 9,797 kWh/yr or 93% of my current energy needs. $13,188 divided by an adjusted $1191 (93%) equals a payback of 11 years.

The LONGI Solar Panels have been determined to degrade an average of 1% over the first 3 years but they continue to produce energy for over 30 years!

I also went with what I believe to be the BEST solar installer in the area, Solar Energy World based in Tampa as I used them in Maryland. You don't want to take a chance with sub contractors installing your solar panels.

BOTTOM LINE: Emotion is definitely a part of it but it is backed up by sound fiscal calculations.

A friend had the solar panels installed on his house and pays the monthly payments of $170. He still gets a small monthly electric bill. My house is about the same size as his and if I went on the budget plan, my electric bill would be $120. I can't see getting them either.

I don't see how you can ignore the forfeited investment return from $13,188. Even a modest annual return of 4 percent would pay for half of your energy costs, which would double your payback period.

Feel free to reach out to me for a tour if you are considering going solar.

not about the $ as solar's not proven economics,,, its being able to say 'i care more than you',,, w/o tax breaks, no one would consider solar & tesla never would've gotten off the ground

The only way to prove the economics is to eliminate the tax credits and subsidies and see if these solar companies can still sell their product.

We would be so much better off with more nuclear power plants, IMHO.

Also posted in investment section:
2019 & 2020 Energy Tax Credits
There are significant “Renewable Energy Tax Credits” for up to 30% of the costs of major energy installations. These credits are unlimited, and include labor on installation for the following:
solar water heaters
solar panels
geothermal heat pumps
small wind turbines
fuel cells
The 30% credits decline through 2021, and are as follows:
2019: 30%
2020: 26%
2021: 22%
The installations must be installed in a home you own and use as a residence (no rentals, but second homes qualify).

13K for Solar panels?
 

13K for the incentive to live another 30 yrs in TV?:bigbow:

First of all, talk to your neighbor. I installed solar in 2019 with 30% tax credit and this year I believe the credit is 28% but check that.

Also not sure how you calculated: I used the best panasonic panels, Enphase inverters, and 25 year warrenty on parts, labor and roof penetration from a qualified Panasonic installer. My payback is just short of 10 years based on paying cash and current electric pricing. My roof was replaced in 2016 as part of the Shingle Defect Program that year in The Villages. Paying on credit really increases your cost.

Perhaps a family member will inherit and current owner is getting it started.

We installed solar panels on our house in Key Largo in 2018. As soon as it was active, we started getting credits on our electric bill each month instead of paying (averaged at least $200 in that all-electric house that needs A/C year-round). Now we're selling that house to be full time in The Villages, so unless we make the balance back in the sale, no, we won't get our investment back. But I'm okay with that. When I was arguing with my hubby about putting in the solar, he was in the process of buying a boat...that coincidentally cost roughly what the solar panels did. I said he could consider the solar "my boat," since it was important to me. (I want to leave a livable planet for my grandchildren, if possible!) Unlike his boat, my "boat" is paying for itself! :) (And now he's selling that boat, less than 3 years later, and I guarantee he won't get what he paid, especially when you factor in the $ he's put into it since buying it.) We all have different priorities and dying with the most money possible isn't one of mine. <shrug>

Are you really getting 9797 KWh/yr or is that what the company says? Just asking because my dad is getting a fair bit less than what the panels were sold to produce and that is a big part of extending out the payout to 20 years for him.

It's sort like "these panels will produce 10,000 KWh/yr!" but they are only producing at that rate on a perfectly clear sky on Jun 21st. A cloudy mid december day is a whole lot different.

For FL, a good rule of thumb is to take the nominal rating of the system (in units of kW) and multiply by 4 (hrs) to get the average kWh per day. Based on 9797 kWh per yr, I am guessing they have a 7.2 kW nominal system. This essentially comes from NREL, a Government Energy Lab.

They are ugly! Wondering what happens to your roof’s Warantee?

Absolutely. Generation 4 Thorium nuclear power generation - zero CO2 emissions, proliferation resistant, and walk-away safe with 100 times less waste than Gen 1 - 3 plants. Also, can safely burn the waste of present nuclear power plants, cheaply reduce atmospheric CO2 gas to useable liquid fuels, and has the heat capacity to provide de-salinization for pure water. Thorium is plentiful enough to supply all the energy needs of the US for 1000 years. A lump of Thorium smaller than a golf ball has enough fissionable energy to supply a person with all their lifetime energy needs.

Realistically, the only thing that make solar panels economically viable is the federal tax credit. Here are some other things to consider. 1. The condition of your roof supporting the panels. The poster here (Jimbo) had his roof recently replace. 2. Photo-voltaic panels lose efficiency with time, somewhere between 1 to 2% per year. So after 25 years their efficiency could be about 45% lower than when new. 3. You have to keep them clean or they lose efficiency. 4. No one ever seems to address end-of-life disposal and the associated costs (same problem with wind turbines). PV panels contain heavy metals, which mostly come from China by the way, so you can't just throw them in a dump. Food for thought.

Brenda: The further south you live, the more home solar panels start to make sense. But you are kidding yourself if you think you are doing great things for the environment. Besides, Silicon photo voltaic panels contain heavy metals, much of which comes from open pit strip mines in China. Also, after their 20 to 30 year(if you're lucky) lifespan how are you going to recycle them such that you don't create an environmental hazard by just throwing them in a dump? There are ways to do it but expensive! The dirty little secret of solar panels.

What about resale value of the house? I wouldn't buy a house that has solar panels. I have yet to see a real estate agent comment on how easy or difficult it is to sell a house that has solar panels.

I agree about what the panels do to the look of a home. I think the panels deface the home and would never have them.

My sister had solar panels installed on her NY home about 4 months ago. Already they have had a roof leak.

I am confident that I am the only poster that has data on their home's electricity consumption as my monitor checks usage 10,000 a second. I have over two years of data on this.

What no one understands is time of solar generation, time of consumption of electricity and the rates that you pay for electricity vice what you are paid for surplus.

Under no circumstances will a system that generates 15,000 KwH annually be a break even for a household which consumes 15,000. Even after not considering opportunity costs, loan costs or minimum fees by your utility.

It's simple, you pay 11.6 cents a KwH but sell surplus at 7.2 cents. You are helping your utility's profit by providing wholesale electricity at 2 pm to sell to your neighbor at 11.6.

No online calculator takes this simple math into consideration.

Yup...And the latest Pebble Bed designs are 99.999 safe with instantaneous and natural/automatic thermal shutdown.

One can synthesize HCs using cheap nuclear power and your feedstock is plain ocean water which is about 6% CO2 - atmospheric CO2 is 0.04%. HCs are renewable (just like the natural renewable process on earth) but only with cheap/clean nuclear. Oxidizing HC produces CO2 and water which is plant food.

HC Oxidation = Green. Solar Electric = Brown :)

Solar panels are getting cheaper and more efficient every year. They will be cost effective in just a few more years.