Originally Posted by queasy27 (Post 1747064)

They will now be reporting "probable" deaths, as opposed to only those that were confirmed through testing. The change caused their 24 hour death rate to increase from around 600-800 to several thousand yesterday.

It just points up again how wildly different the numbers can be and how little we actually know about rates of infections, recoveries, and deaths. More accurate information would go a long way to helping citizens feel more able to make realistic choices for their own health and that of others. The lack of test kits/defective kits, has had far-reaching consequences.

But then, annual estimates for flu deaths range from 20K to 60K, so maybe it's just to be expected with so many variables and reporting agencies.

Originally Posted by DianeM (Post 1747065)

Thank you. I said this on another forum earlier and they jumped on me like white on rice.

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 1747094)

No what you said on another thread was this



But Queasy said



You said anyone who died is listed as corona, Queasy correctly says only those deaths where corona is a probable cause. Huge difference. That's why you got "jumped on"

NY, as I posted earlier and you choose to dismiss, is following the CDC's instructions for completing death certificates. In an environment where there are way too few COVID test kits available the question becomes, if a person dies with cough and pneumonia with disease symptoms consistent with COVID but they did not have a test done either because one was not available or they did not have an opportunity to be tested prior to their death, Should that death certificate indicated COVID as a contributing cause of death? A reasonable person would say, of course.

The CDC wants probable COVID related deaths to be reported. Tests are not being wasted on dead people. It is also well recognized that there are significant numbers of false negative tests in people who have the disease.

NY is not manipulating the data, they are conforming to what should be a national standard as articulated by the CDC.

No agency is faking death records in NY.

Here are the applicable lines, read the whole document to increase your understanding

"In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as “probable” or “presumed.” In these instances, certifiers should use their best clinical judgement in determining if a COVID–19 infection was likely"

Originally Posted by koapaka (Post 1748132)

and how do you explain the videos leaking out showing nyc hospitals with no one in line to be tested, actually not needing the temp military hospitals and ship, not needing the ventilators that the gov was screaming for, etc etc. Candace owens did a great job basically showing the average daily nyc deaths for cancer, heart disease, diabetes, obesity, etc have plummeted to record lows during this virus period which supports how they are inflating the wuhan virus numbers. Nothing about this is making sense other than a method to destroy our economy prior to the elections.

Just a question to ponder, how many people would have died in that city of what 8 million or so depending how you count in the same timeframe? Subtract that number.

I think it comes down to money. All deaths where the victim had the virus in their system labeled as virus death. Government pays the costs for those patients (this also for those that live). As mentioned other deaths have plummeted. I believe the virus did not kill the patients, other causes did. But guaranteed payment if labeled virus. Not limited to nyc, but most pronounced there.

Originally Posted by fishon (Post 1748162)

As always the criminal element is in charge in New York and has their hands out for more money than they deserve.
Absolutely a hive of scum and villainy.

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy (Post 1748251)

Many deaths are reported by "clinical" decision making, which the doctor made a decision based upon the facts presented to him/her, not by a single test. My dad's death was reported as pneumonia, but he also had several bouts of cancer, and had untested tumors on his lungs, and had been losing weight recently. So, what really killed him?

Also, there are guidelines agreed to by states and the federal government, which do change based upon the situation, on how data is to be counted and presented. Currently, the federal government and the states recently came to the agreement or decision to report both confirmed and suspected cases. People who "assume" that a state is changing their methodology just on a whim, are making an incorrect assumption. You should really not get your "information" from main stream media (MSM), because of the bias in reporting involved. There are many healthcare reporting guidelines which come from agreements at levels which MSM doesn't have access, or they are too lazy to perform research while wanting to be the first to report, versus being the most correct and accurate. They know what gets people talking about their reporting. And if that reporting drives page visits and then subsequent advertising revenue. . . you are just being manipulated for revenue.

And yes, medical records do get audited from time to time, and there are standards reviews by governments and CMS. And I agree there is not a lot of other news or happenings to get people agitated, if that's what their preference is, but the reporting standards news is not something to get your underwear in a bunch about.

sportsguy with input from coachk

Originally Posted by DianeM (Post 1747456)

Fredo has decided that 3700 people who died of say heart attacks will be categorized as covid death because, without being tested, they probably would have contracted it anyway. Great way to screw up actual results. Guess he gets a discount on body bags if it’s for a covid related death.

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 1747094)

The CDC wants probable COVID related deaths to be reported. Tests are not being wasted on dead people. It is also well recognized that there are significant numbers of false negative tests in people who have the disease.

NY is not manipulating the data, they are conforming to what should be a national standard as articulated by the CDC.

No agency is faking death records in NY.

Here are the applicable lines, read the whole document to increase your understanding

"In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as “probable” or “presumed.” In these instances, certifiers should use their best clinical judgement in determining if a COVID–19 infection was likely"

Originally Posted by DianeM (Post 1747456)

I said what was transmitted to me by people actually living there and digesting local news.

Originally Posted by chet2020 (Post 1748355)

The Fed government pays states or cities for C-19 deaths? News to me.