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-   -   First Look at Proposed areas south of Monarch Grove (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/first-look-proposed-areas-south-monarch-grove-315175/)

Goldwingnut 01-16-2021 08:21 PM

First Look at Proposed areas south of Monarch Grove
 
1 Attachment(s)
The first look at what is coming in the area south of Monarch Grove has just appeared.

South of Monarch Grove is going to be residential according to the attached drawing.

North of McNeill Drive between Corbin Trail and Bexley Trail is recreation and according to other drawings another Pitch & Putt and another executive course.

This will make the southern bridge across SR92 one step closer to a reality.

tophcfa 01-16-2021 11:28 PM

Thanks for the updates, we took a ride down to the areas being developed a couple days ago and were totally amazed at the amount of dirt being pushed around. Thousands of new homes already built with many thousands more in the works. It seems like lots of recreational stuff is in the works, but there is a serious dearth of Championship Golf. Let’s hope the next generation of retirees don’t get tired of walking the same trails every day and playing pitch and put.

kansasr 01-17-2021 06:53 AM

Thanks for sharing. What is the source for these drawings?

Goldwingnut 01-17-2021 08:23 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 1888602)
Thanks for the updates, we took a ride down to the areas being developed a couple days ago and were totally amazed at the amount of dirt being pushed around. Thousands of new homes already built with many thousands more in the works. It seems like lots of recreational stuff is in the works, but there is a serious dearth of Championship Golf. Let’s hope the next generation of retirees don’t get tired of walking the same trails every day and playing pitch and put.

Yes, yes, yes, we all know all you care about is championship courses, we've all seen you posts a hundred times over now.
18 holes north of the turnpike now under construction
and 18 and a 27-hole course announced for south of Monarch Grove
hardly a dearth of courses.
When you look at the total number of houses in the area compared to number of holes of championship play the south end is coming out ahead once complete.

Don't lose sight of the fact that the championship courses ARE NOT AMENITIES, they are private businesses that must have customers to survive. No homes - no customers - no championship courses.

South of SR44 has only recently reached the point of being able to economically support a championship course. Historically it averages about 175 homes per hole are needed to support a championship course. The attached reflects the number of holes of championship golf available over time as new villages and courses are built north of SR44. Statistically, they appear right on track.

Tom359 01-17-2021 12:15 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Hmmmm...nothing I have seen from the developer has indicated there will be any residential directly south of Monarch Grove. In the developer's latest update video, they show the entire area south of Monarch Grove will be recreational all the way down to 470, which they are renaming Central Parkway. See the attached screenshot from the video. There will be residential south of 470, they mention having an area that is not 55+ for families that work in and around TV.

John41 01-17-2021 02:40 PM

Glad they are adding more pitch and putt

Goldwingnut 01-17-2021 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom359 (Post 1888857)
Hmmmm...nothing I have seen from the developer has indicated there will be any residential directly south of Monarch Grove. In the developer's latest update video, they show the entire area south of Monarch Grove will be recreational all the way down to 470, which they are renaming Central Parkway. See the attached screenshot from the video. There will be residential south of 470, they mention having an area that is not 55+ for families that work in and around TV.

Hmmm...
Let's think about this for just a minute. The Developer's principal business is building retirement communities. The image you posted shows the golf courses, recreational areas, commercial areas, the new hospital facilities, etc. highlighted in various colors. That would make the rest of the areas what?

Let's think about this for a minute more.

What would it be?

Don't give up yet, it will come to you?

What is it again that they are in the business building?

What is it that is required to support these new recreation facilities, golf courses, and businesses?

Oh, what could it be?

Let me guess...
Cow pastures? Nope cows don't like to play golf.
Farmland? Naa, the land isn't that great to support a cash crop.
I know, a huge car dealership... doubtful.

Of course it's all residential areas south of Monarch Grove! What isn't shown as something else will be homes!
What else would it be?
Do we have to be told they are building houses around a golf course in this community?
They are highlighting what isn't homes and what will make those new homes appealing to buy.

tophcfa 01-17-2021 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut (Post 1888686)
Yes, yes, yes, we all know all you care about is championship courses, we've all seen you posts a hundred times over now.
18 holes north of the turnpike now under construction
and 18 and a 27-hole course announced for south of Monarch Grove
hardly a dearth of courses.
When you look at the total number of houses in the area compared to number of holes of championship play the south end is coming out ahead once complete.

Don't lose sight of the fact that the championship courses ARE NOT AMENITIES, they are private businesses that must have customers to survive. No homes - no customers - no championship courses.

South of SR44 has only recently reached the point of being able to economically support a championship course. Historically it averages about 175 homes per hole are needed to support a championship course. The attached reflects the number of holes of championship golf available over time as new villages and courses are built north of SR44. Statistically, they appear right on track.

Goldwingnut, thanks for posting the excellent data chart. Very interesting information. I especially enjoyed seeing the chronological order of each Village built north of 44. As interesting as the chart is, I am not drawing the same conclusion that statistically they are on track based on historic data. Since the data provided is only updated through 2015, some pro forma statistics had to be calculated to determine just how on track Championship golf is relative to the past.

Assuming 2,500 new homes are added per year, the current homes per hole number stands around 232, well above the historical average of 175. Assuming the additional 63 holes announced are completed by the end of 2023, along with another 7,500 homes, there will be about 213 homes per hole, still well above the historical average of 175. And since no other holes are planned, that number will again begin to increase as more homes are added. Based on the data, the only logical conclusion that can be drawn is that Championship Golf has been significantly de-emphasized relative to historical standards.

Since my primary passion is lap swimming, with golf being a distant second, I would love to see the same data showing the number of sports pools to homes? And as always, thank you for continually providing excellent information.

VApeople 01-17-2021 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom359 (Post 1888857)
In the developer's latest update video, they show the entire area south of Monarch Grove will be recreational all the way down to 470

That is incorrect.

The map you posted shows the layout for a golf course south of Monarch Grove. It is obvious there will be houses all around the course, just like there are houses around the existing golf courses.

Florida17 01-18-2021 07:27 AM

Ask about blasting.

Hape2Bhr 01-18-2021 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut (Post 1888686)
Yes, yes, yes, we all know all you care about is championship courses, we've all seen you posts a hundred times over now.
18 holes north of the turnpike now under construction
and 18 and a 27-hole course announced for south of Monarch Grove
hardly a dearth of courses.
When you look at the total number of houses in the area compared to number of holes of championship play the south end is coming out ahead once complete.

Don't lose sight of the fact that the championship courses ARE NOT AMENITIES, they are private businesses that must have customers to survive. No homes - no customers - no championship courses.

South of SR44 has only recently reached the point of being able to economically support a championship course. Historically it averages about 175 homes per hole are needed to support a championship course. The attached reflects the number of holes of championship golf available over time as new villages and courses are built north of SR44. Statistically, they appear right on track.

And of course, the further south home building continues, the closer we get to more outside public golf courses which are generally much less expensive and in better condition because they overseed. :a040:

Villages Kahuna 01-18-2021 07:34 AM

Golf Course-to-House Ratio
 
Don’t forget that golf is becoming a decidedly less popular recreational activity. Virtually all current statistics indicate a pretty dramatic decline in the popularity of the game. So the Developer may be ahead of the game by making relatively minor adjustments to the golf course-to-house ratio in favor of other types of Rec facilities.

mk1126 01-18-2021 08:29 AM

Plans
 
Hmmm, Where exactly is the venue for "Scooter"to play in there???

Goldwingnut 01-18-2021 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mk1126 (Post 1889180)
Hmmm, Where exactly is the venue for "Scooter"to play in there???

These are secrets, details of which are yet to be revealed.

DIver0258 01-18-2021 08:51 AM

Drone Field???????
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut (Post 1888947)
Hmmm...
Let's think about this for just a minute. The Developer's principal business is building retirement communities. The image you posted shows the golf courses, recreational areas, commercial areas, the new hospital facilities, etc. highlighted in various colors. That would make the rest of the areas what?

Let's think about this for a minute more.

What would it be?

Don't give up yet, it will come to you?

What is it again that they are in the business building?

What is it that is required to support these new recreation facilities, golf courses, and businesses?

Oh, what could it be?

Let me guess...
Cow pastures? Nope cows don't like to play golf.
Farmland? Naa, the land isn't that great to support a cash crop.
I know, a huge car dealership... doubtful.

Of course it's all residential areas south of Monarch Grove! What isn't shown as something else will be homes!
What else would it be?
Do we have to be told they are building houses around a golf course in this community?
They are highlighting what isn't homes and what will make those new homes appealing to buy.

Hmmmm a UAV field, I apologize....Common sense tells me the developer would not put a golf course directly behind existing homes. Lots bordering golf courses bring a premium. This fact lead me to believe since the first maps provided there would be more residential behind Monarch Grove that would transition into the championship golf being built west of the turnpike. I also noticed that it looks like a couple of courses will be constructed off of Meggisun Road. Thanks for the Information Don!


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