Heron Hole #4 Deplorable Conditions
 

Golfers help residents next to Hole #4 Heron correct dangerous conditions. Often flooded, mosquitoes (West Nile), stench & dangerous golf cart diversions from the flooded cart path up along steep bank of so-called drain to the property line. Path sometimes under 2' of water. Reaching 300 ' lg. & 150 'w. Pix. proof.
Bought house (2020) & $120k in reno. during Covid year. Moved in 04/21. Pix of 7x it became a lake, never drying. We thought storm drain = no water problem. A non-functioning not clogged French Drain. BEEN WET SINCE April 11, 2021. ONLY HOLE NOT TIED TO RETENTION PONDS. Water, tee - green goes to small 70'w area b/t path & property line, up to 10-15 ft. from line.
Due to stench, can't open windows/use lanai in PM. We & neighbors battling TV to correct issue.

Your help is needed! Only pos. comments, neg. does no good! Express disgust to:

Mitch Leininger
Dir. Exec. Golf Course Maint.
Ph# 352-674-1885
Email -- Mitch.Leininger@DistrictGov.Org

Thank you!

That’s a shame we live in the village of Charlotte and drive up to her own because that’s our favorite course I didn’t notice the standing water on hole number four I believe that’s the par for Hole will be up there soon and I’d be happy to help out

vJust played Heron Thursday, didn’t notice the water you speak of, but wasn’t looking for it either. Hole 4 is the dogleg around that big tree. It has scrub sand area along cart path and through the trees. I’m not a fan of scrub sand, but I know it’s used a lot when grass won’t grow. I’ll pay attention next time I play, and be happy to send thoughts to Mr Leininger.

Heron Hole #4 Deplorable Conditions
 

The area was devoid of significant water on Thurs. but on Friday it was a different story. Still 2 ponds today. It is on the residential side (left) just down from the tee box before the tree cluster. Look for the area (only 30 ft. from path) that looks like a funnel. Thanks again.

Heron Hole #4 Deplorable Conditions
 

The area was devoid of significant water on Thurs. but on Friday it was a different story, one large pond formed covering path. Still 2 ponds today. It is on the residential side (left) just down from the tee box before the tree cluster. Look for the area (only 30 ft. from path) that looks like a funnel. Dry season is coming and it will not be so severe. Come April it will start again. Attached is from Friday b/f the 2 areas became 1. Thanks again.

Definitely a low area, especially with lots of rain. It does appear to go away. But I am only passing thru.

The water of one rain storm takes at least a week to dissipate and leaves behind muck and stench until the next rain.

I almost bought a home there 8 years ago. Love the area. Guess I'm glad I'm just passing thru.

Heron Hole #4 Deplorable Conditions
 

Thank you everyone for the support! I will post a couple of photos, from April until now tomorrow, since I have now figured out how to do it. It will surprise people. Golfers only pass by this situation, see it, shake their heads (seen it) and move on. We've dealt with it 24/7 since APRIL. With that said, can someone answer this question please, if we decide to cut bait and move because of this issue can we list the house as water front property? Just saying! Sent photos to Mitch Leininger last Friday (storm date) asking for a contingency plan for flood issue (water over golf cart path). Crickets as a response. Water, muck, mosquitoes, and stench still exist as of this post. Resolution of this issue will benefit the golfers and the residents! Just wait until next Spring!

Thanks again to everyone!!!

Heron Hole #4 Deplorable Conditions
 

More photos are attached. Don't know how many I can attach. They are from:
Photos 1 &2 April 11
Photos 3, 4 &5 June 13

These are not the only dates. Since April 7 documented incidents thus far!

Thanks again!

Heron Hole #4 Deplorable Conditions
 

A few more Photos:
Photos 1 & 2 Sept. 19

Heron Hole #4 Deplorable Conditions
 

Just thought we would post updated pix from 11/11 rain storm. Now exactly, to the date, 7 months of wet, muddy, swamp like conditions. No where, that we know of, in TV is a feature like this 30-35 feet from a residents master bedroom. Second generation Villager!

Photos 1 & 2 were taken 11/10 nearly 1 week after previous
storm on 11/4 into 11/5

Photos 3 & 4 are from this morning of 11/11 storm.

It will stay like this, barring no rain or watering of fairway, for at least 1 week.

Thank you everyone for the support!

Wow

Heron Hole #4 Deplorable Conditions
 

PLEASE contact Executive golf and complain, health issues,safety, stench, etc. The more people who complain the sooner this can be corrected. It will benefit both the golfers and residents near this cesspool. Use Mr. Leininger's email contact because than you have a record of the contact.

Heron Hole #4 Deplorable Conditions
 

Photo taken today 11/12 09:47 am from Master Bedroom window looking out. The ponding is much smaller in comparison to past flooding, they usually join together. Who in their right mind wants to see and smell this West Nile breeding cesspool every day for 7 months? If we had known this was not a REAL DRAIN but a NON FUNCTIONING FRENCH DRAIN we would not have bought the house!!! Neighbors are sick of it too!!! Timing of golfer was spot on to give size differential - mild rain (total quantity) last night. Note the little white post in the upper left corner of center pane. Several times the pond has reached that stake and came up to 25 ft. from Master bedroom.

The retention ponds are lined. A French Drain only soaks into the substrate below. The Substrate is LIMESTONE. It has been proven that erosion of the substrate, limestone, causes sink holes. Hence French Drains are contributory to this erosion. It does not take an engineer/geophysicist to figure this out. Just plain common sense and an ability to read and watch the news! It will cost TV money to correct this. Cheaper for TV to fix the issue than repair house/houses that are affected by sink holes or the medical bills related to West Nile and others caused by the mosquito infestation. Also the potential for respiratory ailments possibly related to the stench (airborne mold/mildew) generated by the cesspool.

Send complaint emails to Exec. Golf Mitch Leininger Mitch.Leininger@DistrictGov.Org so you have a record of doing so!

Thank you everyone for the support.

It is important to kerp in mind that the golf courses are the secondary form of flood control in TV. They are built and designed to hold some of the excessive water run off from storms.
If you live along a retention pond or golf course you need to understand that. Kelsey Circle up north has a huge retention pond. I saw one house on the circle that was for sale listed “Lake Front view!”
I feel for your issue but I always wonder about people that don’t want any comments that don’t support their issue.
I agree and sympathize with you but you bought property next to a water control zone, a golf course!

Heron Hole #4 Deplorable Conditions
 

Yes we bought next to a golf course. We believed that seeing a slotted 18"-24" drain cover that it was a STORM drain to remove water to the retention ponds. Where else does it do this 25-30 ft. from houses EVERY time it rains and remains a constant stagnant mess? I have not seen it until here, 2nd generation Villager.

Also, we are very aware that the courses are ( your key word) SECONDARY flood areas. They are not PRIMARY flood areas like this one is. This area floods constantly as the entire hole, from tee box to the green flows to this area and not to a REAL RETENTION pond as the rest of the holes on Heron do.

There is a big RETENTION POND directly behind the green about 75-100 ft. away! The green is the beginning of this so called "system" that flows the opposite way to about 150' towards the tee box to a sump well drain, than changes direction slightly (still heading towards the tee box) to a sump well drain about 15-20 ft. fairway side of cart path. It than takes an almost 90 degree turn under the cart path to the residential side into the FRENCH DRAIN. Did the leg work with a lower level Villages Exec. Golf Maintenance Supervisor to establish this.

The water flows the WRONG way and should go to that RETENTION pond!

F.Y.I. the area in question is not a RETENTION POND, it is a FRENCH DRAIN that was installed sometime between when the golf course was completed and the houses were built. It was an after thought! Per the lower level Villages Exec. Golf Maintenance Supervisor they have no record of this "drain" on their utility maps. The lower level employees all agree with us that this is an issue and needs correction.

Correcting the problem will not affect the "Secondary flood area" functionality of this hole but it will get the water flowing to the correct area THE RETENTION POND. The challenge is convincing the higher ups that there is a problem.

Thanks for the response.

The retention ponds are the “flood control” not the golf course. The course should drain into the ponds in a reasonable time and it appears to not be the case here. Standing water for days at a time is a health hazard to the residents and for that matter also the golfers.

Heron Hole #4 Deplorable Conditions
 

:clap2::MOJE_whot::a040::bigbow: Thank you justjim. Glad to see some common sense. Last rain was last Thursday-Friday. Still a muddy mess. Will continue as muddy mess, baring no rain or watering, for at least another week. TV preaches to residents to avoid standing water, ie. birdbaths etc.(albeit smaller scale) to help control infected mosquitos, flies, etc. They do not practice what they preach! Keep flooding, pun intended, Mitch Leininger (info in my original post) with emails, along with pictures of this nasty health, safety, optical, and olfactory condition.

UPDATE: As of today still a spongy wet mud hole almost 8 months after our first photographic documentation! We guess if we are forced to sell due to the 8 months with water , muck, mosquitoes, stench, possible related health issues, 25-30 feet from master bedroom, we could list this house as waterfront. Not the outdoor quality of life that we expected! We did not want a preserve front property for just the same reasons. It is a French drain not a REAL drain that is dangerous for golfers and residents alike! FRENCH DRAINS contribute to SINK HOLES. It might be dry just in time for the Spring Rains. No action from TV Exec. Golf. thus far.

Why don’t you complain to the proper people instead of complaining on this website?

You may not have noticed
 

Complaints have been made to the management and they are being unresponsive. This is a request for assistance by way of a "write in" campaign to get the powers that be to acknowledge the problem and take the necessary steps to fix said problem.
Your suggestion is appreciated, noted and already acted upon.
My opinion is it would be less costly, good public relations and wise for this problem to be fixed sooner than later.

Blah Blah Blah!!! Why don't you read the entire thread before complaining about this post. You would not have wasted your time with such a ridiculous response! Photos, letters, and emails have been sent to TV Exec. Golf prior to beginning this post!

:bigbow:Thank you fdpaq0580 for actually reading the entire thread unlike Sheena0904. There is a lot going on behind the scenes that Sheena0904 is completely clueless about. We have The Villages Home Owners Advocates (HOA) support. The VP physically met with us and our neighbors on site and observed and experienced the issue.

Hey Good Luck!

Heron Hole 4
 

Played there twice in the past month and saw no standing water on hole 4
However we have not had a good rain in quite some time.

Heron Hole #4 Deplorable Conditions Update
 

JayDub, Yes you are correct that as of December no standing stagnant water- we are in dry season. Wait until the end of March beginning of April for rainy season.

A more significant issue has now developed as feared. A sink hole (as The Villages calls it "Depression") opened up sometime between Sunday Evening February 20 and Monday February 21(President's Day) approximately 12:20 in the afternoon. Located exactly 24 feet West of the non-functioning drain. Approximately 3 feet in diameter and about 10 inches deep. TV Exec. Golf was notified, came and placed cones and roped off the area. Easy to find.

An employee for an Engineering Company was on sight 3/3/22 at approximately 4:00. He used a 10 foot probing rod and it went all the way in as if it was going thru butter. He is ordering that Ground Penetrating Radar scan of the area be conducted to determine the extent of the issue.

Now there are no more excuses. The situation needs correction! Photos are attached. The sink hole has expanded some since the photos were taken.

Thanks. I'll just have to hit a fade and keep my ball out to the right...:)

Sink hole

Your drive needs to clear the trees and keep it right.

Seriously I hope they fix the problem.

Heron Hole #4 Deplorable Conditions Update
 

There was a PWAC/SLAD budget meeting today 3/21/22 at 8:30am Sea Breeze Rec. Center. The result was that there are serious health and safety issues along with a recent issue of a "depression" 24 feet from the non drain. No one can tell us this is coincidental, they are most definitely related. There is an immediate need to make a long term permanent solution to the water flow.

Due to the issues addressed, there has been an expedited GPR (ground penetrating radar) ordered. The "depression" was approximately 3 feet round and 8 inches deep when discovered Pres. Day. Circumference is still about the same but it is now 10 inches deep as of yesterday. The PWAC/SLAD approved a $100,000 budget for further studies as a "stepping off" point per Mr. Mitch Leininger Exec. Golf.

This issue has been approved and will be started before the fiscal budget in October is approved.

To those that emailed support: Thank you so very much! Covid kept people confined to their property BUT the stench kept us confined to our 4 walls!

Hopefully they will get it straight. Beautiful course so let's keep it that way.

Heron Hole #4 Deplorable Conditions Update
 

:boxing2::boxing2::boxing2:Here is the Villages News online article pertaining to this cesspool for all to read. Add this to their main email address: /2022/03/21/100000-renovation-to-be-expedited-at-frequently-flooded-golf-course/. The article was posted immediately after the PWAC/SLAD meeting.

I tried to attach the direct link and apparently it is censored!:ohdear:

Russian tanks have been churning up the fairways of Kyiv Golf Club, which occupies a dominant walled site on elevated terrain about 50 kilometres to the north-west of Ukraine’s capital city.

The owners are horrified by the intrusion, which has seen the killing of at least one security guard. Yet with a resilience typical of this extraordinary nation, they are already planning extensive refurbishment when the situation permits.
And some complain about water on a course it’s built in a swamp!

Heron Hole #4 Deplorable Conditions Update
 

We feel sorry for the people of the Ukraine. No doubt. This issue is not relevant to their situation! May we remind you, you are in The Villages which is not the Ukraine, in case if you might have forgotten. You do not live there, we do not live there. Just like you apparently do not live in this neighborhood, but we do. Contrary to what you say, this area is not "built in a swamp". We've learned more about this neighborhood & Heron golf course in less than 1 full year living in our house than almost anyone who has been here 15+ yrs. including Exec. Golf employees.

You do not have something man made causing extreme flooding 25 ft. from your head when you are trying to sleep. You do not have to keep your windows closed nor able to enjoy your lanai when the stench is in full swing.

Covid kept almost all confined to their properties for many months. You could at-least spend time in your outdoor space, we could not. Civid, mosquitoes and stench kept us confined to our 4 walls. I wonder if you would have traded places with us? Doubt it!

So watch the movie "ARGO" (specifically Alan Arkin's character Lester Siegel) and figure out what the acronym stood for.

I have been told by a few employees working at the golf courses that they have been very clearly instructed by their employer to never say the “S” word (sinkhole) and always refer to them as “depressions”. It’s kind of insulting that the Villages thinks the residents are stupid enough to not see through this. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig.

These people obviously have way too much time on their hands. I understand the issue is frustrating but they have posted on this thread like 20 times to everyone to see that they are complaining. They were successful at getting some resolve, leave it that instead of ranting on TOTV.

Heron Hole #4 Deplorable Conditions Update
 

:bigbow::bigbow::a040::a040::clap2::clap2:

Thank you Tophcfa. You are a person with common sense and 100% correct! If it were a 20ft. around and 10 ft. deep hole TV would still call it a "depression". This "depression" is only 24 feet West of the non working French drain (only approximately 50 ft. from our house) and may only be 3 ft by 10 inches currently, but what is disturbing was the preliminary findings.

An employee of an engineering company was able to completely insert a 10 ft. long 1 inch diameter metal probe to its handle, all around the hole, with almost zero resistance, as if it was going thru soft butter. He stated "I can't find a bottom. I am ordering a GPR (ground penetrating radar) scan of the area to determine the extent of the issue". He, very conveniently, did not have a business card with him.

After winning at the PWAC/SLAD meeting, we now know what David went thru against Goliath! BUT after numerous unanswered emails and phone calls, TV is now taking us seriously! We will believe what they said in the meeting when we see "the boots on the ground" doing the work. The minutes of the meeting are public record!

We wonder if TV will share with the neighbors the results of the GPR? If not, we know the next step to take! :boxing2::boxing2::boxing2:

Heron Hole #4 Deplorable Conditions Update
 

"These people obviously have way too much time on their hands." Please!!! You do not know us! We are busier now than when we were working. We most definitely wish we did not have to resort to TOTV due to the total lack of Governmental response. This has not been an enjoyable experience but it was necessary.

Most postings from us have contained additional info for all. When dealing with a non-responsive Governmental Entity you MUST DOCUMENT AND BE PERSISTANT. If you lived with this cesspool behind you, I think you certainly would have done the same - document and be persistent - or as you put it "they are complaining".

During Covid almost everyone was confined to their property. You were able to enjoy your outdoor space, not us. Due to Covid, mosquitoes, and stench those of us near this cesspool were confined to our 4 walls. Would you have been willing to trade spaces with anyone of us? I highly doubt it!!!

We hope you do not have to go thru something like this yourself! If you have to, our info might be helpful to you. You then might understand the gravity of the situation along with the amount of time, research, meetings, presentations, and effort required behind the scenes! The postings take very little time in comparison. Believe us, we have much better things to do than TOTV! Have a great life!