Meggison Safety Issues
 

The other paper has an article called “Meggison Safety Issues”. In it residents express their displeasure of traffic safety issues now and the thought of the Bexley Bridge opening soon (opens this summer). The logistical nightmare has set in with the popularity of Sawgrass Grove and the necessity for crossing of golf carts etc at the Citrus Grove gate where no one seems to stop. It’s a crap shoot at best to make it across at times with a bicycle or golf cart because, well frankly no one slows down or stops!

Why didn’t the “Developer” foresee this calamity? Obviously at this point, the best thing to do would be to put in a gate shack like they did in Pinellas or Belle Meade. I wonder if the dollar has taken precedence over any concern whatsoever to the sustainability of the community?

https://www.**************.com/

I have to agree, hard to understand what they were thinking with the design of that gates.

They also appear to have discontinued having sidewalks to connect pedestrians to the MMP's. You have to walk in the street near several gates in the new areas to get to a MMP.

A Mess
 

Yep…

If you further examine the issue, all golf cart traffic from the Lake Denham, Newell, Citrus Grove and St. Catherine etc must use the intersection at the Citrus Grove gates to cross Meggison (the location of the entire village of Cason Hammock necessitated this).

The absence of separate golf cart lanes and the fact that golf cart lanes are located only on the main road starting at the gate mandate this. People have to use this intersection to access the Cason Hammock tunnel which is the main traffic artery for access to the bridge.

It’s a mess because the transition from roadway golf cart lanes to actual paths happens exactly at that point near the foot of Bexley Trail…

Why do pedestrians want to get on an MMP, where they can get run down by a golf cart? Pedestrians can use the walking/biking paths where golf carts are forbidden.

Once the gates are actually in place things should improve. Southbound cars will be paced by the gates and northbound cars will back up waiting for the get to open. As it is now, cars don't slow down in either direction making it difficult to find a gap between them to cross.

Not the best design for a golf cart crossing of the only route into and out of all that area. The current design is something similar to an at-grade crossing of Buena Vista or Morse near 466. An at-grade crossing would be a bad idea on Buena Vista and it is a bad idea in that section of Meggison.

Let's hope they get the gates installed before we read about a car hitting a golf cart there.

What is "the Citrus Grove gate"?

To my knowledge, there is no Citrus Grove gate. There are two roads, Kaolin and St. Catherine Circle, that people can use to leave Citrus Grove and pull onto Meggison.

It is the same situation for people who live in the several villages along Pinellas and Hillsborough. Since it works well for those villages, I guess the Developer thought it would work well for Citrus Grove, Newell, Lake Denham, etc.

It’s located on Meggison just after the circle at Sawgrass traveling South East. It says Citrus Grove on the entrance where gates used to be. I believe someone thought the gates would slow cars down, but it does nothing because 2 lanes go in and two lanes exit. One of the lanes is a merge into the other at that gate at exactly the point where golf carts etc cross. It’s a mess. They have removed the gates and all that is there now are two stop signs and the Citrus Grove display. When the gates were in, traffic stopped and stacked into the circle in front of Sawgrass.

Believe it or not, but some people walk to shops, rec centers, pools etc. and unless you fancy walking on the roads, MMP's are your best chance of survival.

South of 44, there are a few ommissions that would have made life easier;

A tunnel under Meggison somewhere near Saw Grass.

A round-about in front of the entrance to the Village of Bradford.

And another round-about in front of the entrance to the Village of Chitty Chatty.

I'm not familiar with the part of the Villages you're all talking about, so please help me understand:

Are the walking/biking paths serving the same function as the MMPs, for pedestrians and bicycle riders? In other words - can you get to the walking path from the same spot as you can get to the MMP, and will that walking path then lead the walker to the same destination(s) as the MMP?

I often walk to the postal station, and ride my bicycle all over the east side of the Villages. We have a very small MMP running from the golf cart bridge, right through Paradise Park, and out to the public side road that leads to a few doctors' offices and one of the Villages gates. Other than that, we have no MMPs at all. We do have walking trails, but I'd have to walk from my house, around a mile down the road, to get to it. If I'm walking to Walmart, that's WAY out of my way, and it won't connect me with Walmart at all.

If the situation with your side of the Villages means the walking paths are just for exercise/getting fresh air within a confined location - and the MMPs are the connections from one village to another, or from a village area to a commercial area, or connecting two commercial areas - then no. You can't just use the walking path instead of the MMP. The MMP exists to accommodate walkers, bicycle riders, and golf carts. The walking/bike paths would be more for recreation, rather than transportation.

On my side of the Villages, we just do everything on the streets - we don't even have sidewalks other than the short stretch from the Fire department to the Rec center driveway.

Between 466 and 44 there are many more MMPs. These are paved paths that run alongside many of the higher-speed roads particularly 466, 466A, Buena Vista, and Morse. The MMPs provide separation between automotive traffic and golf carts, bicycles, and pedestrians.

South of 44, many of the paved paths have been restricted to bicycles and pedestrians only with the golf carts put into the separate lanes on the side of the roads (think Morse above 466).

While walking paths north of 44 are relatively short paths for experiencing nature, south of 44 there are many miles of walking/biking paths. In some areas south of 44, the paved paths that run parallel to the road look exactly like the MMPs north of 44 except they are actually restricted walking/biking paths.

To the point of this thread, the MMP that passes Sawgrass going south becomes a restricted walking/biking path immediately after the Citrus Grove gate. The path continues south and looks exactly the same but north of the gate it is a traditional MMP while south of the gate it is restricted. It is at this point that southbound carts need to cross Meggison to continue on the roadway.

If you are not familiar with the roads and paths south of 44, I doubt I can give an explanation that will make sense to you. It would be better for you to drive down there and see how wonderful it is.

There are plenty of walking/biking paths alongside the roads and I can't understand why anyone would ever consider walking on an MMP.

In the Southern area, there are nice walking/biking paths, so there is no need to walk in the roads or the dreaded MMPs.

Because where there is an MMP there is rarely a walking path. The choice is usually between walking on the MMP with golf carts going 29mph or walking on the road with cars and trucks going 40mph.

another lack of thinking was reducing Meggison from 4 to 2 lanes near Mickey Lee Pitch and Putt. Did they not have a clue that traffic would migrate to Meggison to get to the Turnpike at 470? Unintended consequences of having the State not put in the planned Turnpike entrance where Everglades Rec Center is so that could be built. Very short sighted.

As long as you can walk on a walking path to get from point A to point B, in the same way you can use an MMP to do that, then I agree. But if the walking paths are limited in their function - and can only get you through a pretty area, but you have to leave the walking path and go onto a street or MMP to get to the nearest store, then - there's your answer "why" anyone would ever consider walking on an MMP.

I'm sure it's wonderful, I'm not criticizing it. You asked a question. I answered it, given my limited understanding of the situation down there.

Yeah, I think you are right about there not being a walking path when there is an MMP.

In the Northern area, the 40 mph roads like Pinellas and Moyer have a crummy little sidewalk one foot away from the cart lane. In the Southern area, the 40 mph roads like Fenney way, Marsh Bend Trail (above warm Springs Road), and Meggison (past Sawgrass) have wide walking/biking paths several feet away from the roadway.

On Sunday we took a nice bike ride through Lake Denham and the new paths are great.

So to help me clear up a confusion on my part. To my understanding from the day we moved here all aspects of the traffic design of county roads and contact with mixing modes of transportation must meet requirements of Florida Department of Transportation and has nothing to do with the Morse clan. Correct?

It’s a MULTI-modal path meaning multiple modes of travel and walking is a mode of transportation. Deal with it! 🤦🏼

I think the walking path that goes from Rouddel to the Citrus Grove crossing needs to be made into a MMP before someone in a cart gets crunched by cars. Very few people are on that walking path. It was a big mistake for Cason Hammock residents to have to cross here to get home. I've seen many carts just cut across and go around the roundabout at St. Catherine on the street rather than cross in Citrus Grove.

Yes, I can deal with it by never walking on an MMP.

We use that walking path on occasion.

I completely agree.

If I owned a golf cart and had the misfortune to live in Cason Hammock, I would probably do the same thing.

Moyer Loop and Pinellas DO NOT have 40 mph speed limits. They are posted at 30 mph...

I'm pretty sure it's the same with Fenney Way and Marsh Bend Trail...

Of course you are correct.

I was responding to post #14 where the guy mentioned trucks driving 40 mph and I responded in kind.

Not true. There are many times you have to use the mmp because there is no alternative. Here are some examples:
If I was walking from sawgrass to any of the villages south of Meggison I’d have to use the mmp.

If I wanted to walk to aviary rec ctr, or to Hawkins, from St Catherine, mmp is my only option.

Walk from aviary to anywhere you need to use mmp

One possible solution would be to put in a stoplight at the golf cart crossing, like they have up at Colony for golf cart traffic going north and south on Morse. It was really very poor planning at this location, there should have been a tunnel to cross Meggison.

How true!! At least lately, the Wildwood Police have been ticketing speeding golf carts and cars. Glad to see it happening!!

Meggison south of Sawgrass will get some relief once the Bridge and McNeill are in place.

McNeill will be a 4 lane regional road and the fastest path to 470/Turnpike.

What "villages south of Meggison" are you referring to? I don't think the MMP goes south of Sawgrass.


Yeah, that is when we stop walking and drive our car.

When St. Cats was being built, we would park at Aviary, cross Morse on foot, and walk through St. Cats, but we do not do that anymore. We love the walking trail around the swamp in Hawkins. We park our car at the pool and go from there.

I just don't get it. I cross Meggison all the time at that "dangerous" intersection everyone seems to complain about and have never had a problem. It is only dangerous if the cart driver pulls out in front of a moving vehicle. Most of the complainers are just too impatient (entitled) to wait until the roadway is clear. If you cannot navigate Meggison safely & easily, as I do almost daily, then it is time to turn in your driver's license.

Safety Gates
 

Perhaps if the gates were put back up? They have been taken off for the past few weeks. They stopped moving cars better than the Stop signs no one stops for.

Yes, you have to walk on the MMP for about 100 yards leaving Sawgrass but then, at the Meggison crossing that this post is about, a Pathway starts and goes nearly all the way to 470 - so no need to do MPP for Newell, Lake Denham or Dabney. You do need to cross Meggison twice though at marked crosswalks.

They need to change where the carts cross Meggison by extending the MMP down to the intersection where the power lines are by the Citrus Grove pool by widening the current ped path for cart use. You can’t put a guard house there as the traffic would back up over the bridge and around the circle. This modification would make it less convenient for golf carts to get to the bridge, the Southern oaks course or Cason Hammock (and future southern carts to get to Sawgrass) but make it much much safer as Meggison is only two lanes at that point. Unless they install a tunnel under Meggison this is the easiest solution to a major safety issue. It is only a matter of time until there is a serious accident at this crossing. Please stop at the stop sign at the Citrus Grove gate - it’s the only chance the carts have to safety cross the road.

I live in the area and use this MMP Crossing almost daily. I understand the concern about the vehicle gates being some distance from the MMP Crossing but I have never had a problem. Like everywhere else I drive, Vehicular or Golf Cart, be cautious and drive defensively.

You are wrong.

I attended the County Commission Board meeting this week, and there was so much discussion about people not stopping at the Citrus Grove gate. It was a bit nonsensical because if the gates were actually installed, cars WOULD be stopping! I have no idea why they took down all four gates and put up little stop signs that don’t really look like legitimate signs. They are on temporary little folding posts and sometimes are laying down. It’s all a mess. The County Administrator tells us this was all built to engineer’s specs but clearly there was no foresight or real planning that took place when they determined the location of the Citrus Grove gate; ended the MMP (putting golf carts on a main thoroughfare); putting in the golf cart crossing; and also, the very narrow streets in this section of the Villages. There are many things we need to petition our District (13) to address. I am going to educate myself on how to get things done with the CDD, starting by attending an orientation. Everyone is talking and complaining, but we need to band together and find out how best to get it fixed! I learned things like this are not resolved at the BOCC.
P.s.-I am sure the gates were removed because they were always being knocked off and had to be repaired but SO WHAT! Supposedly there are cameras taking photos of each vehicle going through, so the District should have teeth to bite these offenders and be able to fine them. C’mon!!

The gate were probably taken down due to the continued construction traffic.

Once that eases, I'm sure they'll put them back up...

The Resident Academy (longer than the CDD Orientation) is also very valuable.

You'll want to note which things are under the purview of the CDD and which are under the purview of the BoCC or even the State. The Villages gates and MMPs/pahts are a CDD issue while the design of the county road (markings, signs, lights) will likely be a BoCC issue.

Exactly….. yesterday while driving my golf cart from Conley toward Sawgrass, there was a Wildwood officer parked maybe 200 ft (plus or minus) on the grass south of the gate watching the traffic go through that gate . He was parked far enough away to be unnoticed until AFTER passing past the gate.

I pulled off the MMP in order to watch to see if he was there to give tickets for blowing through the temporary stop signs at the gate.

Guess what …….NOT ONE SINGLE CAR STOPPED WHILE GOING THROUGH THE GATE !

I watched for about one minute or so and the police officer DID NOT STOP ANY CARS blowing the stop sign. I watched at least a dozen or more cars go by .

Here is my take on it …..

Those temporary stop signs we see at many gates are placed there by Community Watch (in other words, The Villages)

I honestly believe that they are not enforceable (summons wise) as they are not placed there by proper authorities….

I also agree with another poster that a viable solution would be is to turn the walking path between Conley and the Citrus gate into a MMP.

That short paved walking area is actually wider than some of the MMP’s that go behind Fenney towards the Chitty Chatty Bridge over 44

I am pretty sure there are federal and state specifications on STOP SIGNS- color, size. Shape and probably HEIGHT.

Gonna guess, 3 inches from the ground is not to spec - so any ticket would be reversed on appeal.