Update on Morse Felony Charges in Montana Poaching Case
 

For those who are interested in the Morse poaching case (he has 2 felony poaching charges pending in Montana) here is a link to the latest:

http://billingsgazette.com/news/stat...caadfa9b6.html

The Florida game warden who oversaw operations at Morse's and Rainey's ranch, has forfeited bond to resolve charges in the case. He is expected to be a key witness against Morse and his family and friends.

Even though I've been accused of being a Morse suck up I find these actions (if guilty) disgusting. I hope that they are not able to 'buy' their way out of penalties. But my guess is that money, once again, will rule the day.

Thanks for the update.

Think it is more the $600 per hour gaggle of lawyers that the money can afford.

Isn't it Mark Morse who is involved, not Gary Morse, his father?

Mark Gary Morse
 

Right. He and some of his family and friends and/or employees.

Russ, the odds are pretty good that the charges are real. Sadly, these practices (hunting out of season on your own property) are pretty common in big game states. People buy the ranches for the specific purpose of big game hunting. They think the laws don't apply to them because it is their own property. They know the licensing laws, they just don't think they apply to them.

Jail time is very, very rare. Fines are common. Now, if Morse, Rainey, et al. pay the fines and then do the same thing again, you can bet your bottom dollar that Montana will go after them big time and jail will be part of the final outcome. But for the first go-round, it is fines. The reality is that out-of-season hunting is a big money maker for big game states. The hunting licenses are $20K and up, the fines for hunting out of season are priced accordingly. The states don't want to pay for jail/prison time -- they make much more money with the fines.

What I don't understand is why Morse's penalities are so much higher than Rainey's. From everything I've read and from friends in Montana who know the case well, Rainey committed the more heinous offenses. He was the one who allegedly left the carcasses to rot; cut off the legs of an elk to get better pictures. Both hunted out of season. Not sure who was the one who had a couple of carcasses buried.

I do think what occurred is nauseating, but it is not uncommon. It shows a lack of character and, to me, a lack of morality, but it is done all the time. To many hunter/ranch owners, it ranks up there with speeding -- illegal and you pay your ticket if caught, but no big deal. To those who abide by the laws, they cheer when their neighbors are caught but would never dream of reporting them. For law-abiding hunters, these crimes should be punished and are definitely not okay. For non-hunters, these crimes are nauseating.

Sad to hear that Red - they know it goes on but just wait to catch them so they can collect big fines? I guess I'll never understand hunting for game sport.

Russ I agree with you 100% --I have always thought that hunting would only be a sport if you gave the ANIMAL a gun also !!!

:confused:

What about Due Process?
 

Charges have been made but no trial has taken place (in a court room) outside of this forum.

If found guilty, there will probably be stiff fines. However, no one has been tried and been found guilty.

This really has no bearing on life in The Villages. Sure, you can say that the Morse family has no morals by shooting out of season on their own property. It does not concern me. Why does it concern you? Just keep any guns away from my pet Panda. He gets mean around hunters.

It is not like an elected official was caught in a sexual tryst. That is a betrayal of public trust - since they are elected by the people. We can all name a few of those - Gov. Spitzer, Mark Foley, David Vitter, and the governors of South Carolina and of New Jersey.

Amen!
 

:agree::agree::agree::agree:

The dominion over animals, which the Bible states God gave humans, is often confused with domination. It was the intent that the supieror human species, which is supposed to be superior by virtual of its gift of the ability to reason, be the guardians of the less superior animal species. It never ceases to amaze me that this is so often comfused by the supierior species. That is why when the ARA uses the sport of hunting as a reason to not enforce gun control I find it an argument which is on a slippery slops.

Should all of the farms and..
 

I think farms, livestock operations, and meat packing plants should be populated with gun toting animals too.
JJ

Not to mention leather goods manufacturers...

I have never hunted, but sometimes it keeps a population of animals from starving over the winter. The deer population in many places this year must have had it very hard with all the snow.

If you hunt, eat what you kill and/or share it with others... Venison provides a healthy basis for meals in shelters and soup kitchens...

I'm curious why it doesn't concern you. The man who has been charged with these crimes is in control of your community and will be for a while. If any person is found guilty of any felony, would not all of their activities be suspect?
Maybe I'm wrong.


If a guilty verdict is returned, fines are the most likely outcome, but! One state official was quoted as saying, "this is the largest case of this kind in the history of the state." And, it was reported that there were undercover agents on this case for two years. I'm thinking that there is a possibility that the state is going to make this a real example to others. Perhaps telegraphing that regardless of how much money you have, you can't come to our state and do this, and that you can't buy your way out. If they are found guilty, the state will want to "punish" them. Even a $5,000,000 fine is not punishment to some.

Having said all of that. I hope it's all been a gigantic misunderstanding and the parties are not guilty. I don't want to think that the family that has been held in such high esteem would do anything like this.

JLK

I think you need to re-read some of the posts. For example my post said "If guilty" and Red said 'odds are'. Didn't see anyone who said they were guilty without a trial.

I'm not against hunting in general. As Kate says it may be necessary in some cases or used as food in others. I just don't like the 'sport' of it.

Jim --those operations are essential I am talking about the SPORT of hunting for pure pleasure of the kill as it appears Morse and company are accused . I understand population control and the feeding of the hungry.

I just wonder sometimes how many people would be shooting animals(for sport) if they could shoot back !!

Have a great day !! on my way out to the sport of shopping with my princess

I could not agree with you MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To me this is the same as what Manson did in California.

Do you mean Charles Manson? Who controlled the killing of human beings?

While this is bad (if guilty), don't see how it rises to the level of killing a person. And, obviously, the law doesn't agree with that either since the punishment is probably just money.

Is this what you meant to say? Or do you mean some other Manson?

Let me see if I have this straight -- it's okay to commit a felony as long as it doesn't affect you, but it's not okay for someone to have an affair, which is actually a very private matter. Granted, Mark Morse, et al. have not been tried and convicted, but if they are found guilty (and not ljust let off on a technicality), they have committed FELONIES, knowingly with intent. That's okay with you?

So, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, FDR,, Ike, JFK, Clinton, just to name a few public officials who have had known,, confirmed affairs, should be removed from office for betraying a public trust? What public trust? I may not like their choices and I certainly don't understand having sex with another when married, but it is a betrayal of a private trust with their wives and it truly isn't my business or yours or the general public's unless these sexual trysts truly affect the running of the city, state, country.

I honestly think your statements are a mix of apples and oranges and it saddens me that you can't see that Mark Morse's moral fibre is sorely lacking -- in the recent class action suit, the IRS mess, the Moffitt lies and this and a lot of small things as well.

amen!

Do the animals who are slaughtered for furs, leather, guitar strings, pickled pigs feet, etc etc.. get to shoot back too? I do not agree with killing for killing sake. Many people will tell you that meat is not essential, and is in fact not healthy to humans. I see your point but mine is who and where do we draw the line?
I completely agree with laws that say if you hunt, you must dress the meat for consumption. If you do not want it, make sure it gets to someone who needs it. Many hunters in this area dress and donate the meat to the needy and shelters. I wonder if they have a food distribution license. So many issues... so much need for more government.
OF course you can argue that the food chain needs the body too.
JJ

JJ -- Montana has places to drop off the carcasses to be dressed and given to local shelters all for a whoipping $20 fee. The problem, of course, is that if you're hunting out of season or without a license you don't dare drop off the carcass since you then face a hefty fine and possible conviction for that dead animal.

I'm not going to get into pros and cons of hunting. My father was a hunter. So was my brother. As a kid, I happily joined them. I quit hunting when I gutshot a deer and had to chase it down to finish the job. I quit eating meat for several years after that but ultimately developed a severe case of anemia and had a choice -- eat red meat or die. I chose the red meat (which I honestly love, anyway). Back to the point, my father and brother loved the challenge of the hunt but never hunted unless they knew they could use every part of the animal. In Kentucky, that meant giving the meat to those less fortunate to enjoy during the winter. The hides were tanned and turned into clothing for those same families. The fat was rendered to make candles and soap. Even the bones were carved into utensils. We never had a head on the wall except my father's when mom was mad at him or a skin on the floor. That would have been a waste and an obscenity in our household. However, trophy hunting is beyond obscene and downright inexcusable. I can think of no reason for it except ego and it is the ego of a person I personally don't ever want to know.

Red, I'm thinking that you need to write a book. Your life has taken so many interesting twists and turns. I find you and the way you express yourself fascinating. We're lucky to have you on this forum and as a neighbor. :super::clap2:

Back to the topic, I'm happy that we have the POA to keep an eye on the developer, he needs to be watched. The charges in Montana are against Mark Morse not Gary Morse.

The POA found this story? Didn't know that.

You're right, it shouldn't be called a sport unless both sides know they're playing. A better name would be 'Killing', hunting leads one to believe the animal is hiding. On many days I can look out my back window and see deer grazing, they aren't too hard to find.

The last time the POA kept an eye on something, they hired an attorney for over 6 Million Dollars for 12 months work and paid themselves $50,000 each.

IF they committed the crimes alleged,
 

I'm inclined toward some sympathy for the daughter. In large measure, we learn our values from our parents.

If we are fortunate, our parents teach us, emulate and expect of us high standards of ethics and personal integrity. If we eschew those values, shame on us. If they teach us that we are privileged and above the laws and ethical standards-- or that our "worth" is defined by our wealth-- shame on them.

Yes, she is responsible for her own actions and should be accountable for them. I do not suggest otherwise. I guess I just hope that she learns the right lessons from the charges, regardless of her involvement, if any.

I hope they all do.

The Class-Action Law Suit
 

Yes, and you, the other residents of The Villages, and I ended up as the beneficiaries of a class-action settlement in the amount of $40,000,000 that the Developer had cheated us out of. I would say we got a heck of a good deal. Too bad it took a lawsuit to get the Developer to do the right thing.

Once you have written a refund check to the Developer for your share (about $1,000), I will start to listen to your criticism of the plaintiffs (who devoted a tremendous amount of time and effort to the pursuing the matter), their attorneys, and the POA.

Courts
 

Let the Courts handle this mess. Whatever they do,is alright with me.

Russ nice to hear from you again. I not only left out the word MORE, in the first line but should have added kill for the love of killing in the second line. I just didn't figure killing living things for fun had degrees. Just my opinion.

Russ, perhaps a reading comprehension class would help; read my note, I never said the POA found this story.:sigh:

I would like a receipt for my share of the Lawyers fee, so I can get a tax deduction of about $300. If you live north of 466, the $6,000,000 fee comes out to about $300 for every homeowner.

The class-action settlement again
 

Bad news: I'm afraid that your math is no better than your than your understanding of the class-action settlement. Take a look at page 3 of the settlement agreement: http://www.thevillagesfl.us/classactionsettlement.htm

Plaintiff's attorneys' fees were paid by the Developer, in addition to the $40 million settlement. They cost you nothing. Thus, they did not cost every homeowner north of 466 $300. They cost each such homeowner: $0.

You, I, and everybody else in The Villages was being "had" by the Developer. While you, I, and everybody else did nothing to remedy the situation, the plaintiffs pushed the matter and got us $40 million. Most people in our situation would thank them. I have.

When I said your share of settlement was $1,000, I was postulating that all approximately 40,000 homes in The Villages benefited equally from the settlement. Since you want to assume that only homes north of 466 benefited (technically they were the only members of the class, but in reality we all use the facilities north of 466) and if you live north of 466, then you should write the Developer a refund check for $2,000, instead of only $1,000. As I said in my earlier post, if you don't want the class-action money from the Developer, give your share back to the Developer. (The family is apparently running up some big legal bills in Montana and could use your help.) Otherwise, stop carping about the plaintiffs and the POA.

Further bad news for you: Even with a receipt for $300, you don't get a tax deduction for the class-action plaintiffs' attorney fees that were paid by the Developer and not by you.

Avocado,

It sounds as you are very unhappy here as well as being a naysayer. You are probably a very nice person but you are coming across as a real naysayer. You might have a happier disposition and outlook on life if you enjoyed the many activities of The Villages instead of posting such negative postings.

By the way, this thread started off with a mis-statement. It was talking of Gary Morse felony investigation in Montana. It is not Gary in trouble but his son and family.

Now, Avocado, just enjoy life and the wonderful place you have here in The Villages.

I have seen enough on this thread so I am not going to read anymore postings on it. Any response to me, Avocado, would be a waste of electrons on your part. Bye-bye.

SO
 

But, the new cart paths are great and no cost to Villagers!!

Just for the record Avagado, I don't get that impression of you. You seem to be very knowledgeable about the POA's involvement in that lawsuit and was explaining how it benefitted all of us by using mathematical examples.

Tbugs,
What you talking about??? I think Avocado sounds like one smart person!!

Then why did you mention the POA in your response about this topic? Were they the first ones to publish it or something? Why else would you say "Back to the topic, I'm glad we have the POA to..." These are your words.

Duffysmom, this was your excerpted from your post...

"Back to the topic, I'm happy that we have the POA to keep an eye on the developer, he needs to be watched."

Since the title of the topic is Morse (albeit the wrong one named) and felony allegations, I think Russ might be forgiven in misunderstanding what you wrote.

Sorry Kate - must have posted the same time.

I'm not asking for forgiveness though. I really thought she meant the POA had some hand in the story. Why mention them otherwise. It was a question on my part as to what role the POA played in this. Just curious.

Tbugs - just because someone is unhappy with the Morse family does not mean he is unhappy as a Villager. And to mistype his name is just plain rude. His "name" is "Advogato".. He and I don't always agree - but have a civil discourse.

I have frequently stated that the Morse's built a better mousetrap and that innovation in a free market deserves the rewards it generates. I just have an issue with greed... not my house, not the beauty of TV and not with most of the maintenance...