Home Spec Mystery
 

Hello All You Villagers and Villagers to be,

I am well acquainted with The Villages including its high energy level and its wonderful residents. In fact, I would like to build a new home there wtihin the next few months. I even have a deposit on a lot.

The MYSTERY is that neither the real estate agent nor management
will supply a "spec. sheet" for any house, though I have asked multiple times over several months.

Yes, they will tell you it will have low e-windows and a heat pump, but will not tell me the window manufacturer nor the make and SEER rating of the heat pump. They will say it will be concrete block and have a concrete slab but will not say if the concrete block is steel reinforced, nor the PSI of the concrete slab. They will say the interrior of the house will be done in drywall but will not even say whether there is an insulation barrier between the concrete block and the drywall on the inside. I don't know why the "specs" are a secret.

I've owned a number of homes including in a gated community and the builder offered all the "specs" without even being asked. Moreover, they would gladly answer any clarifying questions about any part of the building process.

Is there any homeowner out there in The Villages or a potential buyer of a new home in The Villages that was able to access "spec" information
about their home or home to be or have any comments about this MYSTERY?

Getting Worried about THE MYSTERY
Thanks very much for your comments

I purchased a new home, do not know anything about the specs, do know that I am very happy with our home...gn

Probably the reason you can't get answers is that they are always looking for the best deals from their suppliers. Most all the AC units I have seen are Carrier, if that tells you anything. I have not seen any steel bars in the block walls, but I may have missed that. The walls go up so fast, you could miss it if you blink. They do put sheets of styrofoam insulation on the inside of the block walls and then put on the sheet rock. We've been in our house for just over 3 months so far and are very pleased with the quality. Anything you can do to your house to add storage space will come in very handy.

Normally, the slabs are 3,000- 3,500 lb, either 8x8 steel mesh reinforced, or fibercrete. Both have a vapor barrier, and the soil underneath is compacted to at least 92 or 93%, and poisoned for termites no more than 24 hours before the pour. The block walls have a concrete filled cell every 8 feet, with rebar tied to a dowel in the slab, and a minimum 12" hook into the poured beam at the top. The inside surface has furring strips every 16", with r-11 styrofoam between. This is mostly according to the SBCCI building code adopted in the early 90's by all the Florida counties. Hope this helps.

stjames,
I can understand your feelings. I designed and built my own home, and totally need to know everything. SEER rating on your heat pump is huge, I would need to know that and be able to decide what SEER I want and am willing to pay for. Same with windows....what energy rating, etc.
I am not saying anything negative. I'm sure that 95% of folks do not want to know or care....just build my house....but I could never be that way.
If I'm buying it and paying for it, I want to make some decisions. I see no problem with them saying, "Normal is 15 SEER. Add $400 for 19 SEER. Etc,etc...... Then you decide.

As the famous architect Ludwig Mies van der Roh said, "God is in the details".

Good luck on your new adventure!

Frank

Here's your windows. I replaced the windows on my house in South Florida 5 years ago. Same brand. I was happy to see these used at The Villages.


http://cws.cc/

It's interesting if you Google "spec home", you will get two different answers. One is what I thought it would be, a home built to a predetermined specification. But the other definition is a house built on a speculative basis, with no order on the books. I would want to see the specification on something I was paying $200K for, and I'm surprised to hear that the developer isn't providing that info. I'll send an email to my assigned sales person tomorrow and see how he answers the question.

collie - In my little world, the definition of a 'spec home' has always been the latter of what you stated: A house built on speculation, hoping to find a buyer at some point after construction begins.

Bill

Since the developer/builder does not allow choices on heat pumps or windows, you get what you get. After you move in you can make a decision to keep what was installed or replace it with something better. You can bet the material installed will not be top of the line but of reasonable quality since the developer does not want to deal with complaints later.

I understand that the developer needs to maintain his profit margin using the economies of volume buying the same models, etc, but I would think a buyer could have a bit more latitude....

But as said before, 95% of folks are not that picky. I am in that 5%.

The sad thing is, many things are just not feasible to upgrade later. One is not going to just throw away a houseful of windows and pay the labor and material cost to upgrade to better ones, or an A/C unit, etc.....

OTOH, I'm sure the homes are quite nice. At least everyone knows how the whole thing works before committing....

Frank

Did you have all those choices when you built at Plantation?

Dear Bogie,

Actually, no, as I bought a pre-existing 15 year old home there. I bought knowing the materials, etc in the house, were "as is". The Plantation just became "built-out", meaning that all lots were sold and building started or finished in the development just when we bought, so building a new house there was not an option.

Again, I do not mean to offend at all. I think The Villages is a wonderful place..very unique, and I understand why many would love it there and buy and build there.

I bought a 15 year old home knowing I would be doing upgrades......many of which I have already done. Being a 15 year old home I did not have a problem with upgrading.......I knew that in doing so I could get what I wanted and that most of those upgrades were justifiable if only because of age. Many things, like roofs, A/C units, etc are at 15 years close to their expected "end of useful life" and thus a justifiable expense.

I do not know when the developers of The Plantation were building how many choices the buyers were given. For me there it was a moot point. I'm guessing that the build quality of my 15 year old Plantation home was NOT as good of a quality as you have currently in The Villages. It sounds from at least what I read here most folks are very happy with your build quality.....they just wish they had a bit more of a choice in some things.

The other factor here is that I love remodeling, and do everything myself. I designed and built my own home here in NY, and will be selling it soon to become a full time Floridian. For me, I'd rather buy a home that has not been upgraded, so I can do the work myself. Only then will I know it is done to my standards, my way, etc. I realize I'm in the minority.

Again, there seems to be a lot of happy folks there, so they must be doing something right.

Enjoy the weekend.....we still have some snow up here. I can't wait to return down there....we'll be there by this Thursday.

Respectfully, Frank

We have built several homes in our lifetime. The last, 20 years ago was a custom home. I think I have some pictures on here of both of them in albums on here.

However, I am pleased with the Camellia we bought in TV and the Seabrook which I hope will be the next home there.

It is not the process that any of us are used too, but it is not a bad process or a bad home at all. The cost to heat and cool is much lower than our custom home built 20 years ago, comparitively.

They KNOW better what they are doing than any builder I have ever dealt with.

[QUOTE=faithfulfrank;343678]I understand that the developer needs to maintain his profit margin using the economies of volume buying the same models, etc, but I would think a buyer could have a bit more latitude....

But as said before, 95% of folks are not that picky. I am in that 5%.

The sad thing is, many things are just not feasible to upgrade later. One is not going to just throw away a houseful of windows and pay the labor and material cost to upgrade to better ones, or an A/C unit, etc.....



As a supplier of building materials to contractors , I do understand your point. My only question is why do you need this before the building process?

The builder can and will change vendors over time. By the time you actually begin construction on your home, the brand he told you in the beginning may have changed due to a number of reasons. If this happens he then has broken a verbal contract with you. As long as he meets the codes and the quality of products stated in your contract there should be no issue.

Obviously after the products have arrived you can see what they are and research them yourself. If they do not meet what is stated in your contract, then you can dispute that with the builder.

The reason I point this out is that people can a do want to micromanage their home building and then slow down the process causing the builder time and money. THEN they come back and want to know why their home is taking so long to build.

So no custom homes in the villages
 

As I understand it from you all. All homes in the villages are track homes little or no customization and the builder does not build custom homes were you can choose the appliances, funace, air, cabinets, etc. Not even the primier. Do I have this correct?

So if you want real custom you need to buy a preowned older home were the furnace air etc are ready to be replaced and get permission to alter as you like or buy in the historic (previous mobile home area of double wides) and tear down the trailer and build a custom. Have I got this right?

I believe the answer to both questions is no. Definition of a track (actually tract) home is " area in which inexpensive and uniform houses are built", if you think this is what TV is, you haven't been here...gn

We built a designer model and had the following choices.

Flooring - carpet, wood, tile, vinyl. There were 3 wood choices, at least 12 tile choices.

Base molding - 2 sizes

Appliances - choose from several finishes and levels (basic GE vs GE Profile)

Lighting and plumbing fixtures - a dozen or more options

Interior and exterior paint - at least a dozen or more choices

Cabinets - more than a dozen to pick from

Countertops - laminate, solid surface & granite

Front door & garage door - at least a dozen or more to choose from

Glad you cleared that up for me. Had no idea what a track house was!

TV is not the place if you want to choose a lot, choose a builder etc. You may be able to do this with a teardown, but i can't imagine that could be cost effective.

You ask two similar questions asking if you have this right/correct based upon your understanding from "all of you". Is this also based upon, I assume, your two year membership on talk of the villages and your 305 post..
Regarding your two questions my answer to both is, NO you do not have it correct or right.
We are in the process of building a new home and we got quite a laugh with your line " track homes little or NO customizaton etc. etc. etc." good one.
good luck trudy

actually in the current environment, you can pick your lot and a whole miriad (sp?) of options, colors of interior and exterior, counters, floors and much more, or you can do what we did and buy one already built which has everything we could have ever thought of and then some, still lovin it after 6 years....gn

NOT a tract home, by any stretch of imagination.

All of the above mentioned choices are given and some "kicks" I call them, extensions in areas of your home are allowed. Not everywhere but take them if you can, because it is relatively inexpensive in building to get more space.

What you can no longer do here is customize with colored carpet and unusual tile backsplashes or other unusual tile installations. (For instance in our home in Ohio, we have a large tile mural on the shower wall)

The reason, I am guessing, is that it is THEIR home until you close and YOUR creative choices may not be too marketable if you break the contract.

I am picky too, but I am very satisfied.

House Specifications
 

This may not help before you buy, but with the information perhaps you can get some answers from your salesman. If not get another salesman.

When you close you get a multi-page (yellow) spec sheet that gives almost everything you want to know. Paint color, part number for plumbing fixtures, HVAC specs, etc. You can also obtain from the builder, some of them leave them at the completed house, some you have to ask for. The drawing package, (9 pages I think), contains the plans from which the home is built. In my estimation it is priceless. includes, site layout, plumbing, electrical, structural, . . . . .

Hope this helps!!

Hello faithfulfrank,
Thanks for your comments on the "mystery specs" of The Villages.
The Villages will not give me in writing what specs. they will build the house to,
even though I have a deposit on a lot.
Of course one can know the model and make of the appliances, cabinents, flooring
etc. But they won't say if the concrete block is steel reinforced, the psi of the concrete slab, the R rating of the walls and ceiling etc. I know they have to build to Fl. State Code but some of the Fl. code is on the low side of energy efficiency.
It sounds like you are well acquainted with The Villages. I have spent several weeks there recently over two two trips. I have also visited the Plantation several times.
The Plantation is quite attractive, large enough to generate energy and a good selection of activities. The homes are priced considerably lower than The Villages, they own their own facilities and the total amenity fee is $85/p/month, with about a 2 million reserve. There are no CDDs, Bonds or other costs except about &400 p/year for fire service. The great majority of lots are bigger and offer more privacy. Golf is extra, but very reasonable.
However, The Villages seems to be even more energetic with more clubs and of course, their Town Centers are great. Golf in the Executive Courses is free, at least for now. Unfortunately, the amenities will be owned by the Morse corporation until 2040, at which time the Morse corporation will decide to sell them or keep them. (That info. is in the Covenents and Restrictions that all buyers must sign before purchasing a home in
The Villages) But one does pay premiums to live in The Villages and obviously huge numbers think it is well worth it.

What were the main reasons that you chose The Plantation over The Villages?

Glad to hear you are skilled enough to do most of your house upgrades.
And it sounds like Fl. will be at least your winter home.

Take Care and Keep on Smiling
stjames

[

Dear StJames,
You are correct in your post above. It sounds like you've done some good research.

In the many posts after it seems like from what others have said they do give you more info then first implied. Your questions about building specifics seem reasonable.....I would think they would be able to answer them. Could the solution be just to visit some other homes in The Villages that are in various stages of construction and see yourself? Could you perhaps speak to the workers actually doing a house and see for yourself? I did not remember if you were long distance or not, but perhaps a week long visit to get all of these answered would be worth it.

Perhaps making a list of all of your questions, posting them here might help. Your future neighbors may know the answers to your questions just by observing other homes being built.

I remember looking at homes in another 55+ community. The sales Rep took us through a model home. A few houses down, they were in the middle of another build. I told the sales rep, "Enough of the model...I need to see THAT one, as it will tell me much more" She thought I was weird. :D:thumbup:

I really do not know much at all about The Villages. I've only visited the squares. I've never been to a Villages home or any of its neighborhoods. I do know building construction, and am a licensed Home Inspector in the state of Florida.

So, you may ask, (as I'm sure others might also), "Why is this guy on The Villages forum?" Basically, I bought my Florida home 5 years ago, and miss it terribly every day I am not there. I've been stuck up in NY with it's high taxes, cold winters, etc. This forum is how I get my "Florida fix". Even as an "outsider" folks here have been kind to me, and I appreciate that. This year should be the year we sell up north and move here for good.

As to your question about picking The Plantation over The Villages....I work with a guy who bought in The Plantation. We visited, and I ended up buying the house across the street from him. It is the only spontaneous thing I've ever done in my life. When I bought I never even heard of The Villages.

I tell folks there are many nice 55+ communities. Hardly a bad one in the bunch. Like a rack of shoes, they all look good, but one will just "fit right". Check them out. The Villages is a one of a kind place that is doing something right, as almost 100k folks have found.

If you are long distance, perhaps you might want to hire someone who can be your eyes and ears, take daily pictures, etc.

Enjoy the build!

Respectfully, Frank

I had the same reservations about the quality of homes here when we were considering buying a home more than three years ago. I was really quite offensive to a lot of veteran posters with my sceptical remarks about the place, the homes, the developer, (YES, ME) and just about everything. I could NOT understand why people really got on me and bashed my ears on this forum when I thought I was just asking realistic questions. I thought this whole danged place was just a little too good to be true.

Now I find myself just as defensive as the posters who were annoyed at me.

The homes here won't have a lot of the things that many of us left up north.
There will be no pretty stair cases, no basements, no soaring ceilings, not much architectural interest or diversity even in the expensive Premiers.

You can get more house for your money outside of The Villages and there are REAL bargains everywhere in Florida now, just as there are almost everywhere.

That said, I think that the homes are fine, and I really have not seen any shoddy building practices. They really have the process perfected.The heating and cooling bills are quite good I think, and I have no complaints about the new house we bought three years ago.

It isn't the HOUSE, although they are fine, it is this wonderful community and what it has to offer that makes the Villages so attractive. You mentioned that in 2040 things are up for change. Believe me, in 2040, I doubt I will be playing pickleball.:1rotfl:

We are so glad we bought our first house here three years ago. Now we are attempting to sell our home in Ohio, and our home in Hadley and buy a little bigger home and live here year 'round. We have built several homes in our lifetime, so we are certainly not novices at the practice. Just my two cents.

It is a matter of supply and demand. If the demand is high you can do what you want to do and your products sell. To offer options becomes more costly to administer and it becomes a business decision. I am sure the developer is aware that his business can not please 100 percent of people's request but as long as his development is selling so well there is no pressure to change. It becomes a take it or leave it with the options I offer. It is not a truly custom choice but a choice with many options that the developer offers. This is very similar to buying a million dollar Toll home in the northeast. The specs are basic standards that are met no more no less. I was told by a developer that informant people who need to know them are not worth selling to because they cause more problems than they are worth. These are the customers you want to drive to your competition to drive their costs up. This is just one opinion, neither right or wrong.

A follow-on to scroll's post: In our somewhat limited time (proportional to those of you who have been in/around TV for many many years) of being involved in what TV is all about, we've noticed the numerous changes that have been made over time to virtually ALL of the homes the developer puts up. And it seems like they're very interested in hearing your feedback - we get asked by the sales folks for our feedback when we wander through some of the open houses, though that could also be perceived as just a "conversation starter" on the part of the sales person. The floor plans, options, etc. seem to be constantly evolving - - - for the better. Even with our 4 year old Patio Villa, we see a few changes now being incorporated into the newer versions that are nice.

Granted, TV's not cranking out 100% custom homes. But I do believe they're listening to what the market is looking for.

Bill

Bsed on our experience of living in The Villages for 5 yeras
there are a numbers of unanswered quetsions. The Reason being they do not have to answer them. Bets of Luck.

Could you tell us more of what you are thinking?

yeah, some things are a mystery. I think TV does so much business, they just often have a *take it or leave it* attitude and that's too bad.

I believe once you buy a house, the warranty dept. will give you the subcontractors, etc and you can find all that out, but it's too late for your needs, I understand.

One thing that must be understood is that TV is not, by any stretch of the imagination, building custom homes.

Hi St. James,

I think this is a classic case of "it is what it is". Even if you knew the engineering specs, you would not be able to change them.

I also suspect that they cannot tell you now some of the things you are asking about-- such as the window and heat pump efficiency ratings of the ones that will be in your house-- because they honestly don't know yet. It depends on what bids they get from what suppliers when they are ready to buy these supplies to build your house, which depends on when you decide to build (within the year or however long you have.)

I think you can rest assured that anything they use will meet building code. If they tell you something is energy efficient, it will meet at least minimum standards for that designation. It will not be top of the line. But whatever it is, it will be. You will not be able to customize any of things about which you asked.

I so hope you will not loose sleep over this. Even if there are not steel reinforcements and it doesn't carry the loads you would have chosen, your house isn't going to fall down unless there's a hurricane or tornado or fire or other such extreme event-- and then it might have fall down even built to your specs.

I would feel sad for you if you are unhappy with your decision to purchase here and it's too late to change your mind. There's too many good things to look forward to. So please, try to accept that it is what it is. Recharge your energy and enthusiasm for the excellent lifestyle and community you have chosen.

Be excited. Be very excited.

We bought in TV for the lifestyle. The housing became a secondary focus for us. Can you get more house for the money elsewhere? Absolutely - we found that to be the case with a number of other 55+ communities around FL. But can you even come close to duplicating the lifestyle - all the amenities, the cleanliness, the activities, the golf, the Squares, the vast infrastructure (stores, restaurants, services), and so on....all just a golf cart ride away? In my opinion, no place else even comes close.

Bill :)

:BigApplause:

Sorry if I used the wrong term
 

I didn’t know that a tract home was defined as an inexpensive one, or even negative. I understood it to mean a development with like models. I wasn't trying to cast aspersions on any people’s decisions or on the value of the houses there. I realize that the villages has many models but I was under the impression that they came as is with only some having the option of additional square feet or a golf cart garage but that the models were built as planned as doing each custom for the buyer would be much more expensive and not an option provided by the builder. I was asking if I had got the correct impression from reading this forum.
I didn’t mean to get anyone upset. I have only been to the villages once as I now live on the west coast, so I have to rely on all the great people on this forum for my info as I live vicariously though you all at least for now.