How NOT to look stupid if you're a "birther"
 

So Arizona has veoted the so-called "birther bill" which would require any presidential candidate to supply his or her birth certificate.

You know, it sounded a bit pointless until I found out that there was an interesting provision in the bill.

If you could not produce a birth certificate, you would be allowed to use BAPTISMAL or CIRCUMCISION certificates!

What idiot wrote THAT?

Here's a clue as to how STUPID that is. I was born in 1962. If I were to run for office "birthers" would have a field day with me because my mother illegally adopted me (no records) and changed my name several times (no records). She was afraid members of my birth family would find me and take me back. She convinced a priest in New York to give her - and I still have - BLANK, NOTARIZED BAPTISMAL CERTIFICATES! Any name or birth date could be filled in.

Now, how compundingly stupid is the Arizona bill? The State Department will NO LONGER accept baptismal certificates - I know because I tried (the rules changed after 9/11). I had to do a LOT of digging to find a link between my 'birth' identity and the name I'd lived under since I was about 5. On top of that, in most places, my adoptive mother misreported my birthdate. Fortunately, she left my birth name as an 'alias' with my proper birthdate with Social Security (when she applied for my card in 1975). With that I was able to do a legal name change to the name I'd lived under for over 40 years.

So some legislators in Arizona, complaining about border problems, proposed a bill to make it easier to get on the presidential ballot than to get a passport.

WOW!

That almost sounds like you would need to hire a team of lawyers, and pay millions of dollars so you wouldn't have to provide anything publicly should you manage to come out of the woodwork and run for president of the United States someday.

Would you be surprised at what is needed to become a member of our military. Been there, so I know, and it's more than what has been required of a couple of non military Democrat "Commander in Chief" who couldn't pass the most basic military security clearance.

I would like a good clear explanation from our resident birthers as to what the difference is between a "birth certificate" and a "certificate of live birth".

Thank you in advance.

Birther bill vetoed in Arizona
 

Can you just imagine the cheers from the right wing fringe groups if Jan Brewer had signed the birther bill in Arizona?

She vetoed it saying it was "a bridge too far". Even though she had to lift the phrase from author Cornelius Ryan, it is a good phrase.

We have not heard anything on this from the right wing conspiracy theory groups. Guess they are too busy trying to get Brewer recalled from office now that their Plan A failed.

How Not To Look stupid..
 

tbug, the difference between a birth certificatre and a certificate of live birth is evidenced in Obama, a Manchurian Candidate ascending to the highest position in the free world. People can laugh all they want but like my friends from Missouri say "show me" and Obama has yet to do that.... I am sorry but I like to know alot about the people who have a great control over my life and when it comes to him it appears he has no real traceable history. I do not like him because every time he opens his mouth the DJIA goes down 150 points or more. So Obama specifically is not good for my pocket book and gnerally for America. You can bet when the 2012 elections roll around I will be e-mailing as many politicians as I can to force every presidential candidate to publish their birth certificates on the internet. If this makes me look stupid then be it but I am a stronger believer in the premise that when we fail its because we forgot the basics and in Obama's case I believe that is what happened and many people on both sides are red faced. By the way everytime this issue heats up Obama gets a friend or family member face time so they can say B I know Barack was born in......but they never support it with proof. So I tell you know I shot an 18 the other day....trust me.
Have a good day neighbor and I truly enjoy the dialogue.

Rubicon,

You did not give any explanation of the differences (if any) between a "birth certificate" and "certificate of live birth". If you do not know, just admit it. I believe they must be the same thing. As your Missouri friends say, "show me" what the difference really is between them.

I can see you do like President Obama at all. That certainly is your right. I thought G. W. Bush was a buffoon. That is my right.

Regarding your golf score, an 18 is excellent. I am curious, though, after the 18, what did you get on the second hole?

I'm afraid you grossly overestimate your influence.

As usual your arguments are well reasoned and articulate. I fully agree that the bill as written was foolish, at best, and arguably outright stupid and pandering. Governor Brewer was right to veto it and I applaud her for doing so.

The underlying need is our refusal to make it impossible, or at least extremely difficult, for illegals to obtain a passport, driver's license or employment. Until we deal with this issue, every other issue will continue to smolder and then burst into flames in matters such as this bill.

BlueHeron: I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from. Non-resident aliens can get in the military, but certainly CANNOT become President.

The point I was making was that, in an effort to eliminate future controversies over Presidential eligibility, the bill, as written, would have made it possible to be on the ballot for President while being ineligible for a U.S. Passport (i.e. baptismal or circumcision records being accepted).

djp
 

All I was referring to in the military issue, was that any person in the military with the background of either Bill Clinton or Barack Hussien Obama would not qualify for the most basic security clearance, yet both made it to "Commander in Chief" of our entire armed forces. Quite ironic.

Incorrect. I qualified for a secret clearance more than once before I finally got my paperwork straightened out. Before that, I was bonded repeatedly, having to pass background checks (including fingerprinting for the FBI) for those when I worked in the mutual fund industry.

And you had how many communist associations in your background?

I, for one, am glad it got vetoed.

I do find it strange that Obama has spent so much time and effort to hide not only his birth certificate, but virtually every school record as well. But the time for challenging that was in 2008, and it wasn't successful for whatever reason one wishes to believe.

The fact is this whole controversy can easily be used by the Dems to avoid the major issues of the day (increasing debt and deficits, weakening economy in virtually all segments) for which they can no longer "blame Bush" (he's been out of office for two years, during which they could pass anything they wanted -- and often did, though strangely never a budget -- so now they must take ownership of the fruits of their labor).

Blue Herron,

Your statement about Clinton nor Obama would not make it past a basic military security clearance does raise the same question about George W. Bush. During his 2000 presidential campaign there were persistent questions about a history of cocaine use. Eventually Bush denied using cocaine since 1992, then quickly extended the cocaine-free period back to 1974 (age 28). Hopefully, G.W. Bush did not use cocaine when he was in the Texas Air Guard but he did refuse to go back any earlier in coke use before age 28. Hmmm?

It's Bush's Fault.
 

Obama is awesome. :1rotfl:

Awesome may a bit of over-kill, but he's damn good! See, I knew we all could find common ground. You're pretty awesome yourself. :1rotfl:

Xavier

From one Navy Vet to (I guess) another.
 

Please provide just one example of "damn good". Now if you mean as a teleprompter puppet, then we agree. Also, if you mean, when not on teleprompter, unable to stay out of factual trouble, then we agree.

Thanks for the insight.

And utilizing a teleprompter signifies what? Totally inconsequential...grasping at straws.

What insight?

That "talking point," if you can even call it that, expired long, long ago. None of the real GOP/Conservative leadership ever picked up on that criticism. Only those short on substance ever used it because they had nothing else to say. It seems to be difficult for some to accept that Our (yours and mine) President uses the brain in his head for other purposes other than just to keep things from rattling around.

Now lay back on the couch and tell me what is really bothering you and we'll see if we work on your problem. I think I can help.

Xavier

How Not To Look
 

I must admit that I need to improve my writing skills. I did not intend to imply influence when I made mention of e-mailing every candidate for their birth certificate for the 2012 campaign only that I would because he would satisify an itch that need to be scratched. I also thought that I explained the difference between a birth certificate and certificate of live birth by explaining the latter apparently was close enough for government work (no disprespect intended) to get Obama pas the veting stage. I do understand that the Dems could use this issue as a welcomed distraction to their dismissal handling of the economy. I also thought I explained that my reference to an 18 was my total golf score; hyperbole of course to the same type claims made by His Majesty Obama. And yes I am capable of scoring an 18 on one hole but then I am hell on the dance floor. What drives me conncerning this question is why the Obama team is spending so much time and money to hide his background. I spent my entire career testing the veracity of people and Team Obama fits a perfect profile for someone who is desperately trying to hide a secret. By the way Obama, like Bush also did coke . Having never used any illegal drugs my respect for both is even diminished more so but I suspect we may never find a future candidate who hasn't used some illegal drug?????? Finally it is not Obama I dislike it is his socialist agenda

Birth Certificate vs Certificate of Live Birth
 

When I was in the military my daughter was born in a Military Hospital in Korea. Her birth certificae was issued by the American Embassy in Souel, Korea. When we returned to the states, I had to take the Embassy issued birth certificate to Idaho to get her a Certificate of Live Birth. The only thing that got the birth certifcate was the Embassy paperwork. She can not get a passport with the Idaho birth certificate, she has to the use the Embassy issued birth certificate. Her Idaho birth certificate is good for registering to vote, getting a dirvers license but not for a passport, It is a certificate of live birth.

Now do you understand the difference.

As I see it, there is no difference at all. I guess we will all have to wait for Donald Trump's team of investigators to tell us the truth. Maybe the truth is that Trump wears a phony looking hairpiece. You do not need a team of investigators for that, though.

My ex-wife was also born on a military base (Clark AFB in the Phillipines). The State Department produces the only paperwork that the State Department would accept for a passport.

How Not to look stupid if you're a birther
 

In order to get a drivers license and register to vote i needed a birth certificate. I also needed one along with my DD214 to get my social security. Las year my wife and i made application for our passports I needed all of the preceding to get a passport. What I don't know is what a presidential candidte has to produce to determine if he/she is a naturalized citizen???? I am not abirther in that I am not focused on where Obama was born but rather in why he is assuming his usual pose as the "artful dodger?' Perhaps Karl rove is correct and Obama is drawing Republicans into this fight because he knows he can't lose. However it sure takes away from his boast of being a uniter. A true leader would understnad that its a lose lose situation and put an end to it. so for that reason I pray Trump finds the answer whatever it is so we can focus on the economy

If we don't start getting the spending under control and focus on the economy, it will not matter if Obama is a Natural Born Citizen or not. The country will be a 3d world piece of junk and if you think things are bad now, just wait until that happens. Are you prepared for the worse or are you going to hope that the Government will take care of you?

Me, I am prepared for the worst and hope for the best.

You obviously have no clue
 

about what a socialist is.

Rubicon,

I am curious. What type of job did you have that you spent your entire career testing the veracity of people?

Also, specifically, what is the "socialist agenda" you dislike so much about the Democrats and President Obama? Are you against social programs such as the Federal school lunch and breakfast programs, veterans benefits and hospitalization. Social Security, Medicare, or a Federal living wage program?

I played Yankee Clipper yesterday and it felt as though I had an 18 on a few of those holes. Tough course from the black tees.

I'll tell you one thing. A baptismal certificate won't even get you a drivers license in Tennessee.

I came from California with a valid California license and i still had to show my birth certificate... the real one, not a copy.

This pretty much describes Obama and the Democrats.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

Lassen, the Tennessee Department of Safety does NOT require an original birth certificate for a driver's license. You can present a certified copy with a raised seal that is issued by your home state. http://www.tennessee.gov/safety/driv....htm#secondary

Accuracy counts, spelling does not.

rofl

Birth Certificates
 

The media has us obsessed with nonsense.

The Republican party has all of the attorneys that big business can supply. If there was some legitimacy to the claims made by FOX News and others, don't you all think that there would have been court challenges right from the beginning.

Obama is President. He is a better President than his predecessor, and he is better than McCain would have been.

Don't hold your breath
 

waiting for an intelligent answer.

There's nothing for Trump's "people" to find - no matter what Trump says.

I mean, come on. How many 'people' do you need to physically go to Hawaii to show up in Honolulu to 'investigate' a birth certificate?

I can hear the phone call from 'the investigators' now:

"Uh.. Yeah. Donald.. We're going to need a couple more weeks here.. Yeah.. We're finding all kinds of stuff. No, we can't tell you all about it now - we'll tell you when we get back".

Someone's just looking for a vacation in Hawaii - if Donald actually paid ANYone to go out there.

How many weeks has this been going on?

I could really care less about his birth certificate. I'm more concerned with he and the democrats driving us off a financial cliff, which they pretty much already have.

I always laugh when I hear him say the government needs to live within their means when he's the one who tripled our debt in two years and fights tooth and nail not to cut any money from the budget.

When someone is knowingly and willingly trying to destroy what made America great I'm less concerned where they are born and more concerned with removing them from office.

The hypocrisy from the left is stunning. i can't believe they aren't having a cow over this illegal war he's gotten us into in Libya. The left screamed bloody murder with GW's 400b billion deficit. Obama sends it to trillions and not a peep from the left.

And the best they can do is attack Sarah Palin. How lame is that...

Who gives a rats <blank> about his birth certificate. Let's concentrate on stoping the marxist man child from doing any more damage to the country.

The country is being
 

destroyed. That's why the DJIA is at 12,505. If we were back to tax rates in effect under Clinton, we'd be well on our way to fiscal soundness. Of course, the Republicans would rather gut Medicare than to tax millionaires.

Not even close to being true.

You say. Did that come out of your brain or do you really have anything to back it up. The best economic years were under Clinton with the help of the GOP. Of course, they truly cared about their country back then and were willing to work together. You know, come to think of it I could say pretty much the same for the Democrats as well.

Xavier

Why is it that liberals always want to solve their reckless and wasteful spending by confiscating other peoples money? The government can't live within a two trillion dollar income?

IT'S NOT THEIR OR YOUR MONEY TO TAKE AS YOU SEE FIT.

The same goes for you all. Want to contribute more? Well cut a check with your own money.

Such great analysis
 

on your part. BTW, none other than Alan Greenspan recommended this week that course of action. I'm sure you're more qualified than he to judge how to deal with our economy, debt, etc.

This is too freaking funny!
 

The Democrats won't even go back to 2008 spending levels without screaming.

http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/...ng-2008-levels

How do you even tie your shoes in the morning?