[retiredguy123]

Did anyone see the video of Sam Burns hitting the ball into the water on the 16th hole at the Zurich Classic? His partner, Billy Horschel, continued to insist that the ball landed outside of the penalty area, thereby allowing them to drop the ball close to the green instead of going back to the tee. No one else, including the rules official, the announcers, or other players spoke up to either agree or dispute what Horschel said. Sam Burns, who made the shot, didn't say anything. But, what I saw was a ball that clearly landed inside the penalty area. Is this a situation where the player is always right, and the rules officials are afraid to make a controversial ruling?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Good question.
I think this is where the honor part of the game comes in.
Onus is on the player.

[ureout]

I watched the replay, it definitely bounced backward into the water but I couldn't tell exactly where it hit on dry land... from the angle of the replay I couldn't see the red line???

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by ureout

I watched the replay, it definitely bounced backward into the water but I couldn't tell exactly where it hit on dry land... from the angle of the replay I couldn't see the red line???

Play it where it lies. Get out the hip waders, Joe.
☺

[Topspinmo]

I thought you could drop ball where it crossed the line into the penalty area. This came up several years ago with tiger when he hit out of bounds where he dropped the ball. Either way it should 1 stoke for moving ball and 1 stroke for placing it. Or at least that now I understood rules. Way I understand rules you can only place ball on green after marking it. All other placements are strokes penalty, even if you address ball and it moves that’s stroke. But, been few decades since I played tournaments.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

I thought you could drop ball where it crossed the line into the penalty area. This came up several years ago with tiger when he hit out of bounds where he dropped the ball. Either way it should 1 stoke for moving ball and 1 stroke for placing it. Or at least that now I understood rules. Way I understand rules you can only place ball on green after marking it. All other placements are strokes penalty, even if you address ball and it moves that’s stroke. But, been few decades since I played tournaments.

It was only a one stroke penalty. But, the issue was that, if the ball landed inside the penalty area, and didn't cross the non-penalty area, it would have to be played from tee. But, if the ball landed in the non-penalty area, and then bounced into the water, it could be placed where it entered the penalty area, which was a few feet from the green.

My issue was that a player should call the ruling on himself, or ask the rules official to make the ruling. In this case, Sam Burns was the player who hit the ball into the water and he should have made the initial call, subject to being overruled by the official. But, his partner, Billy Horschel, became very vocal and strongly argued that the ball definitely landed outside the penalty area. The rules official was called, and Sam Burns and the two other players in the group just stood around and apparently expressed no opinion at all. They all allowed Billy Horschel to decide the ruling. Not a big deal, but I don't think it was handled correctly. I'm glad they didn't win the tournament.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

It was only a one stroke penalty. But, the issue was that, if the ball landed inside the penalty area, and didn't cross the non-penalty area, it would have to be played from tee. But, if the ball landed in the non-penalty area, and then bounced into the water, it could be placed where it entered the penalty area, which was a few feet from the green.

My issue was that a player should call the ruling on himself, or ask the rules official to make the ruling. In this case, Sam Burns was the player who hit the ball into the water and he should have made the initial call, subject to being overruled by the official. But, his partner, Billy Horschel, became very vocal and strongly argued that the ball definitely landed outside the penalty area. The rules official was called, and Sam Burns and the two other players in the group just stood around and apparently expressed no opinion at all. They all allowed Billy Horschel to decide the ruling. Not a big deal, but I don't think it was handled correctly. I'm glad they didn't win the tournament.

Agree, but IMO it is big deal especially it they beat team by one stroke when money involved.

[Hape2Bhr]

Looked to me that the ball landed in the hazard...oops penalty area, and bounced into the water. I could see the red line on my TV. I think he may have been able to take a drop further back, but not necessarily go back to the tee.

[GpaVader]

I think people are getting confused. If the ball goes OB, then you have to go back to where you hit the ball from and rehit with a penalty. With the situation here, it was a lateral hazard, which is indicated by the red line and stakes. If you hit the ball into that, you have the option of hitting out of the area with no penalty, or taking a drop from the point where you crossed into the hazard no nearer the hole. The only other people that can contest this, if they have no actual witness to where it went to the hazard, its usually up to the opponent to dispute what happened or where.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by GpaVader

I think people are getting confused. If the ball goes OB, then you have to go back to where you hit the ball from and rehit with a penalty. With the situation here, it was a lateral hazard, which is indicated by the red line and stakes. If you hit the ball into that, you have the option of hitting out of the area with no penalty, or taking a drop from the point where you crossed into the hazard no nearer the hole. The only other people that can contest this, if they have no actual witness to where it went to the hazard, its usually up to the opponent to dispute what happened or where.

Correct, but it appeared that the ball never actually crossed the hazard line, except back at the tee area, about 300 yards away. So, by determining that the ball landed outside of the penalty area, they were able to drop it a few feet from the green. A huge advantage.

But, the point is that golf is a game of rules and honor. Sam Burns was the guy who hit the ball into the water, and he is the one who should have either determined where the drop should be made, or ask a rules official to do it. Billy Horschel should not have interfered in that decision. Golfers can be held accountable for the decisions they make regarding the rules, and they can be penalized or even disciplined. And, the officials are there to enforce the rules. In this case, I think the rules official did not do his job, and Sam Burns wimped out. My opinion.

[thevillages2013]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Correct, but it appeared that the ball never actually crossed the hazard line, except back at the tee area, about 300 yards away. So, by determining that the ball landed outside of the penalty area, they were able to drop it a few feet from the green. A huge advantage.

But, the point is that golf is a game of rules and honor. Sam Burns was the guy who hit the ball into the water, and he is the one who should have either determined where the drop should be made, or ask a rules official to do it. Billy Horschel should not have interfered in that decision. Golfers can be held accountable for the decisions they make regarding the rules, and they can be penalized or even disciplined. And, the officials are there to enforce the rules. In this case, I think the rules official did not do his job, and Sam Burns wimped out. My opinion.

In most cases in a golf tournament you are playing with one or two opponents. With this format you are playing with a partner. Maybe they should institute video review for the partners format

[CartColor]

Where's a blimp when you need one?

[DaleDivine]

Originally Posted by GpaVader

I think people are getting confused. If the ball goes OB, then you have to go back to where you hit the ball from and rehit with a penalty. With the situation here, it was a lateral hazard, which is indicated by the red line and stakes. If you hit the ball into that, you have the option of hitting out of the area with no penalty, or taking a drop from the point where you crossed into the hazard no nearer the hole. The only other people that can contest this, if they have no actual witness to where it went to the hazard, its usually up to the opponent to dispute what happened or where.

This would be the correct ruling.

[Paul1934]

All players have a responsibility to the field, to insure fair play by all players. Some, based on a few of the televised exchanges with officials, need to go back to Q School for a refresher on the rules.

[jabacon6669]

Going back to the tee is an option. However in this case you also have the option of going to where the ball last crossed the hazard line. Which would hav been back on the other side of the water, or on the side where he did drop it, if that was determined to have been where it last crossed. I believe any one in the foursome can make the call.

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Correct, but it appeared that the ball never actually crossed the hazard line, except back at the tee area, about 300 yards away. So, by determining that the ball landed outside of the penalty area, they were able to drop it a few feet from the green. A huge advantage.

But, the point is that golf is a game of rules and honor. Sam Burns was the guy who hit the ball into the water, and he is the one who should have either determined where the drop should be made, or ask a rules official to do it. Billy Horschel should not have interfered in that decision. Golfers can be held accountable for the decisions they make regarding the rules, and they can be penalized or even disciplined. And, the officials are there to enforce the rules. In this case, I think the rules official did not do his job, and Sam Burns wimped out. My opinion.