[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

The International is a 45 Hole Facility in Bolton, MA ... not even close to Boston. I think they're saying "Boston", to tweek Jay Monahan the PGA Tour Commissioner, who's from Boston (actually, Winchester, but he played out of Belmont CC).

I used to manage The International and it was recently sold to Escalante Golf (who also own Black Diamond, which would be a way better site). One the Professionals at The International was very close to Greg Norman, so I suspect that's part of the reason they were able to target IGC.

I don't see it happening, for a myriad of reasons, not the least of which, Bolton is a very wealthy community, with a new contingent of the "woke". They'll go bonkers, when the Arabs show up in their robes! I can't wait for the fallout.

I thought that Jay Monahan was a member at Brae Burn.

The International was originally built to hold a tour event. It was built by a guy named Suprenant and was originally called Runaway Brook. Cables were buried in the ground in order to be able to hook up television cameras. Almost every tee has a drinking fountain. This was a big deal back in the 60s. It was way ahead of it's time.

It is the longest or second longest course int he US. (There are two courses that keep vying for the title by adding a few yards here and there.) Unfortunately, it's length should prove no problem to today's top professional golfers. It's really what they should be playing.

It's been a while since I played there but if I recall the original course is somewhere around 8,400 yards. It was supposed to be a par 77 but I understand that that has now been reduced to 72. I've played several tournaments there and played it from the tips just once in order to say that I did it. I think I shot around 85 or so. Many of the holes were par fives so they were no problem but the par threes were 240 plus yards. In the 70s and 80s those were almost impossible. Some holes had mandatory carries over water that I just couldn't reach.

Another interesting note is that the fifth green is the largest single green in the world. It's over 100 yards from front to back and three levels.

A former head professional there, Bill Eznicki, had several of us go out to that green and bet that we couldn't putt the ball off the back of the green. I couldn't come close. I think that a pro name Paul Barkhouse did it that day.

I would love to see a PGA tour event there. The problem is it's location. As Brian says, it is nowhere near Boston. It is out in the middle of nowhere. The PGA Tour has stopped going to places like that because of the lack of good hotels and restaurants. Every venue these days is near a big city.

As Brian says it is now a 45 hole facility. I remember when the second 18 was being built. Unfortunately, I never got to play it.

[PugMom]

Originally Posted by blueash

Oh please please please provide a link to your excellent sources. Explain how, even it were true that Kashoogi were "an op of the muslim brotherhood" that the luring of him into an embassy where he was killed, cut up into pieces and those pieces disposed of in an unknown manner. Is how the world is supposed to work?

Is it possible that some people in the middle east who are not Sunni might find that the Sunni leaders of Saudi Arabia worth trying to oppose in their ongoing religious wars and suppression of non-Sunni voices? And that the Sunni leaders would accuse anyone who opposed them of being members of Isis.

I guess that makes me an Isis member in their eyes

you can google the subject & see a whole bunch of stories come up, from varying sources, domestic & international. i didn't mean to upset anybody, it was just a statement

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

I thought that Jay Monahan was a member at Brae Burn.

The International was originally built to hold a tour event. It was built by a guy named Suprenant and was originally called Runaway Brook. Cables were buried in the ground in order to be able to hook up television cameras. Almost every tee has a drinking fountain. This was a big deal back in the 60s. It was way ahead of it's time.

It is the longest or second longest course int he US. (There are two courses that keep vying for the title by adding a few yards here and there.) Unfortunately, it's length should prove no problem to today's top professional golfers. It's really what they should be playing.

It's been a while since I played there but if I recall the original course is somewhere around 8,400 yards. It was supposed to be a par 77 but I understand that that has now been reduced to 72. I've played several tournaments there and played it from the tips just once in order to say that I did it. I think I shot around 85 or so. Many of the holes were par fives so they were no problem but the par threes were 240 plus yards. In the 70s and 80s those were almost impossible. Some holes had mandatory carries over water that I just couldn't reach.

Another interesting note is that the fifth green is the largest single green in the world. It's over 100 yards from front to back and three levels.

A former head professional there, Bill Eznicki, had several of us go out to that green and bet that we couldn't putt the ball off the back of the green. I couldn't come close. I think that a pro name Paul Barkhouse did it that day.

I would love to see a PGA tour event there. The problem is it's location. As Brian says, it is nowhere near Boston. It is out in the middle of nowhere. The PGA Tour has stopped going to places like that because of the lack of good hotels and restaurants. Every venue these days is near a big city.

As Brian says it is now a 45 hole facility. I remember when the second 18 was being built. Unfortunately, I never got to play it.

You obviously know a bit about the facility.

Bert built the course, because he was denied membership at Worcester Country Club, because he was Jewish. He hired Geoffrey Cornish (big mistake) and told him to built the biggest, longest course in the world. Cornish did the original design & some modifications. Subsequently, Trent Jones, Sr. re-worked a couple of holes, as did Brian Silva. At last tally, it was 8325 from the Tiger Tees. Highest Slope the USGA has ever rated at 172. The "Max" USGA Slope was 155, so that's what it was pegged at. Rating was 80.2 if I remember correctly. The 5th Green is over 28,000 square feet and that hole plays 705 from the Tiger Tees.

I know about as much as anyone about the history, I've been around the club since the late 70's and I don't know anything about the "buried cables". I can tell you, that the Greenskeeper in those days, Ron Milenski, was hot to get the PGA Championship and was close, until the members started complaining and ITT said they weren't interested. This was probably early 80's. Arnie Palmer mentioned in an article a couple of years ago (2017) he'd love to see the Tour guys playing IGC from the back, in a PGA Championship.

Escalante Golf, who bought it last year, has closed down the 9 Hole public course, so it's back to 36 holes. The Oaks Course (Fazio design) has been renovated (without input from Fazio I'm told) and will be the supposed venue for the Saudi tournament if it happens.

Paul Barkhouse was a character and the Pro at Vesper CC. Bill Eznicki (who passed away 3 years ago) was a great guy. He's the only man to play in a Stanley Cup Finals & the U.S. Open. He held the record for quite a while from the Tiger Tees, at 78. Kirk Hanefeld broke his record about 12 years ago, I believe. You're right, it's now Par 73, it was Par 77.

As for putting the 5th Green. I took Bobby Clampett out to play one day. Pin was front center. He lipped out from the back of the Green. Best putt I've ever seen on that hole, from someone who didn't know the Green. On the 7th Hole, playing 275 ... Clampett drove it over the green and from a 40% slope to a downhill pin, holed it for a 2. Best golf shot I've ever seen. I hit Wedge to the front of the Tee box, hit 5 Iron on, made 4.

I don't know Jay, but have met his dad a bunch of times (Winchester CC). Jay could have been at Brae Burn ... his dad mentioned he was in "Belmont", but he may have meant he lived in Belmont and very well could have been a member at Brae Burn.

As for Bert Suprenant ... he "lost" the golf course in a mix up when he sold Suprenant Wire & Cable to ITT.

[kkingston57]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

You obviously know a bit about the facility.

Bert built the course, because he was denied membership at Worcester Country Club, because he was Jewish. He hired Geoffrey Cornish (big mistake) and told him to built the biggest, longest course in the world. Cornish did the original design & some modifications. Subsequently, Trent Jones, Sr. re-worked a couple of holes, as did Brian Silva. At last tally, it was 8325 from the Tiger Tees. Highest Slope the USGA has ever rated at 172. The "Max" USGA Slope was 155, so that's what it was pegged at. Rating was 80.2 if I remember correctly. The 5th Green is over 28,000 square feet and that hole plays 705 from the Tiger Tees.

I know about as much as anyone about the history, I've been around the club since the late 70's and I don't know anything about the "buried cables". I can tell you, that the Greenskeeper in those days, Ron Milenski, was hot to get the PGA Championship and was close, until the members started complaining and ITT said they weren't interested. This was probably early 80's. Arnie Palmer mentioned in an article a couple of years ago (2017) he'd love to see the Tour guys playing IGC from the back, in a PGA Championship.

Escalante Golf, who bought it last year, has closed down the 9 Hole public course, so it's back to 36 holes. The Oaks Course (Fazio design) has been renovated (without input from Fazio I'm told) and will be the supposed venue for the Saudi tournament if it happens.

Paul Barkhouse was a character and the Pro at Vesper CC. Bill Eznicki (who passed away 3 years ago) was a great guy. He's the only man to play in a Stanley Cup Finals & the U.S. Open. He held the record for quite a while from the Tiger Tees, at 78. Kirk Hanefeld broke his record about 12 years ago, I believe. You're right, it's now Par 73, it was Par 77.

As for putting the 5th Green. I took Bobby Clampett out to play one day. Pin was front center. He lipped out from the back of the Green. Best putt I've ever seen on that hole, from someone who didn't know the Green. On the 7th Hole, playing 275 ... Clampett drove it over the green and from a 40% slope to a downhill pin, holed it for a 2. Best golf shot I've ever seen. I hit Wedge to the front of the Tee box, hit 5 Iron on, made 4.

I don't know Jay, but have met his dad a bunch of times (Winchester CC). Jay could have been at Brae Burn ... his dad mentioned he was in "Belmont", but he may have meant he lived in Belmont and very well could have been a member at Brae Burn.

As for Bert Suprenant ... he "lost" the golf course in a mix up when he sold Suprenant Wire & Cable to ITT.

Sounds like a 5+ hour round of golf with good golfers.

[karostay]

Money Money Money

No longer about the sport Matter of fact any sport

[DonH57]

Originally Posted by karostay

Money Money Money

No longer about the sport Matter of fact any sport

Reminds me of the movie Bobby Jones, Stroke of Genius when the reporter played by Malcolm McDowell said, " Money's gonna ruin sports".

[jebartle]

Originally Posted by thevillages2013

Support the China Olympics? That was a question too

Pandemic took care of that question

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Yep, that's how they've been marketing it.

It's an hour & 10 minutes minimum from Boston. With traffic, it's usually closer to 90 minutes.

2 major selling points for this being one of their scheduled sites ... close to Monahan's home and the relationship with Norman. The course doesn't lend itself to a professional tournament. As the name implies, the Oaks course is cut out of the woods, with no spectator areas.

kinda like Monday Night patriot games when they show pictures of Boston always including the State House , we love it in Boston , but it drives them crazy in Foxboro where the stadium actually is

[Badger 2006]

Originally Posted by collie1228

Phil Mickelson, greedy hypocritical "professional" golfer. Net worth reported at $420 Million. And he sells his reputation for $100M to the Saudis. Geesh.

You must deduct Phil’s gambling losses from the $420 mil. Reportedly there may not be much remaining???

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Yep, that's how they've been marketing it.

It's an hour & 10 minutes minimum from Boston. With traffic, it's usually closer to 90 minutes.

2 major selling points for this being one of their scheduled sites ... close to Monahan's home and the relationship with Norman. The course doesn't lend itself to a professional tournament. As the name implies, the Oaks course is cut out of the woods, with no spectator areas.

If I’m not mistaken, the original course was designed specifically for big time tournament golf.
I’ve played the course several times and once from the back tees just to say that I did it.
I also won the NEPGA Gross Championship there and played in the Pro Member a few times.
Wasn’t it Suprenant’s original vision to host a PGA tour event?

You’re right. Hiring Geoffrey Cornish was a big mistake that a lot of people made.
I was involved in a golf course development project in New Hampshire in the 80s. I interviewed several golf course architects and Brian Silva was one. Brian was an associate of Cornish at that time. When I expressed my concerns about Cornish designs Brian told me that a lot of their work at the time was reworking Cornish’s original work.
The reason Geoff got so much work was because he came in with low bids and got the job done on time and under budget.
It just so happened that he designed terrible golf holes.

[Burgy]

Originally Posted by jebartle

PGA will suspend players participating. Greg Norman the organizer of SAUDI League. Saudi recently had mass execution of 81 people who participated in Anti-government protests, many reasons for players to not participate in this league but it's all about the money, $255 million to be exact for 8 events, 4 will be in US.

If you do well in a few of these tournaments you can retire with less competition than PGA tournaments. It will be an interesting couple of years. It is difficult to figure why Michelson is doing it unless his gambling debt is also huge.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Burgy

It is difficult to figure why Michelson is doing it unless his gambling debt is also huge.

He says he wants to get the PGA to make some changes, and believes the competition will encourage them to do it.

I have NO idea if that is true, I am just repeating what I heard him say in an interview.