Meat!
 

Anyone interested in Berns, Fleming’s, Morton’s? Just contact me. Love steakhouses.
And Charlie’s. Berns Tampa.
Rest Orlando. Anytime happy to join a group..,

Post like these really just ignoring all the new research showing that carnivore/keto diets are the best diets for us. Now there is a lot of controversy on being all carnivore. It does NOT make your blood more acidic. That's crazy. But there can be mineral deficiencies and some other things people may concerned about. Cholesterol, heart disease, blood pressure, are not an issue on the Carnivore diet. Not at all.

Carnivore diet has some great benefits to people with auto-immune diseases. Otherwise most people do just fine on a keto diet.

What you all should know by now, the problems with our health and obesity started when the food pyramid started pushing sugars and carb loaded foods like breads and pastas.

FWIW, 2 years ago my doctor wanted to prescribe me (52 years old then) blood pressure meds, diabetes meds, and cholesterol meds. In 4 weeks on Keto and intermittent fasting I dropped over 15 lbs and all my blood tests came into normal range. Since then I'm down 30 lbs and my blood tests/blood pressure are awesome.

This is the same story for almost everyone on these diets. They are easy to maintain also, once the sugar/carb addiction is gone. But it is easy to fall back into carb eating if you start cheating a bit.

Now for the OP, any restaurant can be Carnivore if you just order and ask questions. Regarding seed oils, I don't worry too much if they cook a steak in seed oils. A meal here and there isn't going to cause too much inflammation.

Here are some tips for ordering...

Obviously a steak or burger with no bun, with bacon. Ask for a fried egg on top.
Order a chef salad without any veg, just the meat, bacon, cheese, egg or whatever. Makes a great side to a steak.
Same with a loaded baked potato. Ask for no potato, just cheese, sour cream, bacon. They usually put it in a small bowl and give a good amount.

Unless it's a vegetarian place you can usually pull off carnivore with some creative ordering and don't be afraid to ask for suggestions from the waitstaff. They are getting more familiar with people like us.

“Where’s the beef?”
 

I thought our OP was just looking for a good steakhouse and then I read the rest of the posts about the Carnivore Diet and the Lion Diet. I had never heard of either.

Did Scarsdale beget Atkins beget South Beach beget Paleo beget Keto beget Carnivore beget Lion? ………. At some point, I guess very high protein diets might eventually all turn into The Halitosis & Kill for an Orange Diet.

Not judging. Just wondering. So? Just hunters? No gatherers needed?

I have also learned that I better stop asking people I invite to dinner if they are carnivores before I plan the menu because now if they say yes, that could mean nothing but meat.

I understand being careful about carbs (some) and sugar, but total meat, I could not do. Sometimes I learn new stuff on TOTV and this is one of those times.

Boomer






,

^^^^^

The take home message from all of them, carnivore, keto, atkins, south beach, is that carbs are much worse for us, especially processed foods.

Pizza, pasta, fast food, sugar etc all lead to metabolic disease (insulin resistance) and that leads to weight issues, diabetes, heart disease.

The reason keto/carnivore succeeds is it removes the carb cravings and is incredibly satiating. I eat one meal a day. I'm not hungry, ever. If I continue eating carbs I have cravings for food all day long. Anyhow, just for some background on why this stuff is so popular now.

Humans naturally metabolize saturated fat and protein...Unsaturated fats and carbohydrates are literally poison and cholesterol is vital for human health. Ya, man! We have been lied to about diet for more than 40 years as pointed out by Drs Atkins and Eades.

Meat is food - Plants are drugs, medicine and pesticides.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIRurLnQ8oo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kGnfXXIKZM

Plant oils cause insulin resistance at the cellular level. Mitochondria health is vital for ATP.

Eat just beef and shrimp for 30 days (and water)...Your pants won't fit anymore and your mind will be clearer and those nagging carbohydrate cravings will go away . You can drink black coffee if you must :)

Nice! Thanks. Someone else recommended Bern's to me.

If God didn't want people to eat animals, he wouldn't have made 'em out of MEAT!

Absolutely! There's a reason vegans keep trying to make their food taste like meat.

Ipanema brazilian restaurant in Ocala. 14 different cuts and kinds of meat brought to your table for you to try or turn down.

Whispering Oaks winery on Friday and Saturday nights. For a real special night, drive 80 miles to Berns Steak House in Tampa. Need reservations for Berns months in advance. On Monday nights World of Beer has a hamburger special for $5. Some country clubs have a hamburger BOGO(Glenview on Wednesday nights)

Wouldn't gout be a problem?

thank you. I sent the request to join.

Just about any diet can cherry pick bio markers that may improve after starting it. But that is not a valid scientific method to determine its true impact on health. Neither are anecdotal claims.

Several have mentioned that plants are bad for humans. This is the probably the most ridiculous idea ever posted on TOV. And anyone who believes that is placing their prejudices above overwhelming rational and science based evidence. Our bodies need fiber and animal protein has none. Only plants have it. And most of the vitamins and minerals you receive from eating meat is because the animals get them from eating plants or from being exposed to water and soil like our ancestors were when they gathered food in the wild. There only a few possible medical reasons to avoid some plants such as the rare case of epilepsy.
Diet and nutrition | Epilepsy Society

There is a site, pubmed.gov, which posts most of the medical literature and studies from established and credentialed organizations. Any medical or diet recommendations should should be accompanied with multiple citations from this site or other renowned medical organizations. One advantage of meatless diets not often discussed is the it takes 20 times more water to produce a calorie of protein from meat than it does a plant. Calculating water footprints of animal, plant proteins

And what about heart disease? There is only one program for heart disease reversal that is reimbursed by Medicare. Ornish Lifestyle Medicine The key part of it is a plant based diet. Also the Cleveland Clinic which is considered the #1 hospital for heart disease also has a program to reverse the disease for those who are not candidates for surgery. The Esselstyn Heart Disease Program | Cleveland Clinic Both programs have many years of data to validate them. Is there a carnivore program for reversing heart disease that has decades of data to validate it? Please share.

And if you have Type 2 diabetes? A balanced whole food, plant based diet in most cases reverses that. A plant-based diet for the prevention and treatment of type 2 diabetes - PMC. The Best Diet for Preventing and Managing Diabetes

Kidney disease too.
Conclusions: Higher adherence to healthy plant-based diets and a vegetarian diet was associated with favorable kidney disease outcomes.https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31023928/


The bottom line is that our ancestors primarily ate plants because that was available which is why we don't have the type of teeth and intestines to eat raw meat.

If you want to return to your ancestral diet, the one our ancestors ate when most of the features of our guts were evolving, you might reasonably eat what our ancestors spent the most time eating during the largest periods of the evolution of our guts, fruits, nuts, and vegetables—especially fungus-covered tropical leaves.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...l-vegetarians/

To be fair, there are credible studies out there that suggest that the Mediterranean or similar diets also have beneficial health benefits. But all of the blue zones receive most of their protein from plants.

I hope we get a thread for Carnivore believers. Then maybe the negatives will stay away. This one was started by a person looking for a restaurant, and see where it went.

You nailed it. You are believers. Kind of like a religion because you don't have credible science to back it up.

I wasn't going to post anything until I read some of the messages which were outrageous.

Plants will kill you, man.
Unsaturated fats and carbohydrates are literally poison
Meat is food - Plants are drugs, medicine and pesticides

If people are going to post demonstrably false statements that can persuade others to follow their terrible advice, then don't be surprised to see messages that shine the light of truth on the topic using scientific and fact based evidence.

Just read where Darden restaurant chain has bought Ruth Chris. Perhaps we will get one in The Villages.

Carnivore
 

There’s a Brazilian Steak house in Ocala call Ipanema. Excellent!
We’ve gone a couple times. Nice atmosphere and great food!

Have a nice day.

Brazilian Steak House is excellent for carnivores

Learn to cook sous vide. I favor the Sous Vide Supreme with ten years of trouble-free service. The "stick circulators" are cheaper, but have moving parts that can fail and they make some noise in use. Great steaks however you like them. The same for any meat, including cuts like chuck steak which requires a good 48-72 hour cook to be tender, yet still cooked rare to medium rare. The beauty of it is that you will always end up with your protein cooked to exactly what you wanted and it is not time sensitive, so you take out the meat and give it a 60-120 second sear when everything else in your meal is ready.

Google "sous vide" to learn more. If you go that route, it is hard to beat Jason Logsdon's "Modernist Cooking Sous Vide" for learning and guidance.

Learn to cook sous vide. I favor the Sous Vide Supreme with ten years of trouble-free service. The "stick circulators" are cheaper, but have moving parts that can fail and they make some noise in use. Great steaks however you like them. The same for any meat, including cuts like chuck steak which requires a good 48-72 hour cook to be tender, yet still cooked rare to medium rare. The beauty of it is that you will always end up with your protein cooked to exactly what you wanted and it is not time sensitive, so you take out the meat and give it a 60-120 second sear when everything else in your meal is ready.

Google "sous vide" to learn more. If you go that route, it is hard to beat Jason Logsdon's "Modernist Cooking Sous Vide" for learning and guidance.

We’ve had one for a couple years, like it for some things. It does roasts well, but I prefer my steaks fried.

Let me "demonstrate".... Diabetes. How's that?
More than half of all Americans are at least pre-diabetic...That ain't from ribeyes.
Insulin Resistance is a pervasive medical emergency that is curable by - not eating plants or plant oils, um, Demonstratable.

Your correct. I’ve never been on a cattle ranch in Florida.
But compared to Midwest cattle our Florida cows are scrawny.
The first time we drove the kids through the state my son said, “Mom look at the big dogs.!”
For excellent beef people are recommending Ocala, Orlando and Miami. Point made.

Trying to read this with an open mind. Of course, these "studies' are run by the same folks in bed with the pharma industry.

In the end I think we can all agree that a carnivore diet can fix metabolic syndrome and a vege diet can also fix metabolic syndrome. We could argue over the nutritional benefits and risks forever. To be sure there are likely good arguments on both sides.

But again, we can all agree that obesity, diabetes, blood pressure, etc are all caused by high carb, high processed sugars and grains. There are going to be vegetarians that are obese and have Type 2 because they can eat pasta and sugar and rice and all the garbage that makes us sick. Carnivores don't have that issue.

Based on everything I've read I think a whole foods, very low carb, keto type diet is the way to go. As for the carnivore diet, I think it's a great elimination diet for people that may have sensitivity to certain plant based foods. If you have health issues, inflammation, auto-immune etc. go carnivore and see if it helps. Then you can introduce veges 1 at a time back into your diet. Stay low carb and you'll probably be fine.

Not sure how you came to the conclusion that the WFPB crowd has ties to the pharmaceutical corporations. Most physicians who are certified in lifestyle medicine are successful in reducing or eliminating prescriptions for their patients through education.
Home - American College of Lifestyle Medicine

With regard to diabetes we can agree that processed simple carbs should be avoided.

Diet composition has a marked impact on the risk of developing type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular disease. Prospective studies show that dietary patterns with elevated amount of animal products and low quantity of vegetable food items raise the risk of these diseases. In healthy subjects, animal protein intake intensifies insulin resistance whereas plant-based foods enhance insulin sensitivity.

ScienceDirect.

If animal protein was a big part of the answer to solving our worst illnesses such as diabetes and auto immune diseases and could be substantiated by peer reviewed studies on pubmed then the meat producers and egg industry with their deep pockets would be running commercials to promote it. They can't because there are none and they would be punished with massive fines. The best they can do is promote the Mediterranean diet which allows some fish and eggs but emphasizes whole food carbs.

Funny thing. I put in carnivore diet in pubmed and all that comes back are articles about dogs and cats.

When I referred to studies in bed with the pharma industry I was referring not to the things you linked, but the medical literature that pushes the standard American diet that is high in carbs.

Regarding your assertion that there is no evidence supporting a high fat, low carb diet all I can say is what I said before. I was 240 lb. My A1C was 5.7. My blood pressure was ~190/110. My cholesterol was very high (250ish I think).

I researched a bunch as the doctor was prescribing me 3 different meds. I decided to do the keto diet and 5 weeks later I got my blood work done. My A1C was 5.0. My cholesterol was under 200. My blood pressure was down to 140/90. I felt better and I was down to 200 lbs. My mental clarity was amazingly improved in a few months. I can't really explain it but I was performing better at work and felt much better mentally and physically.

So all I can say is this is the first diet I tried that I lost weigh, was sustainable (over 2 years now and no problems staying on this diet), blood work is great. Everything those YouTube videos said would happen happened.

Now as far as plant based, I did that a few years back. That was like 2017. I lost a lot of weight. My bp and cholesterol did drop (I was doing very clean plant based, not much refined carbs). But I felt like absolute ****. I had no energy and I craved garbage foods all the time. I think I lasted 4 months or so before I crashed and gained all my weight back.

Of course this is all anecdotal, but I keep hearing the same thing from everyone trying keto or carnivore. It works for me. I've yet to hear anyone complain about it except the folks that never actually tried it.

It has been pretty much proven that low-carb diets are the way to go if you want to lose a lot of weight quick. They've been around pretty much forever too, different names but a lot of similarities, all basically "Keto". Some sixty years ago the "meat cheese and egg diet" was a thing. Following that came Adkins. I myself did the Slim-4-Life diet some 25 years ago and actually lost 70 lbs. on it! Gotta hand it to those Slim-4-Life people: most of the clients were pudgy middle-agers like myself, but all the "counselors" at the center (you had to go twice a week for a weigh-in and tale-of-the-tape session, and also to collect your ridiculously expensive diet additives) were young, attractive women who really lavished the praise whenever your weight was going in the right direction. I've been able to keep most of it off but still experience the yo-yo effect, going up 10, then back on keto and lose 10, then gain ten, etc. But easier to lose 10 than 70.

I agree you lose weight fast switching to an all animal protein diet. I did it once and lost weight quick. Didn't have the discipline to stick to it. Years later I researched the whole food plant based diet and discovered that the medical research was much more credible than the low carb diet.

Secrets of the Loma Linda Blue Zone diet: Centenarians’ good nutrition habits and whole foods as key
Wholegrains, vegetables, fruit and cancer risk - WCRF International

Since there is no society I know of that is exclusively animal protein, I hope the meat industry puts together a long term study for the carnivore diet. I can't find one. If the results come back positive then I will be persuaded and do a mea culpa.

Lol I prefer any study be done by someone other than the industry that gains from positive results. I wouldn’t trust a study done by the meat industry on the carnivore diet. There was a study by Harvard that confirmed the positive effects I mentioned.

The Harvard Carnivore Diet Study: Findings and Takeaway - Dr. Robert Kiltz

The best steakhouse in the world is a bit out of town.
The best thing you will ever put in your mouth.
Chianina.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbB80gc_EuY

Bistecca alla Fiorentina.
Watch this woman's reaction starting at 8:50...She is not acting :)
The first time I had this, I almost fell off my chair. The waitress thought I was having a stroke :)
Put it on your carnivore bucket list.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoJ731H3S6g

Now that it is world famous, it has got expensive. The first time I was there I think it cost the equivalent of $15.

Best post
 

BEST post in this thread. It was full of accurate, valuable links and information. Thank you. Unfortunately, due to massive cognitive dissonance, most readers will not believe anything except their narrow views about the "healthy" wonders of red meat. Darwin's Law?

Love it

So I should ignore the fact that the keto/carnivore diet cured all my health issues because there are links to other studies?

This statement right here is the problem... "There is a site, pubmed.gov, which posts most of the medical literature and studies from established and credentialed organizations. Any medical or diet recommendations should should be accompanied with multiple citations from this site or other renowned medical organizations."

These "renowned medical organizations" are the same orgs that taught my last doctor to tell me, "You're over 50, nothing you can do. Just take the pills and you'll be fine."

These organizations are the ones in bed with the pharma companies. FWIW I don't think all plants are killing people. I think some plants may be killing some people. Starting a carnivore diet is a good way to figure out which plants you may be sensitive to.

[QUOTE=frayedends;2277438]So I should ignore the fact that the keto/carnivore diet cured all my health issues because there are links to other studies?

You can believe whatever you want but when some on this thread start proclaiming the the carnivore is a healthy diet that cures many ill and that plants are dangerous without citing credible peer reviewed literature then you shouldn't be surprised when others respond with science and fact based evidence.

Were you truly cured or did the symptoms go away. Are there long term negative consequences that you don't know about? We have no idea unless you are willing to provide your entire medical record which probably isn't appropriate on this site.

I could provide anecdotal evidence that I had significant improvement by going plant based but it would be almost worthless because it is just one data point. That is why I reference articles from established and credible medical organizations that substantiate their findings with established medical protocols and years of data.

Pubmed.gov. If you can find information that backs up your beliefs then I would be most interested in reading it.

[QUOTE=ithos;2277454]I think there is a lot we agree on. As far as a vegetarian diet, I don't think it's sustainable and I don't think it's healthy. Just about every vegetarian I've met looks sickly thin and seems to have very low muscle mass. That is, of course, excluding the "vegetarians" that are obese because they eat tons of processed carbs.

But this is just my opinion. As far as research, I won't be trusting anything "Dot Gov". They are the people telling us to eat mostly pasta and bread.

I guess I wouldn't share my personal medical history here, but my A1C went from 5.7 (any higher is diabetic) to 5.0 in an extremely short time. I lost 30 lbs quickly and my BP and cholesterol have been fine. We are on a couple years now. Again, though, I didn't do strict carnivore, just very low carb.

In any case, I've fallen victim to what I complain about and derailed a thread. The OP didn't ask us for advice on the diet. So I think we can agree to disagree on some points and move on to good meat recommendations.

IT WAS A SURVEY! And then they made the disclaimer
"The generalizability of these findings and the long-term effects of this dietary pattern require further study."
Of course they are going to get positive feedback because in the short term there are benefits.

Study limitations
This study was based on self-reported responses to an online survey.
Recalling what exactly one eats in a week, month or year is notoriously difficult.
And there is no way to objectively verify the accuracy of self-reported eating habits and health outcomes.

As far as what Harvard officially recommends, it is more of a Mediterranean diet.

Protein power – ¼ of your plate.
Fish, poultry, beans, and nuts are all healthy, versatile protein sources—they can be mixed into salads, and pair well with vegetables on a plate. Limit red meat, and avoid processed meats such as bacon and sausage.
Healthy Eating Plate | The Nutrition Source | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

And they are also a key participants of long term study of nurses started in 1976
Nurses' Health Study |

CNN
—
A large new study by Harvard researchers suggests having just two servings of red meat per week increases risk for developing type 2 diabetes later in life, and the risk further increases with greater consumption, according to the study published Thursday in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.

“The association between red meat and type 2 diabetes has been observed in different populations worldwide,” said the study’s first author Xiao Gu, a postdoctoral research fellow of nutrition at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, via email. “We keep strengthening existing evidence with improved data and techniques. I hope our study could settle the debate regarding whether we should limit red meat intake for health concerns or not.”

It is a great body of research because of longevity and the number of people surveyed. And they cover much more than diet.

Never mind. No sense derailing the thread anymore.