Most restaurants that raised their wages and stopped tipping, went back to tipping. The biggest chain that tried it (Joe's Crab Shack) went back to tipping within three months.

My View
 

Two observations.

1. Europe has a more stratified society than we do. Food servers are unlikely to aspire to a higher level on the social scale than the position they hold. The pay is adequate and their job is secure, so they are content. Many Americans are engaged in food service to support their aspirations to move up in education, employment, income and social status.

Barbara's granddaughter worked in food service while working her way through Texas State University. Now, only three years out of college, she holds a management position in a construction company where she makes $75,000 a year. I assure you that she tips well when she dines out.

2. Restaurants operate on a thin profit margin. If they paid their food servers "a living wage" then they would have to increase the menu prices of their meals considerably. You would end up paying as much or more than you now pay for meal plus tip, so just relax and go along with our tipping custom.

Incidentally, unless the service is noticeably sub-par, I routinely tip 20% on the meal cost, not including tax. For service that is much less than what is expected, I still tip 10%. There may be reasons for the poor service that I am not aware of, and I consider 10% a gift to a person in distress.

Different view.
 

I have a different view, based in part on having eaten in some of the finest and most expensive restaurants in New Orleans' French Quarter, and in Cajun BBQ shacks out in the Bayous.

In the restaurants in the Quarter, you have real silverware and crystal on white tablecloths with subdued lighting and candles on the tables. You are attended by multiple service staff attending to everything from keeping your water glass filled to using an electrostatic comb to clean up the flakes of French Bread that fall on the tablecloth when you break the bread. The service staff is impeccably attired, varying according to their duties, and they speak softly and politely. There is a quite, peaceful ambiance.

The meal comes in courses, which are spaced out to provide a comfortable pace for eating, and you are never rushed into ending one course to begin the next. This encourages relaxed conversation among the diners and a general feeling of contentment. By the time you finish your after dinner coffee or drink, you may find that two hours have passed.

In contrast, at the Cajun BBQ shack you are seated at large wooden outdoor-style picnic tables, your order is taken, and the entire order comes to your table at once. You tend to eat quickly, and if you linger too long, your server will start clearing away your plates, bring your check, and stand at your elbow waiting for you to pay. You are expected to finish up in 30 to 40 minutes.

NOW, if you occupy a table at the expensive restaurant for an extended period of time, you are depriving the server(s) of an opportunity to get another diner at that table, and another tip. How terribly thoughtless of you!

The solution is not to "gobble and get" as you would in the Cajun shack, but rather to pay a larger tip for the extended use of the table. Think of it as a fee that you are paying for the additional amenities that enhance the ambiance of the dinner.

This is not correct. Right next door in Canada, wait staff are paid $15 an hour at minimum and eating out was more often than not less than here. BTW, most still give 15% tip to them but it is a tip in the true sense....bad service, no tip.

Just in case you don't have enough information on tipping, here are two other threads with 109 posts. :wave:
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...hlight=tipping
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...hlight=tipping

I don’t believe Carl’s post had anything to say about Canada. His post was spot on IMHO. It’s been many moons since I have eaten in a Canadian restaurant but wonder is the overall dining experence significantly higher with all things being about equal?

My apologies, after revisiting your post I see you already answered my question about prices for eating out in Canada - - more often less even with a 15.00 wage.

:rolleyes: You know what they say..... "What's the difference between a Canadian and a canoe? You can get a canoe to tip!":1rotfl:

Well that explains a lot! I enjoy HGTV and the show Property Brothers used to have a lot of properties on their show from Canada. They were most always doubles or homes from the thirties that were about 12' wide and they started at 400K. I always wondered why real estate was so expensive in Canada. Now I have a clue....They raised the minimum wage!

I agree with this.

As for another of your observations from a different post--that of restaurant servers in Europe being stratified--I have to disagree on two points: one is that they actually do have movement in their professions--seniority, head waiter, maitre d', sommelier if they go after the education and experience for it--and two is that it is a very well-respected profession in Europe.

Also, as an anecdote... a waiter at our favorite resto in Montepulciano, Italy, left to take a marketing position with a winery in the area due to his extensive experience he gained serving the wines in this restaurant. He was so cute too. Dang.

I definitely am not among the wealthy in TV. I worked retail not as a server to get through school. I just wanted to say that if you are receiving food or drink and it is 2 for 1 I believe you should double that amount and then tip. The server is bringing more food and drink and deserves to be tipped appropriately. My husband knows the rule, if you can't afford to tip you can't afford to eat out so stay home. Many servers are putting themselves through school and may also be raising children. In addition they sometimes must share tips. To explain if you go to Codys and get the 2 for 1 fajitas you should tip on $26 not the $13 for one. What $1.00 means to you may make a huge difference for the server. If we want good service treat them correctly. Btw I always tip 20% after doubling the amount too. I know many others here also feel this way!

We have noticed that a compliment on something to a waiter or waitress before we begin interacting usually brings great result's. At our age aren't we supposed to be doing the right thing? Who am I to tell anyone who is as tight as a crabs butt what to do with their money? I would say let your conscience be your guide. If you don't have the money to tip then probably eating at home would be best. I always think about the server as if they had a couple of kids at home and have financial responsibilities that we all have and they are not doing the job to stay busy. Imagine the person to be someone from your family. We start at 20% and sometimes more but never ever less.

I like your attitude about waiters and waitresses. :)

But I can’t say I understand why you would tip 20% for truly poor service...at least if the poor service can be directly attributed to your waiter or waitress and not the establishment.

tipping
 

We tip on service but that being said it was a 15% tip when the servers were not making the min. wage---BUT NOW ????

For us and us only, we have truly made great strides in giving up the battles we used to think about and be concerned over. We truly haven't gotten caught up in the bad service thing. We have gotten a few poor meals but I don't bury the establishment the way others do. My shift of being on watch has ended, I'm trying to be happy and healthy and live as long as possible. That's the whole reason we moved here. I'm trying to lose the Jersey Edge, but it still shows up sometimes, I'm still under construction. :pray::rant-rave:

I really like your answer, Nucky.:wave: Be well and be happy. Now's the time.

Oh, and get a dog. :-)

I'm with you, Nucky.

I totally agree, Nucky. I don’t...and never did...fret a moment for poor service. But I also don’t tip 20% for it. ;)

Agree . We always acknowledge and engage wait staff when seated. It does go a long way in the way we are treated and served.

thank-you for your post---you're a role model

Experience of Family Members
 

One son and two daughter-in-laws have worked as servers so I have heard plenty of both positive and negative feedback on tipping. My baseline is 20% generally rounded up to the nearest dollar. I have "photo ID required" on my credit card which automatically results in at least $1.00 additional tip if asked for ID - rarely happens in The Villages. I believe many restaurants under staff servers which results in slow and/or less than optimal service however, there are obvious differences in server training and or level of experience. Poor service can be either a lack of training/experience or a lack of capability. Either reason reflects back upon management.

Anecdote
 

I would point out that the progression you describe, although increasing in prestige and income, is still in the food service trade.

I do realize that there are certain high quality restaurants in the United States where food service is a highly attractive and highly respected occupation. Here in Tampa the Columbia Restaurant has had waiters and cooks who have worked for the restaurant for decades, and have clientele who specifically request their service. Their management treats them with the courtesy and respect that they deserve. They are an asset.

My point was more that when you encounter a waiter in Europe, he is likely to have an expectation of a career as a waiter. When you encounter a waiter in a college town in America he is more likely to be a college student, perhaps preparing for a career in law or medicine. Or, if in New York or Los Angeles, perhaps aspiring to act on Broadway or in the movies.

I, too, have an anecdote. Antoine's in New Orleans is one of those venues where many of the diners have a favorite waiter. I did not dine there often enough to have one. One night I was entertaining an old friend who was the State's Attorney from Tampa. I had not asked for any particular waiter.

Our waiter turned out to be turning 75 years old and this night was his last night at work before retiring. In addition, he had been working at Antoine's for 50 years. He had been a server for President Franklin Roosevelt when he visited Antoine's in the 1930s.

But, there's more. He was an immigrant from a small town in Spain. He had come to America along with his best friend from the town, who by coincidence was the father of my guest. Their greetings and reunion was glorious. And our service that night was impeccable.

I enjoy and reward good service anywhere, esp restaurants. Panera (LSL) had adopted a new system in the last months. Noticed about 8 months ago and since. When ordering (from front counter person), if paying by credit card, a suggested tip% screen comes up before the signing screen. On each occasion the Panera clerk leaned over the counter to watch the entry. And each time in the last 8 months we visited (3 times), I pushed the 10% entry. And each time I was a bit angry feeling pressure to tip AT A COUNTER. My fault - and next time I will speak with the mgr or pay cash. Want to be nice and considerate but this is an over-reach IMO. I will also email Panera headquarters to voice displeasure. oh well.

While I'm whining - McAllisters in BW, with the same front counter service - has a posted NO TIPPING policy, and their prices are better for IMO better food than Panera. And now after spouting off, I am writing off Panera for lunches - and will go to VKI Japanese for a nicer lunch at the same price...with table tipping which is AOK. I will still write Panera to get it off my chest... Man I feel so much better - ToTV can be better than a Shrink visit...and no tipping.

I believe your granddaughter may fallen into the same trap that many other young people have found. She has developed an expectation of her own worth that is outside the free market dynamics. While she may have an expectation of an 18-20% tip, either her clientele is not willing to pay it or her job performance does not warrant it, or both. I would advise her to focus on the only two things she can control: her own job performance and where she works. If she is not happy with the money then she can work harder (or smarter) or find another job. Blaming your customers is never a good place to go. If she has started to anticipate that the tip will not meet her own expectations then this may be reflected in her attitude and job performance and then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Your suggestion that servers may not be valued as people or the job they have chosen is not valued, is the application of a morality argument. I have never bought into those sorts of guilt trips and blame games.

normal tip
 

The normal tip of 15% may have been normal 10 years age, but the normal tip now is 18% to 20%. Servers don't even make minimum wage.

The bill before tip has gone up over the last 10 years....hence the 15% is still a valid number.

15% of the higher number results in more money than 10 years ago....right?

In FL, the hourly rate for a server plus the tips must equal the hourly minimum wage or the employer is required to make up the difference. In other words, servers are guaranteed at least the hourly minimum wage.

I don't believe there is a "normal". I tip anywhere from 100% to 0% but I don't expect anyone else to do this. You should tip according to what makes sense for you.

Food prices have also risen due to inflation, therefore, a 15% tip 10 years ago is most likely the same dollar value as a 15% today.

Not to be argumentative, but I do not believe servers earn the regular minimum wage. They earn less. I don't know why.

As I already stated, in FL, the total of the server's hourly rate (a few bucks per hour) plus their tips must add up to the minimum hourly wage or the employer must make up the difference. Therefore, their pay can have 3 components: their regular hourly wage, their tips, and any make up money, if required, by their employer. They are guaranteed to make at least the minimum wage. This is FL law.

Wife and I will not eat at a restaurant that adds a service charge to the bill.... Presumptuous
If we pay with a card (rarely) I will not add tip to card....Never trust management.
We always tip with cash at table.......50cents, whatever the service!!!


(Actually I am a good tipper.)

I hope so! 50 cents is a slap in the face. But I think you were kidding. I agree with tipping in cash. It has mor chance of going directly to the server.

It's only $5.23
 

Just to keep this information in perspective, the Florida hourly minimum wage for tipped employees is $5.23. Not exactly wonderful.

Quote: "Employers must pay their employees the hourly state minimum wage for all hours worked in Florida. The definitions of employer, employee, and wage for state purposes are the same as those established under the federal Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) and its implementing regulations. Employers of tipped employees, who meet eligibility requirements for the tip credit under the FLSA, may credit towards satisfaction of the minimum wage tips up to the amount of the allowable FLSA tip credit in 2003. However, the employer must pay tipped employees a direct wage. The direct wage is calculated as equal to the minimum wage ($8.25) minus the 2003 tip credit $3.02), or a direct hourly wage of $5.23 as of January 1, 2018."

Details at http://www.fau.edu/hr/florida-minimu...nouncement.pdf

Thanks for the clarification.

The point is they are guaranteed at least the minimum wage regardless of whether they receive any tips at all.

Wow.
 

Wow. A royal $5.23 an hour.

Notice that they are assumed to receive tips or $3.02 an hour, whether they do or not. (This is because it is known that some people tip in cash, which the server might not report to management.)

The employer is required to pay $5.23 an hour, not the Florida minimum wage of $8.25 an hour.

A person who is stingy with tips should get cold comfort from the fact that the server would get $5.23 an hour anyway.

I use 20% as a baseline,...then look for reasons to increase.

Very seldom do I decrease and even when I do...never below 15%.

I can afford it and gain no pleasure, as some people I've seen and known, in saving a couple of dollars...at the expense of those not as fortunate.

An EX friend made the mistake of sliding money back to me at the table and saying..."you tipped too much." :mad:

I also leave $3-$4 a night for hotel housekeeping.

My post was in response to the post regarding servers making minimum wage. You miss the point and you are wrong with your conclusion. Servers are guaranteed to get the minimum wage ($8.25/hour, not $5.23/hour) regardless of the tips they receive. Go back and read the law. They can certainly make more and that is entirely up to them and the choices they make. The employer is required to make up the difference if their tips don't cover the difference. There is no attempt on my part to state anything other than the facts. If you want to introduce some sort of morality issue into the discussion then please start another thread. I am not really interested in such discussions since what people make is mostly a result of their choices.

You are correct.
 

Yes. A closer look tells me that tipped servers get at least the Florida Minimum Wage of $8.25 an hour. When I am wrong, I acknowledge it. That's still pathetic compensation.

On your second point, I didn't introduce "morality" into the discussion. Several previous posters have already touched upon tipping people even for poor service as a matter of compassion for the less fortunate.

Decades ago I began overtipping older female food servers in honor of the fact that my mother did not have to work at such laborious duties in her "Golden Years."

As Shakespeare said, Compassion cannot be forced. You have it or you don't. "It is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
‘T is mightiest in the mightiest; it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown: ......
It is enthronèd in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself;" --- (The Merchant of Venice)

You had used the word "stingy" in your previous response to describe tipping habits. Also, you used the word "pathetic" in this response to describe compensation. To me, that sounds like you are making moral arguments. People, by and large, receive compensation according to the revenue (and the margins on that revenue) they bring into a business coupled with the supply and demand for their skill sets (at least in the private sector). While I tip pretty well, I neither concern myself with nor make judgement calls on what others tip and I really have very little impact on what servers make (regardless of how much I tip).