[Bill32]

We can over think any issue to death. I'm not a lawyer or a CPA. We all here in The Villages have been around the block a few times. I married into restaurant family in my previous life and no it inside out. I've owned my own business ( not hospitality) am a union member for many years, so I've been around. I'll say again, you can look at this from any angle you want to but if it quacks like a duck it's probably a duck.

IF THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY WANTS THIS BILL IT'S FOR THEIR BENEFIT NOT THE WORKERS.

Keep it simple friends, maybe some of you can come up with examples on how lowering someones wages improved their standard of living?????

[Bill32]

Unfortunately we are probable better informed than the workers but maybe someone should ask them how they would feel getting a pay cut. If they feel they would be better of at the state minimum wage than why break your back waiting tables??? Work for McDonald's or Walmart!

[Bill32]

Originally Posted by memason

From everything I have read about this bill and the details that were posted by ilovetv, which came directly from the bill language, it seems to me that this bill actually has a positive impact on servers. They will be guaranteed a minimum wage of $7.67/hr....

I am not able to find a single link that substantiates the claims made by the OP or that the restaurant association is behind this bill.

Bill32....perhaps you can provide some links that substantiate your claims.

Sorry...I just don't get it...

Here is one article

Florida Minimum Wage Could Be Slashed For Restaurant Workers

[Bill32]

Originally Posted by mulligan

If it weren't for the large number of older (resident?) servers, who are willing to work cheaply for something to do or just play money, it would probably be worth the effort to organize a villages-wide local union, and demand a better pay system. A minimum living wage( like san francisco's at around $10), or a stop to tip sharing. Let the servers raise their standard of living.

This is a classic case where a union would be useful.

[Bill32]

Ken Follett's new book based during the late 1800's and early 1900's. Very interesting time period when workers were trying to raise their standard of living to where they are today. Classic struggle between the ruling class and the workers.

[mulligan]

Just to be completely clear, I meant a reasonable minimum PLUS tips.

[Graytop]

Originally Posted by Bill32

We can over think any issue to death. I'm not a lawyer or a CPA. We all here in The Villages have been around the block a few times. I married into restaurant family in my previous life and no it inside out. I've owned my own business ( not hospitality) am a union member for many years, so I've been around. I'll say again, you can look at this from any angle you want to but if it quacks like a duck it's probably a duck.

IF THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY WANTS THIS BILL IT'S FOR THEIR BENEFIT NOT THE WORKERS.

Keep it simple friends, maybe some of you can come up with examples on how lowering someones wages improved their standard of living?????

....I respect your opinion though I don't neccesarily agree,...thank you for starting this thread. It spurs investigation and good dialogue...

[Bill32]

Originally Posted by Graytop

When you talk about helping to pay the wages of co-workers, are you referring to pooling tips?...If so, I agree wholeheartedly with you on that. I've always been disappointed with restaurants that do not allow their servers to keep their own tips. It takes away the incentive for personal excellence.

From a business standpoint, companies are always looking for ways to reduce expenses and they shouldn't be regarded as evil or being "the big bad wolf" for doing so. They are in business to make a profit. Some people seem to think that making a profit is wrong or evil. Any business that doesn't keep a close eye on their bottom line will not survive long,.....then no one will have a job there. And I don't see where it's a bad thing when a company is looking for ways to legally pay less taxes. They would be foolish not to, and yet some people seem to think that these companies have an inexhaustable source of money to give to the government or employees. Here is a news bulletin,....your employer is not in business to provide you a living, not primarily,.... That may be a benefit to you for working there. They are in business to make a profit for themselves. If people are too naive to understand this, then private sector business is doomed in our country.

No one objects to them making a profit. The point is they are banding together to depress wages to make a higher profit. I'm really surprised that so many here don't get it. Cook the food better, give better service, spruce up the decor, run some specials, go the extra mile, that's free enterprise but donating large sums of money to certain Senators campaigns to get legislation favoring them is just wrong!
If the government wanted to help the small business people cut their taxes and regulations. not cut the already meager salary of the employees.

[Bill32]

Originally Posted by Graytop

....I respect your opinion though I don't neccesarily agree,...thank you for starting this thread. It spurs investigation and good dialogue...

No problem, glad to help..........

[redwitch]

Originally Posted by Graytop

When you talk about helping to pay the wages of co-workers, are you referring to pooling tips?...If so, I agree wholeheartedly with you on that. I've always been disappointed with restaurants that do not allow their servers to keep their own tips. It takes away the incentive for personal excellence.

From a business standpoint, companies are always looking for ways to reduce expenses and they shouldn't be regarded as evil or being "the big bad wolf" for doing so. They are in business to make a profit. Some people seem to think that making a profit is wrong or evil. Any business that doesn't keep a close eye on their bottom line will not survive long,.....then no one will have a job there. And I don't see where it's a bad thing when a company is looking for ways to legally pay less taxes. They would be foolish not to, and yet some people seem to think that these companies have an inexhaustable source of money to give to the government or employees. Here is a news bulletin,....your employer is not in business to provide you a living, not primarily,.... That may be a benefit to you for working there. They are in business to make a profit for themselves. If people are too naive to understand this, then private sector business is doomed in our country.

No, I'm not talking about pooling tips -- don't like the practice but at least everyone earned the tips. I'm talking about servers having to give up 10% of their tips to pay busboys, hostesses, expediters and the like (sometimes even managers!!). BTW -- this 10% is not always figured by actual tips; frequently, it is the 18% IRS figure. So, even if this bill were to be passed to "guaranty" servers a minimum of $7.67 an hour, the reality is the vast majority would still be making less. No matter how look at it, servers are helping to pay the salaries of their co-workers. Talk about obscene!

But, using your logic, I guess this practice is perfectly acceptable and should be accepted by servers (sadly, it is but only because they have no choice). I suppose it is also acceptable that servers have to work off the clock to do prep and closing work? No, there is nothing wrong with a business trying to make a profit but should that profit be made by cheating others?

Don't forget that this bill greatly favors large chains. It will cause smaller restaurants to go out of business, much like chain supermarkets got rid of ma and pa grocery stores. Our kids don't miss those grocery stores since they never saw them. I do.

[Graytop]

Originally Posted by redwitch

No, I'm not talking about pooling tips -- don't like the practice but at least everyone earned the tips. I'm talking about servers having to give up 10% of their tips to pay busboys, hostesses, expediters and the like (sometimes even managers!!). BTW -- this 10% is not always figured by actual tips; frequently, it is the 18% IRS figure. So, even if this bill were to be passed to "guaranty" servers a minimum of $7.67 an hour, the reality is the vast majority would still be making less. No matter how look at it, servers are helping to pay the salaries of their co-workers. Talk about obscene!

But, using your logic, I guess this practice is perfectly acceptable and should be accepted by servers (sadly, it is but only because they have no choice). I suppose it is also acceptable that servers have to work off the clock to do prep and closing work? No, there is nothing wrong with a business trying to make a profit but should that profit be made by cheating others?

Don't forget that this bill greatly favors large chains. It will cause smaller restaurants to go out of business, much like chain supermarkets got rid of ma and pa grocery stores. Our kids don't miss those grocery stores since they never saw them. I do.

I was just stating that it's normal for a company to watch their expenses. If they're mistreating their employees and cheating them out of wages, then that is wrong. If this is such a large problem in the restaurant industry then people should unite and fight for change, but lets not just relegate restaurant workers into some sort of "victim" status. I see a tendency going on in society to villify big business no matter what kind of business it is. If there are facts to back it up, fine, if not, let's not just jump on the "evil corporations" bandwagon,...that's too easy. Go out there and fight for your cause!

I have worked in restaurants, a couple different times in my life, so I'm not completely ignorant of what goes on in there.

I apologize if I've offended anyone by my comments. Like you, I'm entitled to my views, even if they are wrong sometimes. Thanks for responding. My lips are sealed,....this is my last post on this thread unless I'm asked to respond.

[The Villager II]

I have a standard tip of 20% or if very happy with service, then 25 to 30%. I always give tips in cash even when paying the bill on a credit card. Cash is easy to manage by the wait person. If you want to get a better picture of how things work, go to the parking lot and watch what the wait staff drive up in compared to the owner. That will not tell the whole story, but gives you and idea of how the profits are distributed. Before you give me the monitary risk for the owner vise the waiters, also include what your toughts are on the labor given through the act of serving the customers.