That is right. I chose the charity I want to donate to, and my wealthy friends have family foundations for charities. At most what grocery and other stores could do is bring your attention to charities in need. Then one decides if and how much to support them.

True!

Most people that I know don't mind tipping and don't find it intimidating.

If they are working a low end job, it should be a filler for spending in high school. Anyone working in the range above a fast food level, should be doing quite well for themselves for a part time job if they are any kind of server at all. Some make $700. in tips working Mother's Day brunch. This would be top-notch servers who celebrate Mother's Day for themselves one day early or one day later. Why not for that type of reward? The Villages may be a different animal but along with the cheap tippers there are those who are very generous when tipping. I'd like the whole thing wrapped up in the price and firm. Servers are no different than nurses, Drs., customer service at your local store who are paid an appropriate wage. We don't worry about the level of service from them, why should food servers be any different?

I don't think the 400 plus posters on this thread or the Pew Research Center findings would agree.

How Americans feel about tipping for service | Pew Research Center

As one of the top three posters on this thread, I agree that I don't mind tipping. As for the survey, it doesn't have any data on that question. Yes, it asks whether tipping is more of an obligation or a choice but paying for my meal is an obligation but I don't mind doing it.

Too bad they don't make a button for those of that volition.."I LOVE to TIP". They could wear them when going to the restaurants and give the servers a heads up to get ready for a nice, big tip.:pepper2:

Not intimidating. Just expected, assumed and entitled to it, you cheap %^&#.
I say, let them be fully paid by their employer first. The, and only then, the customer can decide if the person who willingly chose to work part-time with no bunnies, deserves a gift rather than put it in a fund for junior.
Last night wife and I had a simple dinner item at N. Lopez. Our waiter was serving a table of 12, a table of 8, and a couple tables of 4 and we 2. A party of sorts at the 2 larger tables although we noticed the couples all got separate checks. Thy all had appetizers, cocktails, soup/salad, entree. And bottles of wine for each table. Desert, of course? Hefty bills, I'm sure.
Wife and I had a single dish each and 1 Coke each. A small loaf of brown bread, not ordered was brought to our table. (A freebie? ). Our bill, $108.xx. service was fine. We tipped the requisite 20%.$22 (rounded). IF every couple tipped only $22 like us tips came to $660. And we know the filled those tables again because all tables were full when we arrived and when they departed the next groups arrived. I would be curious to know how much that waiter makes in a year, cash in hand, tips only. It only takes $62.50 per hr in the 800 hrs he works in a year to make $50,000. If minimum wage is $13, he only needs $49.5. 3 $20 tips won't be hard to com by in a half decent place. Of course you won't see that everywhere, but waitstaff don't all have it bad. Many are making a far better living than I ever did.
Just saying.

Good info.

You're assuming that said waiter makes that same amount every single night, 5 nights a week. That is typically NOT the case...

WRONG!
Reading is fundamental. 4 nights per week for 4 hr shift for 50 weeks per year.
Not assuming. Just showing that in some restaurants making $50K a year part-time, thanks to outrageous tipping, is very likely.

- You have your waitress simultaneously handling the equivalent of eight tables. Does that seem right? (I've never eaten at Lopez or paid that much attention)

- Your math is a bit off. You listed 30 people which would be 15 couples and would come to $330 at $22/couple.

- Were you really part of a group of 30 waiting for those seven tables to clear and did you really have to push your way through the next 30 who were waiting for you to finish and leave? Not to mention those who were waiting for other tables in the restaurant.

Busy nights vs slow nights, busy shifts vs slow shifts, tip-outs.... all will work to lower the nightly tip. One online source estimated $200-$300/night in take-home tips. $300/night * 200 nights = $60,000. Good money just in tips but I bet there are few who actually make that. (I just checked and we have spent over $100 *including* tip only three times this entire year. Meals at most restaurants don't come to $108 per couple)

Except you said NONE of that in your rant... Writing a coherent post is fundamental as well...

Waiter. Reading.
We two (wife and self). Reading.
Table of 12, table of 8, 2 tables of 4. And "we two" table of 2, not part of the group. Reading.
Lopez CC is one of the nicer CC restaurants. Prices a little higher than most. Waiter had help resetting the tables between groups. One other person. No "push your way through" if one is blessed with patience.
As for my math, the $22 was based on our bill. No cocktails, drinks, bottles of wine. 2 glasses of unsweetened tea. No appetizers, soup, salad, upgrade additions, just 1 plate each of a nice entree. So, no ups, no extras. We paid for the "atmosphere".
I used $660 because we actually observed 2 seatings. I didn't add any more, even though there was time for more seatings. Also, our tip was quite likely the lowest by far based on observation of what others were ordering and what was delivered.
There are certainty restaurants that offer less expensive experience. But there are lots of restaurants nationwide that offer much more expensive experience. Busy or slow, nights or shifts, "tip-outs" (whatever it is), doesn't matter. The waiter/waitress is who I tip. What he/she does with their money is up to them. None of my business.

Sorry. But now you are on board. I'll try to do better. OK?

Well *that* makes a difference!

I never said anything different.

12 + 8 + 2*4 + 2 = 30. (math)

You wrote about 30 people being served. You wrote that the tables were occupied when you arrived, occupied while you were eating, and occupied as you left. That meant 30 people must have left as the 30 that included you arrived and the 30 that ate after you were waiting while you paid. That's a lot of people moving around all at once. If that wasn't the case then maybe the room wasn't quite as busy as you made it sound.

I guess I misunderstood when you wrote:
You didn't mention a second group until after that statement and you actually mentioned a third group. So which is it, 15 couples, 30 couples, or 45 couples?

There certainly must be servers who make a great deal of money but there are more who don't work at lots of restaurants nationwide that offer much more expensive experience. Here in the Villages the more expensive experiences seem to be outnumbered by the less expensive experience by at least five to one.

What he/she does with the tip money is not up to them at all and all that does matter when making assertions about how much they are pocketing. The $50,000 assertion falls apart quickly when looking at more than the twenty and two ones you left on the table.

[QUOTE=Bill14564;2453137

What he/she does with the tip money is not up to them at all and all that does matter when making assertions about how much they are pocketing. The $50,000 assertion falls apart quickly when looking at more than the twenty and two ones you left on the table.[/QUOTE]

I gave a gratuity/gift/tip to the waiter. What he decides to do with it is not any concern of mine, or anyone else. If he is robbed, call a cop or a lawyer. Santa Claus gave me a bb gun. I shot a bird. I'm sure Santa would be disappointed in me, but he isn't responsible. I did it. I made the bad decision. Who make the decision for the waiter what to do with His gift? And, why should we care what job choices others make.

So just don't tip, if you find the practice so offensive. It's your right to tip, or not. No one is forcing you to tip. Give the server nothing. I mean they're all getting stinkin filthy rich off their 4-hour shifts, they won't miss your $20 bill once every few months.

Long thread, needs to go to bed. If you want to be the big tip people, go for it. It one doesn't like tipping, cook at home or dine where tipping isn't necessary. We all don't have to want the same thing.

I would worry that if the server recognizes you as a bad tipper the food you get has ingredients you would not want.

Actions (and refusal to act) have consequences. He has the right not to tip any of his servers. And the proprietor/manager has the right to not serve him if the trade-off is to lose good servers. It's all good.

His employer has a say in what is done with the tip.

We don't need to care but we shouldn't make assertions on topics we know very little about.

Studies show that different ethnic groups tip differently.

As an owner, I would be very reluctant to refuse service to someone because they didn’t tip or tipped poorly. The publicity and social media circus would not be worth it.

The Tipping Divide : NPR

Thank you for permission. Your approval matters. Just wish all employees had full pay, not everyone except servers. Just makes no sense to me.

Where isn't tipping "necessary"?

Would a professional food server tamper with food entrusted to them to take to the paying customer? Nooooo! ACHOO!.

In what way does the employer have a say in what the intended recipient can do with his gift? Please enlighten me. Are threats involved? Is intimidation or bullying involved? Is theft involved?

This is where one should do some reading before posting.

The US Department of Labor allows the employer to have a say:

The FLSA allows employers to require employees to share or “pool” tips with other eligible employees.

McDonald’s, Burger King, etc.

Fast food for sure and other areas of self service, carryout and any counter ordering where you pick up your own food. It is not my problem if the business is stiffing the cooks and register ringers. I went once where you ordered your own food, got your own beverage and they brought the food to the table, (sandwich joint) that was it and you were to clean off the table and dispose of the trash when you left. The checkout receipt required a predetermined rate schedule for a tip to total the receipt.. 15%, 20% or more if one wanted that. I never went back and they are out of business.

LOL. That study is 22 years old. Maybe things have changed since then?

29 pages of posts has not resolved the problem of not everyone thinking alike. Maybe another 40 pages will change some opinions.

At most restaurants server tips are shared with bussers, hosts and bar staff. At a typical restaurant 20% of server tips are "tipped out" Of the 20% tip-out 40% go to bussers, 40% to bartenders and 20% to hosts. So of your tip 80% will go to the server, 8% to the bussers and bartenders, and 4% to the hosts. But those are just typical values. It will vary by restaurant.

At some places you also have food runners, or back-of-the-house wait staff who actually deliver the food to customers. They also share in tips.

If you want your tip to go only to the server, then tip in cash. At many places, it is only credit card tips that are divvied up. Servers keep their cash tips. For me it is the opposite, I want the tip shared, so I generally pay by credit card.

Wait a minute, it’s our money in the first place.

Yes, my daughter when she worked part time in college, said the same thing. Personally, if I tip, I don’t mind that it is shared with all the people involved in making and serving my food.

Oh please. Pulling the race/ethnicity/minority/women card is silly. Anyone who wants to abuse that doesn't even need to be refused service. They just have to CLAIM they were refused service. It's not a thing that happens by people who refuse to ever tip at restaurants where servers are tipped employees.

>Ring, ring...
>John's Fancy Restaurant, how may I help you?
>Reservation for 6, tomorrow at 7:30 please. For Susie Jones.
>(Host goes to check for reservations, and a big honking DO NOT SERVE pops up on the tablet.
>Sorry Mrs. Jones, we're all booked up for parties of six until 2026.

Susie shows up without a reservation...host sees her again...
>Sorry Mrs. Jones, there aren't any available tables for you tonight.
or...
>Sure Mrs. Jones, we can get you in, in hm - let me check, it's 5:30 now? Try 9:30, I think we'll have a table next to the kitchen then.

Susie shows up and the host doesn't want to deal with it, so Manager shows up:
>Ah Mrs. Jones. We're unable to provide you with service anymore, unless you pay your tip in advance. We require an 18% minimum gratuity and we can tally it before we send your order to the kitchen.

Another possibility:
>Hello Mrs. Jones. No, we won't be serving you now, or ever again. What's that? You'll call the press? That's fine. We've saved all the orders you've put in for the past month and have pulled up our video recordings we keep for security purposes all over the restaurant in plain view of our patrons, with time and date-stamp proof that you never tipped any of the servers, while ringing up significant charges and taking twice the time as our other diners. If you are that dissatisfied with our tipped servers, you are welcome to seek your dining experience elsewhere. Or we'll show the receipts at your press conference.

And yet another one:
>No service for you Mrs. Jones. Why? Because we don't like you. We have the right to refuse service to anyone as long as it doesn't discriminate against protected classes. Refusing to tip is not a protected class. Go away now, or we'll have a police officer trespass you.

Lots of options.

That made me laugh, nothing like a group of old people trying in their last days, to get other old people to think the same way even though it's never worked before in their life. Have a really nice day everyone even if you don't think like me.:wave:

Check back when we hit 1000 posts. We'll miss you.

That was fun!