[Idaholady]

Does anyone know anything about solar panels? Good idea? Bad idea? Would they blow away in a hurricane? Do they really save on electric bills?

[Stu from NYC]

We had considered it but several neighbors have it and the payback is on the side of it might be longer than we have to walk this planet.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Idaholady

Does anyone know anything about solar panels? Good idea? Bad idea? Would they blow away in a hurricane? Do they really save on electric bills?

In my opinion, it is a bad idea. It will not save you money on a life cycle basis because the payback period will probably be 15 years or longer. Also, it may increase the cost to replace the shingles on your roof. And, they may make it harder to sell your house because some people don't want them.

[villagetinker]

There were several threads on this subject, the general opinion was fairly long payback, and do not get involved with any of the leasing options.

[Toymeister]

I'm the poster that has a whole house electricity monitor, arguably with millions upon millions of data points on a designer, all electric home, the most informed about electricity consumption here.

I can say without a doubt solar panels do not make economic sense, under current prices and laws, for a couple in the Villages.

It is not that solar isn't noble or will Generate zero electric bills. It is how, when and how much solar is generated. You would generate more at solar noon than you consume, and sell to the utility at wholesale (approx 7 cents a kwh). But buy it at night or non peak hours at 11.7 cents (retail).

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by Toymeister

I'm the poster that has a whole house electricity monitor, arguably with millions upon millions of data points on a designer, all electric home, the most informed about electricity consumption here.

I can say without a doubt solar panels do not make economic sense, under current prices and laws, for a couple in the Villages.

It is not that solar isn't noble or will Generate zero electric bills. It is how, when and how much solar is generated. You would generate more at solar noon than you consume, and sell to the utility at wholesale (approx 7 cents a kwh). But buy it at night or non peak hours at 11.7 cents (retail).

When we were looking to purchase a house very end of last year met a fellow who had solar panels and claimed he was breaking even on electricity.

He did say he got a great deal in purchasing the panels.

Any chance he was on the level?

[rjm1cc]

The panels can supply all your electric if you install enough panels, lets say 33. For Duke you generate power in the day and send the excess to Duke and they nicely return it to you at night at no charge. At the end of the year (Dec.) if you have excess power they pay you at I think the whole sale rate (very low rate). You start all over in Jan so you could have a small bill that month, but again it depends on the number of panels and how much sun you get for the month. Duke also charges you about $10 a month but this can be paid from the electric you use. (Note when Duke's power goes out your panels stop producing for safety reasons.)

Payback is long and if you are doing this just to make money you probably wan to forget it.

One way to look at it is what you can earn on the money you would spend on solar if you put the money in the bank and used the interest to pay your electric bill. Remember to add in taxes on the interest income. You will have to estimate rising electric rates. Lets say after tax rebates the system cost you 20,000 (probably a little higher) and supplies 100% of your electric. Lets say you spend 1200 a year now on electric. That means your 20,000 has to earn about 6% plus maybe 0.25% to cover taxes. You won't do that in a save investment. Thus you could look at investing 20,000 in solar and you never get it back (but you had no electric bills) vs say putting 60,000 in a 2% bond and leaving the bond in your estate. Its your choice. By the way if you assume a 20 year life for the panels and the 1200 per year does not increase you saved 24,000 in electric bills. This is just a way you might look at return and naturally you have to put real life numbers into your analysis. I would also add an estimate for removal and replacement when you put a new roof on and you may have some maintenance expense.

[gogond]

I’m not totally up to date on Florida state laws pertaining to solar but I do know they are anti solar. Gotta protect those fossil fuel companies. To much pay back to politians. One gentleman suggested that you pay $1200 a year in electric bills. I find $100 a month hard to believe. I live in Hawaii. Here the state is very pro solar I guess being we have the highest electric rates in the country. With that being said we put solar on our house. 18 panels cost just about $18,000. The state gave us $5,000 and the federal $7500. So the panels cost us just about $6,000. My electric bills are now $10 a month. And that’s an all electric house.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by gogond

I’m not totally up to date on Florida state laws pertaining to solar but I do know they are anti solar. Gotta protect those fossil fuel companies. To much pay back to politians. One gentleman suggested that you pay $1200 a year in electric bills. I find $100 a month hard to believe. I live in Hawaii. Here the state is very pro solar I guess being we have the highest electric rates in the country. With that being said we put solar on our house. 18 panels cost just about $18,000. The state gave us $5,000 and the federal $7500. So the panels cost us just about $6,000. My electric bills are now $10 a month. And that’s an all electric house.

My electric bill last month was $78, and about $1100 for the past year. Hawaii may have given you $5000, but I think that was a tax credit. Since Florida doesn't have an income tax, there would be no benefit to a tax credit. The current Federal tax credit is 26 percent, but in 2022, it will be zero. When solar contractors and independent solar panel proponents calculate the payback period for solar panels, they assume that the initial cost to buy the system has no investment value. So, essentially, if you save $20,000 but not installing a solar system, they assume that you will put that money under your mattress for 20 years or so.

[Toymeister]

Originally Posted by gogond

I’m not totally up to date on Florida state laws pertaining to solar but I do know they are anti solar. Gotta protect those fossil fuel companies. To much pay back to politians. One gentleman suggested that you pay $1200 a year in electric bills. I find $100 a month hard to believe. I live in Hawaii. Here the state is very pro solar I guess being we have the highest electric rates in the country. With that being said we put solar on our house. 18 panels cost just about $18,000. The state gave us $5,000 and the federal $7500. So the panels cost us just about $6,000. My electric bills are now $10 a month. And that’s an all electric house.

In a few words this isn't Hawaii. Electricity is 65 to 75% less, there are no state incentives. There is not the solar competition here that Hawaii has

This is but one example why you can leave what you know from your home state behind. It is not New Jersey either.

[Windguy]

Originally Posted by gogond

I’m not totally up to date on Florida state laws pertaining to solar but I do know they are anti solar. Gotta protect those fossil fuel companies. To much pay back to politians.

Having worked at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory for 35 years, I am very pro solar and wind. However, I have done nothing here because the laws here truly are pro fossil fuels. When I need a new roof, I may get solar roof tiles and a battery if the prices continue to drop as they have been. Just because something is not economical today doesn't mean it won't be in our lifetimes.

Think about the fact that the utility unfairly pays you wholesale prices for your excess. Well, you might think, a power plant gets wholesale. What's the difference? Well, the energy from the power plant must go through an expensive distribution system to get to your house and there are losses along the way. If you generate excess electricity, it goes to your next door neighbor and costs the utility nothing. That doesn't seem fair to me. Also, when you are generating excess energy, it's during the heat of the day (sunny!) when demand is high. The utility should pay you more to sell during peak usage than at other times.

If you have an electric car, you should charge it at night when demand is low and pay low rates. If your car holds more than you will use in a day, you could partially discharge your battery into the grid at peak times and sell it at premium prices. You could make money that way. Tesla supposedly has written the software to do it, but has not yet enabled it.

But, the fossil-fuel industry doesn't want this to happen and they exert great pressure on politicians to keep it that way.

[Toymeister]

I would also toss out this friendly notice not to take general statements like my bill is Xx.Xx as a representative bill unless you get a true base line, like My bill is Xx.xx, I like keeping my A/C at 78 degrees, I am single, and my home is 1100 sq ft.

[photo1902]

It’d be nice to hear from people who live here that actually have PV panels installed, and get their feedback and opinions. Data points, speculation and hearsay are all wonderful, but let’s hear from some actual owners/users.

[biker1]

I gave a talk at NREL about 15 years ago. What a great facility and great location. I enjoyed my interaction with the fine people working there.

Originally Posted by Windguy

Having worked at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory for 35 years, I am very pro solar and wind. However, I have done nothing here because the laws here truly are pro fossil fuels. When I need a new roof, I may get solar roof tiles and a battery if the prices continue to drop as they have been. Just because something is not economical today doesn't mean it won't be in our lifetimes.

Think about the fact that the utility unfairly pays you wholesale prices for your excess. Well, you might think, a power plant gets wholesale. What's the difference? Well, the energy from the power plant must go through an expensive distribution system to get to your house and there are losses along the way. If you generate excess electricity, it goes to your next door neighbor and costs the utility nothing. That doesn't seem fair to me. Also, when you are generating excess energy, it's during the heat of the day (sunny!) when demand is high. The utility should pay you more to sell during peak usage than at other times.

If you have an electric car, you should charge it at night when demand is low and pay low rates. If your car holds more than you will use in a day, you could partially discharge your battery into the grid at peak times and sell it at premium prices. You could make money that way. Tesla supposedly has written the software to do it, but has not yet enabled it.

But, the fossil-fuel industry doesn't want this to happen and they exert great pressure on politicians to keep it that way.

[villagetinker]

Originally Posted by Windguy

Having worked at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory for 35 years, I am very pro solar and wind. However, I have done nothing here because the laws here truly are pro fossil fuels. When I need a new roof, I may get solar roof tiles and a battery if the prices continue to drop as they have been. Just because something is not economical today doesn't mean it won't be in our lifetimes.

Think about the fact that the utility unfairly pays you wholesale prices for your excess. Well, you might think, a power plant gets wholesale. What's the difference? Well, the energy from the power plant must go through an expensive distribution system to get to your house and there are losses along the way. If you generate excess electricity, it goes to your next door neighbor and costs the utility nothing. That doesn't seem fair to me. Also, when you are generating excess energy, it's during the heat of the day (sunny!) when demand is high. The utility should pay you more to sell during peak usage than at other times.

If you have an electric car, you should charge it at night when demand is low and pay low rates. If your car holds more than you will use in a day, you could partially discharge your battery into the grid at peak times and sell it at premium prices. You could make money that way. Tesla supposedly has written the software to do it, but has not yet enabled it.

But, the fossil-fuel industry doesn't want this to happen and they exert great pressure on politicians to keep it that way.

I have worked in the parallel Generation area from the utility side, and directly with many people from NREL, the points above are very valid, Florida is NOT solar friendly. I helped write the standards that are used for this equipment. I came from PA which is a deregulated state, and is much more solar friendly.

Also as noted above do NOT trust any salesmans pitch about solar. If you cannot make your own independent analysis of the overall costs, call your financial advisor (or someone you trust) to help with an independent review of the actual costs. All of my analysis indicates a 20+ year payback if I buy the panels myself, and no payback for leased arrangements.

Make sure you include the annual maintenance costs (occasional cleaning), repairs, removal for roof replacement (roof 15 to 20 years, solar 25 years+), battery replacements if you go that route, inverter failures, etc.