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-   Sports Talk (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/sports-talk-132/)
-   -   Female Boxer in Olympics really a man? (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/sports-talk-132/female-boxer-olympics-really-man-351833/)

Topspinmo 08-03-2024 08:59 AM
What I’ve read ( for what that’s worth?) she born female with extremely high testosterone. IMO not uncommon with all the natural Tom boys around. Women weightlifter’s and bodybuilder’s good examples IMO. :duck: o add women rugby players also:shocked:

fdpaq0580 08-03-2024 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjobob (Post 2355758)
Just my opinion , if males are allowed to compete with females as equals in sports althogh men are proven to be superior in stength then physically castrate all the males that compete stopping testosterone advantage.
OUCH! I don't want a medal that bad. This I'll stay home and watch the sopranos compete. 🫠😉

Taltarzac725 08-03-2024 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Topspinmo (Post 2355836)
What I’ve read ( for what that’s worth?) she born female with extremely high testosterone. IMO not uncommon with all the natural Tom boys around. Women weightlifter’s and bodybuilder’s good examples IMO. :duck: o add women rugby players also:shocked:
Hope for more researched and intelligent answers like this one.

Some of those rugby players are very big. Probably for the scrums.

fdpaq0580 08-03-2024 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 2355834)
That will go over big. Want to become a sponsor?

Let's take it a step further. How about one for gays?
Gays in all walks of life, including sports, is nothing new.

fdpaq0580 08-03-2024 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CybrSage (Post 2355833)
The anti doping rules should be applied. Too high test, banned.
Why is the testosterone too high? Injections, Y chromosome? If Injections, anti doping would disqualify for all competition. If Y chromosome, may still qualify for men's sports, depending on other qualifiers. Details can matter.

nn0wheremann 08-03-2024 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 2355448)
If he/she has X AND Y chromosomes then he is a male, PERIOD. They call it women's sports, not men's sports or he/she sports.....just women's or men's sports. For those that want everything in life to be fair, I find it very disingenuous to believe that men should be allowed to participate in women's sports, regardless of what they believe they can identify as. I find it hard to believe that women are not shouting their heads off against this attempt to destroy women's sports. Not all forms of segregation are bad.
Quoting from the referenced article in Wired magazine, “ In her career, she competed in the Women's World Boxing Championships in New Delhi in 2018 (finishing in 17th place)…”. I wouln not want to run into the woman who finished in 16th place in a dark alley on a cold and stormy night.

fdpaq0580 08-03-2024 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CybrSage (Post 2355830)
IMO, give equal opportunities and create a trans sport league.
Men, women, trans. Sports is now saved and everyone is treated equally.

I feel oppressed I cannot compete in the Special Olympics. My ex said I should qualify...
Aww! Don't feel oppressed, or depressed. I think you're special! 😉☺️🫠

Pat2015 08-03-2024 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 2355534)
Keep it simple what does birth certificate say? Test the DNA. No exceptions made
Birth certificates in some places can be changed. DNA is the only absolute test as that does not change. You are the sex that you born and that can never be changed.

star50 08-03-2024 10:30 AM
Fair?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 (Post 2355687)
CNN had a good thoughtful segment on this woman tonight on the Laura Coates show.

Maybe try Googling it.
This person was born a woman, has been a woman her entire life and has been competing as a woman (beaten by women a number of times). Why should someone born with an unusual chromosome be barred from competing when she has passed all the rules necessary to compete. Maybe you would rather have her competed with men and beaten badly. Look up all the physical anomalies that the greatest male swimmer of all time (Michael Phelps) had and tell me he should not have been able to compete either.

Pat2015 08-03-2024 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by star50 (Post 2355882)
This person was born a woman, has been a woman her entire life and has been competing as a woman (beaten by women a number of times). Why should someone born with an unusual chromosome be barred from competing when she has passed all the rules necessary to compete. Maybe you would rather have her competed with men and beaten badly. Look up all the physical anomalies that the greatest male swimmer of all time (Michael Phelps) had and tell me he should not have been able to compete either.
This person was assigned female at birth with XY chromosomes. Let’s just do a DNA test for those who fail gender tests and move on. DNA doesn’t lie as no one can change the sex that they were born.

Taltarzac725 08-03-2024 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by star50 (Post 2355882)
This person was born a woman, has been a woman her entire life and has been competing as a woman (beaten by women a number of times). Why should someone born with an unusual chromosome be barred from competing when she has passed all the rules necessary to compete. Maybe you would rather have her competed with men and beaten badly. Look up all the physical anomalies that the greatest male swimmer of all time (Michael Phelps) had and tell me he should not have been able to compete either.
Not sure why you are addressing me? The CNN segment was very much supportive of this female athlete 's right to compete.

rpalumberi 08-03-2024 11:07 AM
Not sure about your post.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy (Post 2355440)
Imane Khelif is the topic of a lot of social controversy. .
Lets refresh her history to be sure we aren't getting misinformed by social propaganda

The Shameful Controversy Over Olympic Boxer Imane Khelif | WIRED

Seems to be its her turn to be the top of the hill in the type of field which the Olympics fields is much different than annual world championship events. .

So if the person has been medically cleared, has been competing in the same category all her life, not just now, and now the person starts to win, its time to be outraged on what grounds? first time awareness bias via social media?

Are you being fair or just being part of the headlines mob rule of everything you read on the internet is true? where was this outrage at the last Olympics?

yes part of the article is behind a paywall, for me as well, but the main points are visible after declining the subscription offer.

do you still think/feel that you aren't manipulated by news/social media? maybe Russian misinformation? 4 years of internet misinformation starting to confuse everyone?
We are told men can punch 2.6 times harder than a woman. Did want to share our opinion - it is completely bizarre that this is happening. Makes no common sense. Truth is there are two genders - you are, what you are when you are born with certain sex parts. If they want to mutilate their bodies and take certain drugs to change that, that is their business - don't expect us to pay for that, like that it occurs (celebrate their insanity) or even sees these misguided individuals. We have every right to our opinion, just like anyone else.

Laker 08-03-2024 11:46 AM
Covid is not the real pandemic...
 
... the real pandemic is called "open minded ignorance". That is where you open your mind so far that your head gets full of air. The people who support men being allowed to compete against women have this malady.

Btw, I now identify myself as "The King of England", so you may address me as "Your Majesty". :eclipsee_gold_cup:

Two Bills 08-03-2024 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by star50 (Post 2355882)
This person was born a woman, has been a woman her entire life and has been competing as a woman (beaten by women a number of times). Why should someone born with an unusual chromosome be barred from competing when she has passed all the rules necessary to compete. Maybe you would rather have her competed with men and beaten badly. Look up all the physical anomalies that the greatest male swimmer of all time (Michael Phelps) had and tell me he should not have been able to compete either.
There's a new GOAT now.
Léon Marchand of France.

Stu from NYC 08-03-2024 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laker (Post 2355904)
... the real pandemic is called "open minded ignorance". That is where you open your mind so far that your head gets full of air. The people who support men being allowed to compete against women have this malady.

Btw, I now identify myself as "The King of England", so you may address me as "Your Majesty". :eclipsee_gold_cup:
Good afternoon your heiness. BTW I thought my horse was in line to become King.

Bill14564 08-03-2024 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat2015 (Post 2355881)
Birth certificates in some places can be changed. DNA is the only absolute test as that does not change. You are the sex that you born and that can never be changed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat2015 (Post 2355885)
This person was assigned female at birth with XY chromosomes. Let’s just do a DNA test for those who fail gender tests and move on. DNA doesn’t lie as no one can change the sex that they were born.
We cannot conflate "sex you were born with" and gender. Whether they were taken to be the same in the past, they are not the same today. We need to accept that and learn how to deal with it. Beyond that, no serious official or reporter is suggesting that the Algerian boxer was EVER considered to be male in any way.

XY chromosomes does not equal male. That's not my assertion, that's science. The doctor and the parents cannot see what chromosomes a baby has but they can see what sex it is.

What evidence is there that this boxer has XY chromosomes? Are you taking the insinuation of a Russian official from a discredited organization? Based on a test they won't name and results they won't disclose? A test which was administered after the Algerian boxer beat their Russian boxer and conveniently led to the disqualification of the Algerian?

Vickim 08-03-2024 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy (Post 2355440)
Imane Khelif is the topic of a lot of social controversy. .
Lets refresh her history to be sure we aren't getting misinformed by social propaganda

The Shameful Controversy Over Olympic Boxer Imane Khelif | WIRED

Seems to be its her turn to be the top of the hill in the type of field which the Olympics fields is much different than annual world championship events. .

So if the person has been medically cleared, has been competing in the same category all her life, not just now, and now the person starts to win, its time to be outraged on what grounds? first time awareness bias via social media?

Are you being fair or just being part of the headlines mob rule of everything you read on the internet is true? where was this outrage at the last Olympics?

yes part of the article is behind a paywall, for me as well, but the main points are visible after declining the subscription offer.

do you still think/feel that you aren't manipulated by news/social media? maybe Russian misinformation? 4 years of internet misinformation starting to confuse everyone?
Pathetic this world has come to a point where men can beat women up in public arena and some see it as “progressive “. It is anything but ! Not confused because I have a working brain !

Dgodin 08-03-2024 12:21 PM
just the facts ma'am
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Normal (Post 2355447)
Imane Khelif was born in a male body…full stop!

Medical enhancements of any kind should automatically disqualify her/him

Whatever is going on psychologically is of no concern.

If I’m wrong, would gills disqualify a swimmer? Would surgically added muscle mass disqualify a weightlifter?
I found this from ABC sports:

"The Algerian boxer was born female, was registered female, lived her life as a female, has a female passport," the International Olympic Committee (IOC) said in a press conference on Friday.

I guess I should end with FULL STOP.

jarodrig 08-03-2024 01:41 PM
If you were born with a *****, you’re a male.

If you were born with a vagina, you’re a female.

Period. End of story !!

CFrance 08-03-2024 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarodrig (Post 2355939)
If you were born with a *****, you’re a male.

If you were born with a vagina, you’re a female.

Period. End of story !!
What the heck. Why is it okay to say vagina but not *****? (male genital part)

jimbomaybe 08-03-2024 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarodrig (Post 2355939)
If you were born with a *****, you’re a male.

If you were born with a vagina, you’re a female.

Period. End of story !!
If your programing doesn't match your plumbing you have issues

jarodrig 08-03-2024 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbomaybe (Post 2355946)
If your programing doesn't match your plumbing you have issues
Deal with those “issues” outside of an international sporting event !!

jarodrig 08-03-2024 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFrance (Post 2355945)
What the heck. Why is it okay to say vagina but not *****? (male genital part)
Good point ! :)

Stu from NYC 08-03-2024 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarodrig (Post 2355963)
Good point ! :)
Scratching my head over that

Danube 08-03-2024 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy (Post 2355440)
Imane Khelif is the topic of a lot of social controversy. .
Lets refresh her history to be sure we aren't getting misinformed by social propaganda

The Shameful Controversy Over Olympic Boxer Imane Khelif | WIRED

Seems to be its her turn to be the top of the hill in the type of field which the Olympics fields is much different than annual world championship events. .

So if the person has been medically cleared, has been competing in the same category all her life, not just now, and now the person starts to win, its time to be outraged on what grounds? first time awareness bias via social media?

Are you being fair or just being part of the headlines mob rule of everything you read on the internet is true? where was this outrage at the last Olympics?

yes part of the article is behind a paywall, for me as well, but the main points are visible after declining the subscription offer.

do you still think/feel that you aren't manipulated by news/social media? maybe Russian misinformation? 4 years of internet misinformation starting to confuse everyone?

Russian misinformation? Almost all Russians consider him a man (because he is).

What does that tell you?

Bill14564 08-03-2024 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danube (Post 2355970)
Russian misinformation? Almost all Russians consider him a man (because he is).

What does that tell you?
It tells me that, sadly, many on here will believe Russian misinformation over credible reporting.

SoCalGal 08-03-2024 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jameson (Post 2355731)
So far the guys in women's boxing are winning. Pretty much like any other sport when men are allowed to "compete" against women.

https://x.com/statusvintage/status/1...077280/photo/1

SoCalGal 08-03-2024 05:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by star50 (Post 2355882)
Look up all the physical anomalies that the greatest male swimmer of all time (Michael Phelps) had and tell me he should not have been able to compete either.
Like what? It's pretty clear Michael Phelps was born a male.

JMintzer 08-03-2024 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by star50 (Post 2355882)
This person was born a woman, has been a woman her entire life and has been competing as a woman (beaten by women a number of times). Why should someone born with an unusual chromosome be barred from competing when she has passed all the rules necessary to compete. Maybe you would rather have her competed with men and beaten badly. Look up all the physical anomalies that the greatest male swimmer of all time (Michael Phelps) had and tell me he should not have been able to compete either.
A male who has been beaten, multiple times, by women has no business competing in the Olympics in the first place...

They are suppose to have minimal standards and qualifying events...

And Michael Phelps has no more "physical anomalies" that any other olympic athlete... He's just better at his sport than all of them...

fdpaq0580 08-03-2024 09:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laker (Post 2355904)
... the real pandemic is called "open minded ignorance". That is where you open your mind so far that your head gets full of air. The people who support men being allowed to compete against women have this malady.

Btw, I now identify myself as "The King of England", so you may address me as "Your Majesty". :eclipsee_gold_cup:
Sorry, Laker, I'm not British. 🫅🤴

fdpaq0580 08-03-2024 10:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarodrig (Post 2355939)
If you were born with a *****, you’re a male.

If you were born with a vagina, you’re a female.

Period. End of story !!
Not necessarily. Normally, yes. But not 100% of the time. Anomalies, mutations, etc. Ever hear the term "hermaphrodite"? 2 X is female. 1X and 1Y is male. With more then 2 chromosomes I believe that there could be a possibility of male or female extra "enhancements. In the case of boxer Imane, if "she" has 2 X and 1 Y, she would possibly be female with male related advantages/enhancements. Like naturally high testosterone. If she has1 X and 2 Y (if that is possible) my guess is a person super masculine with some female traits, but that is just a guess on my part. My opinion for competitors qualificationis based on a person with the usual/normal 2 chromosomes.

fdpaq0580 08-03-2024 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFrance (Post 2355945)
What the heck. Why is it okay to say vagina but not *****? (male genital part)
Sexist censorship? No. Vagina is the proper term for female genitalia. ***** is the proper term for male genitalia. If the proper term for male genitalia is somehow inappropriate, perhaps the moderator would be willing to explain why.

Stu from NYC 08-04-2024 04:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 (Post 2356032)
Sexist censorship? No. Vagina is the proper term for female genitalia. ***** is the proper term for male genitalia. If the proper term for male genitalia is somehow inappropriate, perhaps the moderator would be willing to explain why.
Hooe we get answer

Caymus 08-04-2024 05:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 (Post 2356032)
Sexist censorship? No. Vagina is the proper term for female genitalia. ***** is the proper term for male genitalia. If the proper term for male genitalia is somehow inappropriate, perhaps the moderator would be willing to explain why.
Better marketing. I heard of the Vagina Monologues but not the ***** Monologues. :laugh::laugh:

SoCalGal 08-04-2024 05:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 (Post 2356030)
Not necessarily. In the case of boxer Imane, if "she" has 2 X and 1 Y, she would possibly be female with male related advantages/enhancements.
The most prominent example is Tula, a super model who has Kleinfelter syndrome. Here is her story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXvrtBsyCbc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztHpE4pcpOs

ThirdOfFive 08-04-2024 06:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 (Post 2356032)
Sexist censorship? No. Vagina is the proper term for female genitalia. ***** is the proper term for male genitalia. If the proper term for male genitalia is somehow inappropriate, perhaps the moderator would be willing to explain why.
According to this website called "giggeli", there are 800 terms that could be used in place of The Appendage That Shall Not Be Named.

LeRoySmith 08-04-2024 07:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2356071)
According to this website called "giggeli", there are 800 terms that could be used in place of The Appendage That Shall Not Be Named.
801 since that French dude knocked the bar off the pole vault with his yesterday...

https://youtu.be/nhxw_aMcPCg?si=RGJRaYz-zHhQjgrO

PugMom 08-04-2024 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Normal (Post 2355447)
Imane Khelif was born in a male body…full stop!

Medical enhancements of any kind should automatically disqualify her/him

Whatever is going on psychologically is of no concern.

If I’m wrong, would gills disqualify a swimmer? Would surgically added muscle mass disqualify a weightlifter?
it's true! no amount of surgical 'alterations' changes the fact the person was born a male. these women shouldn't even compete. by entering the ring, they are condoning the decision. a full boycott should be in order

PugMom 08-04-2024 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 2355469)
Agreed. Females work their tales off in order to get a college scholarship and than they lose it to something that decides they are really a female in a male body? Insanity
Thank You, so well said :pray:

PugMom 08-04-2024 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2355510)
And you know this to be true how? Based solely on the claims of a Russian organization?



If only biology was that simple, for example.
all you have to do is look @ him. his structure and appearance show male shoulders & waist. then take a good look @ the muscles on this guy, & tell me it's ok to compete with any size woman. it really IS insanity


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