[redwitch]

I remember when I was younger (20s and 30s) and my viewpoint of retirement communities was very negative. While I didn't call the residents Stepfords, I did think of them as a place to go to die. Definitely not something I wanted to do. As I got older (40s), my viewpoint changed a little. Retirement communities became a place to escape from the world. Again, not something I wanted to do. I loved the world and all it had to offer. This was pretty much my viewpoint prior to moving to TV.

I visited a friend here and discovered people didn't hide from the world. They embraced it still! There are as many who travel, visit local sites outside of TV, go back to their original homes to visit friends and families as there are those who never leave TV unless absolutely forced to. We read, keep up on politics, have friends of many diverse backgrounds and ethnicities. I haven't escaped from this beautiful world we live in. Rather, I have found a spot where I feel safe and accepted as I am (getting older, chubbier to fatter, sarcastic but with a good heart) and where I can let my world expand and contract as I need on any given day.

So, I take Mr. Blechman's comments with a large grain of salt. They are appropriate for his age. I'd like to read what he has to say about TV (or its equivalent when he hits his 50s and 60s).

[gfmucci]

Originally Posted by redwitch

So, I take Mr. Blechman's comments with a large grain of salt.* They are appropriate for his age.* I'd like to read what he has to say about TV (or its equivalent when he hits his 50s and 60s).*

So, right now, Mr. Blechman is writing out of ignorance...but in a good way.* Sort of like someone writing something negative [sarcastic, stereotypical, demeaning - pick a word] about Italians [or Irish or Blacks or Jews or Presbyterians] because they haven't been one yet.* "Appropriate for his age" just like racism was appropriate for a southerner in the '50's?* Both reflect prejudice grounded in ignorance. Neither should be excused.

[redwitch]

GF, yes and no. I don't agree with what he wrote but I understand it and I am willing to bet his attitude will change as he ages. No matter, he has the right to write it. I have the right to accept what he says, ignore it or argue it. I hate bigoted remarks and some of his remarks were bigoted. I'd love to wipe ignorance off the face of this earth and there's no question he is at the very least partially ignorant about retirement communities in general and TV in particular. However, that doesn't mean I have the right to stop him saying what he chooses.

About the only point he made that was valid to me was the loss to the community of this wonderful couple. I'm glad they chose TV as their new residence. They will obviously be a great asset here.

I don't think I ever said what he wrote was good just that I understood that some of his comments were made with the arrogance of youth. Some of his comments actually had me gritting my teeth but I'll still defend his right to say them.

[graciegirl]

Redwitch.
You have written the words I couldn't find. Of course our perception of age changes with the age we are. I like to see how other people view things, I guess if I strongly disagree, I try to change their minds but most of the time as I am older I find, it doesn't matter. If it doesn't cause harm, I really believe that most people are going to learn differently and change sooner or later. There are many shades to peoples' perceptions, and I find honesty interesting.

I wonder how my grandchildren will see the place when they come. Probably with the positive attitude given them by their parents. The oldest will begin at Ohio University in Journalism this fall and I can't wait to see what she thinks and says.

The two of them are perfect you see, but most young people have a lot to learn.

[Rokinronda]

AMEN!

[Frangyomory]

Love the article but it did make us sound a bit "white bread" down here. We certainly are not. Thre are several ethnic clubs which have many, many members and I resent the implication that they didn't see many people of color on their visit. Are they coming here because they percieve a lack of "color"??? I certainly hope not. This community is for anyone who wants to retire and love every minute they have left on this earth. There should be no barriers or percieved barriers to anyone.

Just my humble opinion.

[gfmucci]

Originally Posted by redwitch

I don't think I ever said what he wrote was good just that I understood that some of his comments were made with the arrogance of youth.* Some of his comments actually had me gritting my teeth but I'll still defend his right to say them.

Yes, we all have the right to do or say just about anything we please.* But there are consequences with everything we do and say...some consequences are better than others.* And so also, there are varying degrees of bigotry and ignorance.* People have the right to express themselves whether out of ignorance or wisdom.* And we all have the right and obligation to discern (judge, if you will) whether what they say is accurate and kind or misleading and arrogant.

[Sidney Lanier]

You know, I remember when my parents retired and moved to a condo in south Florida (near Fort Lauderdale). My brother and I looked at each other and decided that they'd have no problem at all moving away from us in upstate NY, knowing the potential for visiting, but how would they ever give up on being close by to their family doctor? Wouldn't you know it, after buying, our mother took the sales literature to show to the doctor and his wife--who ended up retiring and buying in the next building! We laughed for a long time. '-)

When our widowed mother turned 80, she announced to us that she was 'nearer than further' and that, after she died, we should consider keeping the condo. My brother and I looked at her and at each other and said (to ourselves and each other, though not to her...) 'Not for me.' At our relatively young ages, we could not see ourselves in that setting. Sadly he died way too young--at age 55 only two years after she had died--but here I am--older--and in TV! No, the condo would definitely not have been my style of living; I haven't been a cliff dweller in more decades than I care to think about. But in truth the concept of 'Florida retirement' looks very different from the perspective of my age now than it did then....

[gfmucci]

What we judge is best for ourselves is one thing, and very appropriate. What we judge is best for others is presumptuous and arrogant. The author was doing the latter.

[Muncle]

A couple of things about the book excerpt really ticked me off. First, and easiest is Blechman's obsession with the belief that we're all running from children, that we want to lock ourselves away from anyone younger than us. Obviously the research trip he made to TV must have been from 9PM on a Sunday to 6AM the next morning. Must not have gotten an opportunity to drive by the Charter grade, middle, and high schools that the community supports financially and personally. Must not have had an opportunity to go by a family pool where kids enjoy our amenities all year long. Must not have talked to anyone about the intragenerational games organized and funded by our recreation division. And definitely must not have had the opportunity to visit any of the multitude of stores in the area where our isolated old timers shop side by side and often work side by side with families from the area.

Secondly, and this will probably :edit: off a few of you, Blechman personifies the attitude of too many New Englanders that anything west of the Hudson is beneath them. We who come from the great flyover lands are used to being denigrated by those from either coast. (Joke later) Somehow if it's Ohio or Illinois, Michigan or Missouri, the Dakotas or, go forbid, Arkansas, it's not worthy of a suave, urbane, sophisticated, just plain superior Californian, New Yorker, or Bostonian. Blechman would have had the same reaction had his friends decided to move to Oberlin, OH or Columbia, MO. Only a proper New England town could have the diversity and culture needed by a civilized person. Notice, the Cotswolds in England were almost acceptable, but Florida???

And frankly, I was ticked off by the low opinion Blechman seems to have of his friends. Today, in the womb of New England, they are wonderful creatures. They are very active in the community. They are leaders. They evidently live life to its fullest. Once they move to TGV, they will evidently have matching lobotomies. There is obviously nothing in which they can be active. There is nowhere they can lead. The old home town had acrimonious politics. Certainly there won't be any of that in Stepford The Villages. Somebody ought to send Blechman a copy of the POA bulletin. And maybe in the same package, include a writeup of Operation Shoebox, a locally created programs that's impacted worldwide. And may a list of courses for the Lifelong Learning Center, and . . and . . and hell, the package can't be that big.

~~~~~~~~~~~
But enough of that. Now my story.

A friend of mine was going to school at Yale. He met and fell in love with a Bostonian girl. She invited him home to meet her parents. Naturally he was nervous. At lunch, the mother asked where his people lived. He explained that he'd grown up in Des Moines and all his family still lived there.

"And where is this 'Des Moines' of which you speak?" asked the grande dame somewhat haughtily.

"Why it is the capital of Iowa" my friend replied.

"Oh," she said. Taking his hand gently in her, she quietly whispered to him, "But darling, here in Boston, we pronounce it Ohio."

[Sidney Lanier]

Originally Posted by gfmucci

What we judge is best for ourselves is one thing, and very appropriate. What we judge is best for others is presumptuous and arrogant. The author was doing the latter.

Couldn't be more perfect, IMHO, not only in relation to this topic but virtually anything!

[redwitch]

Couple of comments/questions. Did Blechman actually visit TV or just get his "facts" secondhand from his friends after their visit? Is this a review of a book, a letter to the editor, a strange editorial? I can't believe it is an article given the lack of facts -- it is a pathetic mass of opinions. GF, if it upsets you this much, maybe you could write a letter to the Journal giving them the facts of TV. To me, it isn't that big of a deal.

I know several Floridians who do not live in TV but think TV is a community of the wealthy. They are surprised when I tell them that the majority are middle class. They're even more surprised when I tell them some survive here strictly on Social Security. Of course, there are those who do not believe me no matter what is said. To me, it is their loss.

And now, dear Muncle, please don't tar all Californians as "suave, urbane, sophisticated, just plain superior." Most Californians I know have their roots in the Midwest and are very proud of those roots. While some are first or second generation Californians, their parents or grandparents are not. I will admit that I do know one or two who are so insecure that they really only acknowledge SF and NYC as being "adequate" cities with any sophistication or culture. The majority of us, however, look at these people as fools at best and as pathetic snobs at worst. So, please don't tar Californians with that brush -- we have enough other brushes that do fit us.

[gfmucci]

I'm not upset.* I just like to write.* It's therapeutic.*

I have reconsidered one of my previous comments...to wit:* "And we all have the right and obligation to discern (judge, if you will) whether what they say is accurate and kind or misleading and arrogant."*

More accurately, "We all have the right, and some of us feel an obligation (feel compelled - including me) to discern (judge, if you will) whether what they say is accurate and kind or misleading and arrogant." I am a living breathing example of why the word "judgemental" is in our lexicon.* But I only use it in a good way. ;D* *

Others of us may prefer to be more passive about things that, if we gave it much thought, just don't seem right.

[gfmucci]

Mr. Blechman has initiated a marketing machine, a little "cottage industry" to help promote his new book, "Liesureville."* Check out the beginnings of his blog site at http://andrewblechman.blogspot.com/* It's beginning to sound like a bit of a crusade against retirement choices and lifestyle communities.* I wonder if he's considered the anti-social attributes of cottages?

Part of his marketing effort is a selection of merchandise he is offering to promote his new brand of bigotry at http://www.cafepress.com/leisureville .* Nothing really offensive - just slightly mocking via the logo (house, cart, house, cart, house, cart, house) - but the potential is there. Actually the graphic is kind of cute.

Mr. Blechman is obviously a big fan of cultural diversity and shows a bewildered disdain toward anyone who breaks out of that mold. He is absolutely a product of his generation, showing astonishment at the old ways of the older folk. But at least he's made an effort to understand. The challenge was obviously compelling since he has taken a chunk of time out of his life to research and write a book.

You also may be interested in providing your thoughts of the book (based on the content of this thread if you haven't read the book yet) at the Amazon.com site here:* http://www.amazon.com/Leisureville-A...9003817&sr=8-1

[fizzbyn]

I found Mr. Blechman's whole article pretty funny, especially the part where he says:
"In particular, baby boomers may be reluctant to embrace communities like The Villages -- the generation that never wanted to grow up might shun places that would expose them as not-young."
I'm a baby boomer. I never grew up. I never want to and never will. I can think of no place on earth better suited to not growing up than TV.