Yes,and yes. Jesus IS the way to reach eternal life. He came to earth to save sinners from hell by dying in our place on the cross so that we can live eternally with Him. I think if people are wondering if there truly is a God, then they need to ask Him to reveal Himself in ways that you can understand. He will answer you through awesome and miraculous ways that are personal with you. I know this to be true as He did this for me when I was seeking Him in my life many yrs ago. He's real and wants to have a personal relationship with you everyday b/c He loves you more than you can ever know! :-) God bless you!

Wonderful response.

IMO, you can ask man everywhere if there is a God and get more of the alleged wisdom and real truth and won't know the difference intellectually.
Why not ask God, did you send Jesus and if so I'd like to know Him...if God does not answer you...you have your answer.

God gave us a brain for a reason. He intended we should use it. It was designed to weigh and consider the deep issues of life. IMO, 'blind' faith does not honor that gift.

If you can outsmart your maker, you're in good company. Not the company I want to be in...
post edited for clarification. A friend offered me a chance to make my assertion more clear..
indeed, we have a brain. By design, faith is not a matter of intellect, or only smarts would get us to God. Faith and intellect can be/often are, at odds. In my case, faith was a conscious decision that intellect could not earn entry to knowledge of divinity. The brain can't go where faith can go.
No intention to say I don't want to be with people who think otherwise...saying I can't trust my intellect more than my knowing. It's another realm.

Company you want to be in
 

...

[QUOTE=tucson;868600]Jesus IS the way to reach eternal life. He came to earth to save sinners from hell by dying in our place on the cross so that we can live eternally with Him.

I would gladly die for your sins if I knew I would come back to life. Bottom line is he, as the story is told, came back to life so he didn't die. AND what sins, I wasn't even born then? How can I or a newborn baby be accused of sins. What if I lived in the Artic or Amazon and never heard of him? Not my fault but you would send me to hell for never hearing about him.
I was married to the preachers daughter until she died at the ripe old age of 36, and he and I had many conversations about the bible. Whenever I asked a question that he couldn't answer then he'd just say "well, you just got to have faith".

[quote=Shimpy;868659]We are all born with original sin via Adam & Eve, who committed their sins in the Garden of Eden, and as a result we (the whole entire population on earth) are born with that "sin nature". As a result we all need a Saviour (Jesus Christ, the Son of God) who came to earth & died in our place on the cross and then was risen from the dead 3 days later. So as we freely believe and freely accept Him as Lord and Saviour of our lives we can enter into the gates of Heaven immediately after we take our last breath. God is supernatural and can speak to the hearts and minds of people who've never even heard the Gospel. He's the great "heart knower", even if you've never heard of Him, He knows when you're searching and seeking Him. There's a scripture that I love and it says. Seek me with all your heart and you WILL find Me. :-) Peace in Christ

I must have been unclear. I am a believer. I don't think we can or should try to outsmart our maker. My point is that we must all learn and understand what we believe for ourselves, not blindly follow a doctrine because someone told us to or because we were born into it.

Saw the movie last night & loved it. Refreshing to have a movie out that actually says the word "Jesus" with respect. Theatre was full of families & lots of teenagers. Let's not get into the negative aspects of what some think was the outcome. If the father made money putting a positive Godly message out there that all could enjoy, I am happy for him. He had the courage to promote a message that illustrated a great diverse community working together through ups & downs. It's about God's intervention when tradgedy strikes & community support through the healing process. I rate it the best so go out & support it. No, you will not hear blasphemy or see illicit scenes; it's not typical Hollywood trash that makes billions polluting the minds of families & kids. We, who are in our 70s, left there feeling hopeful about the future, seeing our MIAMI Regal Theatre full to capacity of all ages..

Great message. Thanks

I did misunderstand your first post. We say the same thing from differing vantages. In your view, if I get you, faith is not a heritage, but a choice made only by volition of the individual.
In my experience, with no birthright of faith, I came to define blind faith differently than you are saying. It was not handed down to me, and so faith is the moment I chose to believe in what I could not prove by logic; therefore trusting in a realm which my mind, however keen, could not see into nor fathom, nor comprehend.

Your life must be very empty life if you believe in nothing. Something tragic will have to happen to make you realize that there is a beyond & a tomorrow that many of us are striving to qualify for constantly. How can you go through life believing that this is it?
"A proud man is always looking down on things and people; and, of course, as long as you are looking down, you cannot see something that is above you.”
― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity. Do yourself a big favor & read the book.

Heaven is for real
 

Saw the movie last night & loved it. Refreshing to have a movie out that actually says the word "Jesus" with respect. Theatre was full of families & lots of teenagers. Let's not get into the negative aspects of what some think was the outcome. If the father made money putting a positive Godly message out there that all could enjoy, I am happy for him. He had the courage to promote a message that illustrated a great diverse community working together through ups & downs. It's about God's intervention when tradgedy strikes & community support through the healing process. I rate it the best so go out & support it. No, you will not hear blasphemy or see illicit scenes; it's not typical Hollywood trash that makes billions polluting the minds of families & kids. We, who are in our 70s, left there feeling hopeful about the future, seeing our MIAMI Regal Theatre full to capacity of all ages..

There are some places in scripture where tragedy causes a person to believe, such as Paul's conversion. Most of the time people became believers because they saw miracles of love when people were healed, fed, raised from the dead, protected from "religious" people who wanted to punish them, and so on.

IMO no intellectual gets converted by threats that God will punish them. The good news is that God is love, and He wants to bridge the gap a brilliant mind can create-- faith is the substance that goes in that gap.

For me, faith makes sense and is logical, based on what I see and understand of the world/nature. I know we all come to it differently, and that is okay. Those who strive are worth knowing.

Saw this today and felt that it relates to this conversation....

Wow, then I lose both ways. I need to do something just in case heii exits. LOL

Peace Be With You
 

Hubris is what drives some people to deny God or something greater than themselves.

Some are caught in the middle of cognitive dissonance vis a vis blind faith

As a general statement most people are spiritual in nature and sense something is grater then themselves

The message sent from this boy and many other with near death experiences is a gift and I am not one to look a gift horse in the mouth.

Clearly technology assisted in bringing these people back from death. We are all products of our DNA and our DNA makes us who we are be it artist or scientist. Is DNA just an evolutionary byproduct of happenstance? or intellectual design? In other words did God provide the technology to assist in bringing back these people? Did He do it to let us know He cares? Or is it just randomness? having no meaning?

If at the moment of my last breath I experience the light shining upon me, I will consider myself fortunate indeed no matter what follows

bible list of people coming back from dead.
Resurrection: Bible Characters Raised from the Dead

Article mentions Jesus as resurrecting too....but everybody knows he didn't give a hoot about laws of nature.

[quote=tucson;868674]
Doesn't sound like a loving god to me. So in your belief, a woman thousands of years ago simply ate an apple and now newborns have to be saved for their sins.....really?..... A newborn baby is the most precious thing in the world and how can you say they will go to hell through no fault of their own? Is there anything more innocent than a new born baby in this world? You have them quilty for just being born. Your God gave you the ability to think and reason and realize that not everything written in a 2000 year old book translated hundreds of times is fact. We were given common sense for a reason.

[quote=Shimpy;869202]I think back then, god was tired from building the earth in 7 days, but when Jesus came and delivered the sermon on the mount, that was the words that God would have said if he had not been exhausted. Jesus is god to me and his teachings are what we all should follow.

[quote=Shimpy;869202]I did not say that a newborn baby will go to hell...if a child dies, they immediately go to heaven, there is an "age of accountability" in which a person knows that there is a God and their conscience speaks to them of sin and salvation through Jesus Christ ... common sense will not give you eternal life, only faith in Christ as Lord and Saviour of your life will...I know God exists and He is more real to me than anything...and also the Bible says I am very blessed when I am mocked for His sake...:-)

[quote=tucson;869220]

The bible is the word of God...How do we know this? Because the bible says it is. As has been said before, the bible would not stand up in a court of law.
I have my opinions based on logic and reason and you have yours based on blind faith from a book written thousands of years ago chisled in stone, transulated hundreds of times. It was written when there was no such thing as science, thus beliefs in rain gods, sun gods, etc. They couldnt explain what was happening because they didn't have the knowledge.
This will be the end of our discussion because you chose to believe what has been preached to you and not listen to reason and I chose to look at science, facts, and logic.
No hard feelings Tucson and I know keeping the faith will keep you comfortable, and I'm happy with that. I have no intention of converting anyone.

I would not attempt to answer where scripture is silent. The sin-guilt of an infant is a distraction for someone who does not want to deal with areas where scripture is clarion-clear: that every one who might hear the gospel finds themselves in the same condition, utterly guilty of having willfully sinned and incapable of mitigating it so that they can stand blameless before a holy God. It's actually quite common for people to resist the idea of "federal headship" when it comes to imputed guilt from Adam, but happily receptive when it comes to imputed righteousness from the new Adam, our adopted head, Christ.

We saw God's Not Dead and plan on seeing Heaven Is For Real. I believe these 'faith' films are as controversial as those that belittle them want them to be. I remember Frank Rich (NY columnist) was stating that Mel Gibson's The Passion of The Christ promoted anti-Semitism (Rich is of the Jewish faith). He was then asked if he had seen the film to which he replied no. That ended the conversation. My point is that it's hard to judge a film until you have seen it....oh, and to those that say ooooo, Mel Gibson, let him who is without sin cast the first stone. Accomplished actor and director in my opinion.

[quote=Shimpy;869238]This post provoked me to find a Bible description of a judge:

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns...And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of the Almighty God.
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
:read: Rev. 19

That's a pretty impressive court of law, wouldn't you say?

I haven't seen heaven, but I feel it's real. I have held my newborn child against my face and knew her. Knew that this person who I had just met I had somehow always known. The miracle of her echoed into something deep inside me that had lived forever. I can't explain heaven, but I know that if the universe is infinite, how did it create itself? I can't defend the tenants of a place after death because I have not died, but I have descended into the dark abyss of despair and hopelessness and found hope again. I have needed to help others and could not do it with money or food or physical work and so I prayed. I needed to pray and praying may have helped. It didn't hurt.


I long for there to be a heaven and thinking there might me one gives me peace. Not totally believing, being a bit skeptical doesn't offend God if he is. He loves me the way I loved my newborn baby.

What a beautiful post. Yes, babies and nature answer many questions for me about God.

I usually don't read threads debating the existence of God or the validity of religion because I become irritated by the rants of the non believers. Gracie, I'm glad I followed this one. Thanks!

I'm glad you posted because it gives me a chance to explain something about this thread. This thread was not intended to be a debate about the existence of God or the validity of religion.

The motivation for this thread was the fact that I heard the boy, from the story, being interviewed on the radio and the interview left me feeling skeptical. In other words, skeptical about the boy's story and the father's ability to sort things out based on what he said. That was my honest opinion, right or wrong.

I think there's some confusion here; there's a difference between faith in God and faith in the the author of the story. For example, whether or not one feels the story is accurate is independent of one's faith in God.

My lack of faith is in the people who tell these types of stories. I don't know them personally so I have no way of knowing whether they are being honest or accurate.

There have been highly respected ministers who have cheated those who believed in them. The one I'm thinking of is Jim Bakker (Remember Jim & Tammy Faye Bakker). They lost their TV ministry after a series of sex and money scandals. As I understand it, many of his followers were defrauded because they had faith in him as a man of God. He cheated his followers out of $158 million.

These discussions, and your post especially gracie, always remind me of one of my favorite quotes, taken from The Sparrow, by Mary Doria Russell. Speaking of a priest in the book, she says...

"He was aware of his agnosticism, and patient with it. Rather than deny the existence of something he couldn't perceive himself, he acknowledged the authenticity of his uncertainty and carried on, praying in the face of his doubt."

I have read of atheists who had near-death experiences. I'm sure that they struggled with the question, was it a dream, or was it "real"? An esoteric question for sure. However, the similarity of stories at a time when disclosures were rare leads one to believe it as "real". Many folks who have near-death experiences don't disclose because of their own confusion as well as their fear of being labeled as crazy.

Many of those who have had a near-death experience have no fear of dying. Their lives and the lives of their family members have had a significant experience that they will never deny. You could never change their beliefs with all your logic and science.

Regarding the return, I heard this story first hand where the father of a one year old was given a choice to return. He then had the image of his son in his mind (God saw this) and was immediately returned to his hospital bed. He held it a secret from 1980 to 2001 even from his wife. After his divorce he discussed it in a church Alpha program. The group leader changed the subject and he rarely spoke of it again. I was fortunate to have his trust.

Excellent post. Thanks for the explanation.

Probably to encourage you to start this thread, start all this great discussion, perhaps raise awareness and hope that there really is a God and a Heaven.

I saw the movie last night and noticed a contradiction. When the boy saw his father's grandfather in heaven, he saw him as a young man. The boy's father thought that was strange so the boy explained that everyone in heaven is young. Then when he saw his sister who had died at child birth, she was about 4 years old. So she got older. She went from 0 to 4 years old. What was the point of that? Why do some get younger in heaven while others get older? Will she keep getting older until she's as old as her great grandfather?