I was a moderator on one truck site, and a member of a few others, and it became a big joke to constantly 'Rick-Roll' someone...with what was being touted as a 'technical' or a 'how to' link. :1rotfl:

ABC News Rick Rolls 4 Million Americans - YouTube

Interesting commentary. Although your segue from rap to art is confusing.

I disagree with your singular viewpoint on art. Guernica - Is a famous piece of artwork. Why is it considered art? Because of the artist? Because of the artistic themes or unique artistic style of the artist? Would it be art if you did not know what the images represented? I believe it is the beauty of all those forms of expression together not of the challenges it creates. The challenge should be of the creator, not to challenge one to interpret it. Think: "The Mona Lisa," "The Starry Night."

Definition google:
art - "the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power."

Re: Your quote: Eminem – Sing for the Moment Lyrics | Genius Lyrics
Poetic? - No doubt about it.
Social Commentary - Absolutely
Artistic - Sure
Art? - Only time will tell.

I have read some VERY interesting comments on this thread but still think I like Night on Bald Mountain better than;


I see you standin' there and know you cool.

You ain't no rapper and you ain't no fool.

You talkin sweet baby and I hear you mama

You ringin' my chimes and makin me warmah





Howm I doin????

Well then I would say you do know what rap is.


I like Night on Bald Mountain. I dislike jazz. I like oldies rock and up to the '90s. I love classical music. I don't like country.


I don't care if I don't know what they are. To each his own.


Here's Mozart done on a banjo. Watch the musician's face. How can you not love how he's into his music. That can be true with any artist in any form of music.
Rondo Alla Turca - Fast Banjo! - Jamie Dupuis - YouTube

Anything is a possibility.

(I just finished a Jonathan Kellerman novel)

You replied too soon! Just listen to it. It'll brighten your day.

Awesome job! :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Excellent link...thanks. :thumbup:

I basically share your music tastes (except I don't care for 'western,' in addition to 'country' :D)...but have come 180 degrees on how I view mainstream rap.

While I wouldn't let my teenage children listen to the 'Gangsta' style with the profanity/misogyny/N-word/violence against LEO's/etc. lyrics around me, long interesting discussions with them...made me look at some rap in a totally different way.

I was once one of those that was 'stuck' on the idea that music had to have a certain beat/rythm/cadence (I admit to being totally untalented with instruments)...for it to actually be 'music.'

What my very bright and articulate children explained to me though, is that good rap actually was more the 'modern folk music' of the young...and discussed all of the issues/problems/situations that we've all went through in becoming adults.

Once that idea settled in, I started listening closer to the lyrics and by golly...there is some real art (which I know a bit about) coming from rappers.

So, I came to the conclusion that it really boils down to how entrenched and inflexible one is in their thoughts/prejudices/views...as to whether they think rap is music.

I also believe that the dislike for most rappers has another very important & ugly component, but since I don't want this post deleted I won't delve into it...but I think most know what I'm talking about. :ohdear:

I still don't choose to listen to rap as my first choice, but my opinion of it has evolved to having an appreciation for the talent it takes...and the reality for many that it describes.

You just need the Gold Grill, a Heavy Gold Link Necklace and

An Impressive Manager! Good Job Homey! I'll be over wit da

contract? Solid? Word?

:pepper2: Love you are your baby mama.

NopE I just like practicing. Lol

Here's the garbage.
 

Well, I was accused of "profiling" with my characterization of rap as being anti-police. What is now called profiling used to be called "good police work." I notice that another poster, who I know has a police background, agrees with me.

Here's a sample of ANTI POLICE rap, much of which you don't hear on radio because it is too filthy to be permitted by the FCC.

2 Pac - Open Fire
2 Pac - Soulja's Story
2 Pac - Violent
50 Cent - Officer Down
The Bost6n - Still FTP
Big L featuring Fat Joe - The Enemy
Blahzay Blahzay - Good Cop Bad Cop
Blue Scholars - Oscar Grant
Body Count - Cop Killer
Bone-thugs-n-harmony - No Surrender
Bone-thugs-n-harmony - Still no Surrender
Boogie Down Productions - Bo! Bo! Bo!
Boogie Down Productions - 30 Cops or More
Boogie Down Productions - Who Protects Us From You?
Brand Nubian - Claimin' I'm A Criminal
CES Cru - Gridlock
Chamillionaire - Ridin' Dirty
China Mac - Buck a Cop
Cypress Hill - Pigs
David Banner - The Greatest Story Ever Told
Dead Prez - Cop Shot
Dead Prez - I Have a Dream Too
Dead Prez- Police State
Dead Prez - Walk Like a Warrior
Eminem - Untouchable
Fabolous featuring Paul Cain & Nate Dogg - Po Po
Geto Boys - Crooked Cop
Game, The - 911 Is A Joke
Hard Knocks - Road To The Precinct
Heems- NYC Cops
Ice Cube- Ghetto Bird
Ice Cube - Who Got The Camera
Ill Bill - How to Kill a Cop
Immortal Technique - The Other White Meat
J-Dilla - **** the Police
Jeru The Damaja- Invasion
Jus Allah - Cop Monopoly
Killer Mike - Don't Die
Knucklehedz- Who Called Da Cops?
KRS-One - Black Cop
KRS One - Sound of Da Police
LL Cool J - Illegal Search
M.O.P. - Hip Hop Cops
Main Source - Just A Friendly Game of Baseball
MC Shan - Time For Us To Defend Ourselves
Mellow Hype - **** The Police
Michael Jackson - They Don't Care About Us
Mobb Deep - Cop Hell
Mr. Lif featuring Metro- Gun Fight
N.W.A - **** tha Police
N.W.A- Sa Prize (**** tha Police part 2)
Nas - Cops Keep Firing
Non Phixion - Criminal
O.C. - Constables
Onyx - **** Da Law
Paris (featuring Conscious Daughters) - Bring It to Ya
Paris - Coffee, Donuts, & Death
Paris - Night of the Long Knives
Paris - Tear **** Up
Pharoahe Monch - Clap
Pharoahe Monch - What Is the Law?
Prince Paul - Men in Blue
Prince Paul featuring Everlast- Men In Blue
Public Enemy - 911 is a Joke
Public Enemy- Get The **** Outta Dodge
Rob Hustle - Call the Cops
Sabac Red - Fight Until the End
Snow - Informer
Trinity - Corrupt
Talib Kweli - The Proud
Young Buck - Don't Need No Help

Here is a list of COP KILLER rap. This is a sample. There is more.

2pac - Open Fire
2pac - Soulja's Story
50 Cent - Officer Down
Bob Marley - I Shot the Sheriff
Bodycount - Cop Killer
Bone Thugs N Harmony - No Surrender
China Mac - Buck a Cop
Constant Flow - Anatomy of a Revolutionary
Dead Prez - Cop Shot
Dead Prez - Walk Like a Warrior
Dead Prez - I Have a Dream Too
Dr. Dre & Snoop Dogg - 187
Geto Boys - Crooked Officer
Gutta the Rebel - Killa Cop
Ill Bill - How To Kill a Cop
John Maus - Cop Killer
Looptroop - Cop Killin'
Paris - Coffee Donuts and Death
Paris - Night of the Long Knives
The Almighty RSO - One in the Chamba

I find that it is a major stretch to call RAP music. In fact I would argue that associating RAP with real music discredits the artistic value of music. Just my opinion for what it's worth.

Yep, a lot of those songs are way over the line, I abhor them...and I would never let my kids listen to that crap.

The 'profiling' part, is you associating ALL rap music...with that putrid stuff.

BUT, have you ever really stopped to think what gave rise to them (mostly LEO profiling) ...in the first place?

Here's a hint, it's the same frustration and feeling of helplessness for simply being black...that gave rise to BLM and kneeling by some NFL players.

Aren't we all glad deep down...that we had the good luck not to be born black?

Because that 'luck,' certainly didn't have anything to do... with us 'earning' that great head-start in life.

I challenge everyone to take less than one minute to watch this (c'mon, it's only 58 seconds)...and then comment on it.

My thoughts as well.


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Rap, profiling, etc.
 

.
.
.
I can only wish that the readers of my posts would learn to read them with the same precision which I put into writing them. I most certainly did not "...associate ALL rap music.....with that putrid stuff."

My words were "most" and "much."

"Most are counter-culture and anti-police. They sometimes call for the murder of police officers."

"Much of it is beyond racy. It is obscene."

----------

ABOUT PROFILING

In that paragon of children's educational TV programs, Sesame Street, they play a game: "One of these things is not like the other." We are taught at a young age the value of rapid evaluation of situations

Transferred to police work this means being alert to something that is inappropriate or out of place. Discernment in this skill can make the difference between life and death.

One classic example of police profiling was when you see four teen-age boys driving around at 2:00AM in a $75,000 car, they might be worthy of a traffic stop and further inquiry.

When a "look out' is broadcast for a White Chevrolet sedan, you don't even glance twice at Black Cadillacs. That's profiling.

Profiling is an effective method of narrowing the search field when looking for a person, place or thing.

The public has been hoodwinked by the specter of "racial profiling," with the canard that it is always wrong to include race as an element of narrowing the search criteria. There are times when race is a valid element of the search. But to include it runs the risk of being painted as a racist.

Sesame Street - One of these things - Circles - YouTube

The life and death calls that officers make every day have been framed as racial profiling. I am also writing with precision. Do you think that possibly there may be a reason for that? Some of the things that we have seen in the last year or so on the news have been terribly wrong against people of color and against police. Unexcusable really. Do we know the reason either one acted the way they did? We can guess. The horse is out of the barn already. You can't put the Genie back in the bottle.

I explained to our three boys why listening to the music that was listed was not good for them as a person and that those thoughts creep into your mind and it is sometimes the seed that gets you on the wrong route in life. I'm not going to pretend that that constant head beating of rules and suggestions got them to this point but when I hear them starting to train their children with the same thought process then I know it worked.

Nobody can even think they have walked in an Officers shoes. We, including the lady in the video, don't have a clue about the amount of guts it takes for law enforcement to keep us safe while free speech allows these songs, kneeling, and worse things to come.

I'm with the people I call when I need help. They deserve my support. They earn it each day. Perfect post-Mr. Carl.

I like all music but I better be careful what I'm tapping my toe too. It may be one of these bad songs. I truly can't understand the lyrics.

And even after the attempted lecture on broad statements, you use the word...ALWAYS. :oops:

Your attempts at obfuscation and misdirection are eviscerated...by an example that has happened right here on TOTV.

That being the time when a claimed LEO member here, posted in the politics forum (thinking their user name was hidden...it wasn't) referring to black children as *iglets. :grumpy:

In spite of your attempted misdirection otherwise, everyone knows that if a 'look out' is broadcast for 3 black teenagers thought to have committed a crime, looking for only black teenagers...is NOT profiling.

What you've tried...is called a 'red herring.'

Profiling, for no other reason than skin color...IS a reality.

Driving while black - Wikipedia


Even for celebrities.

Chris Rock, Isaiah Washington, and Racial Profiling: Why Black People Shouldn’t Have to ‘Adapt’


The more people try to deny, or excuse, its existence...means that it will just continue. :ohdear:

"But since I'm a white male, why should I even worry about it...right?"

BECAUSE, I'm dumb enough to still believe that justice should be blind...including due to color/race/ethnicity/religion/etc.

Yes, from time to time I have been so glad to be born white, but not only for me, for my two sons as well. I cannot imagine what it must be like to send your kids to school or out to play every day and wonder if you will ever see them again.

I can remember my husband coming home from work one day and saying that such and such a Engineer is brilliant and got his degree from MIT and ending with "and he is black". Can't you just say "he is a brilliant engineer".

Why, in the old movies, did the bad cowboy wear a black hat and the good cowboy wear a white hat?

Why is the devil always portrayed in black and the angels in white robes?

Even in the old masters paintings evil is portrayed as black and good is portrayed as white.

Face it people we have been stereotyping good and evil as black and white since the beginning of time.

My Father was middle aged when I was born, and I adored him, he was the quietest gentle man you could wish to meet, but I remember that if I painted my finger nails bright red he would call them "jungle women's claws" ............. where did that come from?

Unfortunately it is a fact of life and I really don't think it will change.

Rap can best be appreciated if played from a car stereo on max volume with windows down while pumping gas at a service station.

And with speakers that can' handle the bass. [emoji16]

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Profiling anyone by any criteria, whether racial, country of orgin, religion is so wrong and those who proclaim that they are for law and order cannot be so if they profile in any case.

"“Every time you read into something you miss the soul, while searching for the motive.”
― Shannon L. Alder"

I dislike Rap in all forms actually, and the reason there is much to choose from in music genre is because we are a world and country of folks, NOT CLONED, but of individuals, and while I do not like it, I respect those that do. I reserve the right to exclude those lyrics that are offensive but I also feel that way about any genre, including broadway, etc.

So many of those demeaned rappers are now upstanding VERY RICH and VERY INFLUENTIAL in todays world, applauded by many who oppose the very music that launched them.

Carl, just curious, is that a personal list that you compiled alphabetically? [emoji6]

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We sound very much like out fathers commenting on Elvis, The Beatles, and Led Zeppelin 50 years ago.

Rappers present their message, whether you agree with it or not, with a strong beat. It's music. Just not your music.

Rap from the 30's

Preacher's Delight- 1st First Rap Song - YouTube

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Not Carl’s lists. Copied from Rapgenius.com, a music company site that was shut down in 2014 when the company changed its name to Genius and began recording other music genres. Credit is always a nice thing to give.

Most, if not all, of the list is pretty old. Tupac was murdered in 1996. NWA is long gone and some of its members are now totally mainstream. I will never condone the murder of police officers but I certainly understand the rage, fear and frustration these rappers are talking about.

Rap today focuses more on the social issues than murder as a solution to those issues. Like most music, rap grows over time or dies out.

:BigApplause:...:BigApplause:

That "crap" as you call it is very close to the seat of power in the USA, along with very rich.

I’m not interested in the men, but South Pacfic and the many other tunes written by Rodgers and Hammerstein are timeless. There’s nothing like the great American Songbook in my opinion. I’m stuck in a time warp and have no use for Rap or Hip-Hop

I grew up with the Beatles, Stones and The Who, at least those tunes had melody and harmony. Not sure I can find a melody in hip hop or rap.

Rap isn’t music and to say it is insults every musician and singer living or dead. It promotes violence and disrespects women. Unfortunately it won’t go away. But fortunately you can turn it off.

Did you notice the music wasn't from the 30's, it's was Rapper's Delight by the Sugar Hill Gang from 1980. I know this stuff because I sold records for 30 years, not that I liked it. That's the first commercially viable rap song I ever knew or heard of, Rapper's Delight.

After that, rap died down until, we can thank Aerosmith for this. Aerosmith was dropped by their original label CBS they put out a couple of lackluster albums on Geffen. Then with advent of MTV, they rehashed a 1975 hit of theirs, 'Walk this Way' and joined up with Run DMC and made a new version with video. Aerosmith was now relevant again.

Then rap kind of cruised along, the white audience was still listening to rock. Then some white guy named Robert Van Winkle came out as Vanilla Ice and released the single Ice Ice Baby with video. Now rap was selling to the white audience, of course he stole his melody from David Bowie/Freddie Mercury's tune "Under Pressure". They later sued and Ice had to pay them $7 million dollars. Then came a funny looking fat black guy named Sir-Mix-Alot with the tune "I like Big Butts", now rap was also funny, as if Vanilla Ice wasn't funny enough.

The early 90's brought what's called gangster rap, and then grunge knocked hair bands out, so we had gangster rap and grunge, not much to choose from. That's where we stand now, probably the most popular rapper is another white guy, name MM or spelled Enimen. Which are his initials for Marshall Mathers.

I did get some good news the other day, Jay-Z has turned down the NFL's offer to do the Super Bowl halftime show. For those of us who still watch the NFL, that is good news.

I keep reading posters saying how our fathers hated Elvis, my dad was the biggest Elvis fan there was, and if was still alive he would be 90. We went to every Elvis movie that came out, watched every TV appearance and once drove 60 miles to see Elvis at Weekie Wachee Springs in '62. So not all of our parents were behind the times.

:BigApplause::BigApplause::BigApplause:

In ANY case?
 

In ANY case? Are you sure?

Let's take a scenario. You are a deputy sheriff assigned to work in a rural area. You receive a radio dispatch to go to the Zion AME (Black) Church which has just been firebombed during services.

When you arrive you observe that the county fire department has brought the fire under control. There is a crowd around the church, composed mainly of well dressed Black people who were probably attending services. (Oops. Profiling.) There are two or three clusters of three to six White people also observing the fire. They were probably attracted by the smoke from the fire. (Oops. Profiling.)

Among the White people is a small group of three White men dressed in white tee shirts and blue jeans, all of whom have shaved heads. Since the fire is nearly put out, the crowd is breaking up and people are starting to wander away. You have only moments to stop, identify, and question people about the firebombing.

Who do you single out for immediate interview?

If you decided on the three possible "skinheads" then you are a profiler. (Gasp.)

If you failed to start with them, find some other line of work. You will never make it as a police officer.

crap!

8 Mile (2002) - Rotten Tomatoes

Really liked the rap music in this 2002 movie. I do not listen to much rap music though unless it is on some dance competition show. Those have many different kinds of music especially those programs that highlight largely unknown dancers.

Not sure if your comments in post 72 were aimed at me, but I was not replying to you, nor questioning you, nor disagreeing with you. My reply was to another poster and not you.

Yes, I am sure in my heart and soul that if you judge someone based on skin color, religion etc you vanity possibly be someone for law and order.

Your example is from some police protocol and I was not aware that was the subject., and was not what I was referring to or even considering.

I was under the impression most of us are not faced with a police or law enforcement decision, simply living our lives.

And I still feel in living our lives if we are judging others based on these superficial things, we cannot support law and order. It does not make sense.

All The police practice you want to throw out does not matter. Most of us are simply living our life.....that is not our responsibility, and maybe you see color as a guide...I choose not to live my life judging people on anything except their morals and behavior.

Police make judgements based on things that those who do not carry that responsibility need not. I think we live our lies and judge others NOT based on police protocol.

I don't know anything about rappers being killed. You have a more interesting question. Is rap a valid art form?

Full Disclosure: I have been away from TOTV for awhile and I am giving only a little bit of time to catch up. I'm not going to read the other responses.

To me rap is like Gilbert and Sullivan. There is a predictable beat and the words rhyme. The beats in rap can be far more complicated. It's like listening to that Blue something or other drum concert,

Watch this and see if you can find the beauty and brilliance in the medium.

"One Last Time" - Hamilton At The White House #ObamaLegacy - YouTube

Old successful white men discussing rap music doesn’t work, never will.


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Good, common sense post...and good to see you back. :thumbup:


Looking forward to your usual awesome sense of humor...in the various other threads. :D

Yep. :D


Kinda like women talking about the problems...of not standing close enough to the urinal. :1rotfl: