thank you for sharing & speaking your own mind-it's a rare thing these days. whether we agree or not, it's the free & open discussion that leads to ideas & peaceful solutions.

We can look back 75 years to Orson Wells infamous “War of the Worlds” Radio Broadcast to see how easy it is to manipulate the American public. Today it is infinitely easier since people believe anything they see online.

Perhaps you forgot this from the Wall Street Journal: Bloomberg Bankrolls a Social-Media Army to Push Message ...

Or this from Reuters: Paid social media influencers dip toes in U.S. 2020 election ...

The url's are not showing up in my post here but you can search them.

Again, I AGREE with you on the dangers of social media. I am simply pointing out that the pay for posting is not one sided.

SECRETLY And DISINFORMATION ie., wrong information and lies.on purpose
From a group founded on moral conduct ?

Oh yes, all use social media but denying that you are being influence and steered is foolhardy

Yep, I am used to being disagreed with as long as it is based on facts and truths. We seem to have lost the art of discussing issues and simply lobbing personal bombs.

I love good debate, defined as factual, on issue and with respect for the one I disagree with.

I engage on line a bit with folks, since my living was working for a party nationally, and I understand what respect is. Some posters, here and otherwise, have no idea of what they are talking about and simply mouth what someone tells them to say.

My problem with social media, well one of them, is that they feed these lazy people with one track minds with crazy stuff, and frankly those folks do not even care about the country.....it is all about.....I gotta be a winner....not the country needs to win.

History has shown how that ends up and I take pride in speaking my mind because I have served this country in a number of ways, and love it, but detest that we are rapidly becoming the laughing stock of the world.

I get in trouble by speaking my mind a lot, but how these folks can look at us and straight out lie and know it, is not something my parents ever taught me or would allow, and my wonder is those in my country who are allowing it to go on.

What is telling is that my comments here...straightforward, patriotic, honest will garner many complaints

It is obvious we have a failure to communicate here. I'm done with this thread since you insist on turning everything into a personal attack.

Yep sure did. Just helping out. You forgot to add the main reason for all of the posts concerning this...

.
“SECRETLY And DISINFORMATION ie., wrong information and lies.on purpose
From a group founded on moral conduct ?”

You are welcome......that oft repeated phrase is the game changer.

Definition of communicate...”share or exchange information, news, or ideas.”

You never did that....you ignored and just keep repeating something everyone knew and ignored the actual story itself

No matter what side of the spectrum you are on, this ongoing struggle should be of import to you.


Since 2017, Facebook has removed over 100 networks that engaged in coordinated inauthentic behavior, like the fake Russian news organization Peace Data. Facebook says it now works with 70 different third-party fact-checking partners and has greatly increased its ad transparency.

Many people turn to Facebook for news, with almost 70% of adults in the United States using the platform in 2019, according to Pew Research Center. This large userbase means Facebook has a large effect on our society and our democracy. That was made evident in the 2016 presidential election.


2020 Presidential Election: Facebook and information manipulation
--------------------

YOUTUBE continues to fight the same battle. They are now adding human moderators because of the "Amid widespread anti-racism" content
"
"YouTube reverts to human moderators in fight against misinformation"

Tried to link to the article but only for subscribers.

Point is at least we begin to see effort.

...

You are very naive
Things You Need to Know About Facebook and Mass Manipulation | Hacker Noon

I think that recruiting young people in a morals based group, and then paying them to go on line and deliberately tell lies and spread rumors or false conspiracy theories is wrong.

You obviously think it is fine, or are trying to change the subject of the thread or distort what I have been saying.

Naïveté is oft times a choice people make. Not knowing becomes the fall back position.

Evidently, there are many psychological biases here on this thread on display. . . study some basic personality types, and one can classify personality types by posts and responses. There is also the survival bias on perfect display of how the human is wired to emphasis fear over pleasure as a survival technique. Having worked with data enough, performing predictive analytics, and having talked with Cambridge Analytica employees, who worked with the Facebook data during the trump campaign, yes, there is manipulation in information for even such things as A/B testing. And if you don't study intl events closely enough, you won't understand chinese and russian influences by information / disinformation is the easier way to take down a country than by force

If you have never heard of A/B testing in big data and marketing, you have no idea that you are being tested, tracked, and recorded for marketing of any type, whether products or information.

I see A/B testing on many web sites, so if you know for what to look, you can see it.

If you ever compare predictive analysis of the stock market with Bloomberg/CNBC/Reuters/ etc analysis of daily analysis, they are just winging it. If you don't know how to use options to create a gamma squeeze, you will believe what the newspaper or news channel will tell you. if you don't understand rotation or how to look for it, you will believe the daily market narratives.

So, for the posters who believe that they can discern facts from various news sources, unless you were there or part of the news, this whole discussion creates such cognitive dissonance that you use anchoring bias of the 60's and 70's to maintain your beliefs. Uou nless you were there, you really can't discern the facts as happened because you are evaluating all second hand information, which by definition, has biases built in. And if you think you have enough sources to create facts, you really are just reinforcing own beliefs to avoid cognitive dissonances. there are posters on here who give first hand factual statements, which conflict with their beliefs, and that information is totally ignored. that my friends is anchoring bias prevention of cognitive dissonance confusion. . . or slight variations of many other emotional biases.

if you don't understand this: "There is no factual reality, there is only individual perception", you are just looking for a re-inforcing bias echo chamber, which is what all social media platforms have as a social unintended consequence.

good luck all, but do realize that whether you agree or not, whether you understand how or not, you are being tracked, classified, and then attempted to be persuaded by many different sources, and so subtly that you will never notice, except with a few exceptions. and i say this as i have professional contacts who describe how they do it.


sportsguy

Thanks for this post. I could never explain it as you have, but have done my fair share of reading on this AND the issues you mention.

I think that tab of "naive" fits. Outside (and inside) influences have now been able to "play" us ( my word..not scientific) and then have the "played" say no way.

Twitter serves as an example. So many who just plain make things up on there and others just accept it as fact.

You said I did WHAT? Or thought WHAT?

HUH???

Ever heard of NLP? would you notice if someone talked using NLP? If not, you won't notice how you are spoken to for persuasion / manipulative purposes. Many cult type leaders speak in that style

sports guy

I think you missed the point,
 

one politics are determined by your beliefs, if what information you receive is slanted you will be so guided to that conclusion, denigrating, disparaging critical opinions will steer you away, ones political views are the end result not the start

Do you understand how mediums who talk with the dead souls uses language to create believers? Do you know what a seduction bitch shield is? these are all common emotional manipulation behaviors to make you believe something the person is saying, and is not true

its all manipulation and these are in person techniques, so there is no reality, there is just your perception of one

sportsguy

While the impetus for the doc which is the subject of the thread is complicated but the doc n Netflix made it understandabl. Backed by commentary by those who actually operate the platforms made it much easier for a dumb guy like me.

True. My point in this thread is that the Internet now has expanded information portals. Gone are the days of the 6 PM newscasts and reading newspapers. Simpler time for sure.

Folks, with the advent of the internet, have found ways to spread false information, continue conspiracy theories and basically control thought process, seemingly with no notice.

That scares me, especially when used over and above making money...now influencing the future of our country.

Matters not whether you lean left or right, this should scare everyone. Especially, in my opinion, if you refuse to acknowledge that you can, and probably are, be influenced online,

Lying has always been something I abhor, now it is becoming a science.

"the creepy line" was the first "documentary" on being manipulated that I was aware of and that goes to the people who manage the search engines, directing your views

Here is a review from a trusted entity, The New York Times.

However they still have a jab at the end about capitalism. Nothing is without a slant.

‘The Social Dilemma’ Review: Unplug and Run - The New York Times

“Everyone should watch The Social Dilemma documentary on Netflix and then make the necessary changes,” one Twitter user wrote. “Tonight I deleted Facebook and turned off notifications from Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn. It’s time to take back control of our minds.”

Another Twitter user said: “Just watched this and immediately deleted #Facebook and #Instagram. A must watch to understand the manipulation.”

Netflix'''s The Social Dilemma sees people to delete Facebook, Instagram

I realize I am beating this to death, but the hateful, absolutely garbage that is being distributed is just wrong

I agree with you but think that people in this generation do not understand the technology and how easy it is to use for criminal activity. The content looks like it comes from friends or from legitimate sites and so they believe it. The quizzes look innocent and fun so how can they be scams? I am sure that none of them have used the security features and are unknowingly sharing not only their information but that of their friends not only in the US but globally.

There was an article in the WALL STREET JOURNAL about one of the political party's use of FACEBOOK data to geofence areas of protest/riots to recruit new voters and campaign workers (POLITICAL GROUPS ARE COLLECTING DEMONSTRATORS' DATA June 14, 2020). This seems like one of the least despicable uses of data mining but were you aware of this? Is this news or "fake news"? How can you know?

Are you aware of how overwhelmed we are with psychological cues to form our opinions by the purchasers of that data? Do you know how vast and personal the data on you is? Including pictures and video? The camera and microphone on your cellphone can be accessed remotely. How about your children's data? Whether they are 50 years old or 15? Have you noticed how many commercials there are on "free" streaming TV channels? When you bought a newspaper no one knew your data but your ISP sells your data and can't be stopped from collecting it with a VPN.

Now that you are aware of these issues how many of your friends, family and neighbors are aware? Most importantly, what can you do to protect your anonymity other than live the life of a hermit on a mountaintop?

Everything has risk and people are not going to live the life of a hermit on a mountaintop but people need to stop being so naive and think before they post or believe anything they see online. No one should be sharing all of their personal information online and anything on Facebook that says please like or share with everyone should raise a red flag. This was posted by the police dept.

Yep, my personal fear is the BELIEVING what they read.

I read so many posts just on this forum which has a basis of a corrupt rumor, conspiracy or out right lie.

This, it appears, is how folks make decisions that affect my country. That makes it very personal. I told an ex employee about a year ago on the phone that he "better not come to me when it all explodes because it will"

DISINfORMATION is so rampant it is scary, from so many places that we did not have it in the past I might add.

I will try to be short.
This is probably the single-most important thing in our time.

1. Older people are super gullible because they are honest and believe others to be honest (My dad was on the Internet only one day and caused us 1 year of trying to get back to normal. We took his credit cards and destroyed his computer.)

2. Younger generation is mostly educated by Social Media. They are extremely ignorant but believe they know everything. (I sent my brothers grandson a large sum of money to buy a car for college, he instead covered his body with tattoos.)

3. Social Media was invented and is run by the younger generation.

4. Idealism is wanting perfect environment, everybody doing drugs if they want, no borders, free abortions, free health care, free food, free housing, free schooling, etc. , etc.

5. Practical thinking is "Life is not fair" deal with it.

There is Civil War of Idealism(youngers) vs Practical Thinkers(olders).

Eventually youngers will take over. Just a question of if the olders get get to hang on a little longer.

nothing scientific but on this forum, most users are not "youngers" and they pretty much are fans of the Youtube and Facebook types for news, true or not. When you see an almost word for word statement from on of the highly viewed and known sites that promulgate this trash, you pretty much know.

Not youngers at all I am afraid

“ I sent my brothers grandson a large sum of money to buy a car for college, he instead covered his body with tattoos.”
Poor choice in life BLAME YOURSELF!

Categorically untrue. What you KNOW of social media was founded by and is run by a younger generation. But that just means you were either completely unaware of the world around you, or you have forgotten, everything that happened before the year 2000.

The first public BBS was founded in 1978 by Ward Christiansen, who is now 74 years old. He worked for IBM from the late 1960's until he retired as a tech sales specialist in 2012. That would be the person that the salespeople went to when THEY had tech issues.

I joined the BBS system in 1990 when I had my first dial-up modem, and I've been social networking on the internet ever since. I was a file librarian and regularly featured chat host on Prodigy, and hung out in chat rooms on AOL. I still use what people might remember as the Netscape browser from the first days of the WWW, now known as the SeaMonkey Suite, in addition to Chrome and MS Edge. I used to hang out in IRC channels back in the day (it still exists and is still used), and IRC was created in 1988 by a guy who was born in 1967. That means he's in his 50's, just barely out of the boomer generation and into GenX.

I'm almost 60. My dad introduced me to the BBS system, and he's currently 84.

I hate when seniors use the excuse of being of the older generation to get out of understanding the internet, or social media. It is a choice to reject knowledge, it isn't age. The guy who built the first computer is older than most of you. Be honest with yourselves and admit that you just never were interested in learning it til recently. And stop using your age as an excuse to not know.

Enjoyed your post.

I am 81, so quite a bit older than you, but I get tired of my generation blaming others all the time. You reap what you sow, whether personally, your government or anything in life. Reading posts on here condemning young folks while enduring lying and enabling such is so frustrating. Not even a blink when we hear the REAL heroes demeaned....those buried in Normandy really brought me to tears. Not the first time with real heroes.

No, my generation has left a lot of us down and frankly I think young people can actually do a better job.

And before I read posts saying things, which again is predictable on here.......We are speaking of generations , not specific people who choose to demonstrate and/or riot. Those who riot and destroy are such a very minute minority used as an excuse by older folks like me, to justify and find some fault.

Thanks for a great post.....would it not be wonderful, if we just stopped making generalizations about people ?

Rejecting knowledge is what has brought us to this state. Truth has no value any longer.

Sorry, not meaning to hijack but you are on to the truth here...as painful as it is for some to hear.

Facebook warned on Monday that it would block users and news organizations in Australia from sharing local and international news stories on its social network and Instagram if the country passed a proposed code of conduct aimed at curbing the power of Facebook and Google.

This from NY Times Australia

Nteresting how the world now works

It's REALLY clear that -you- don't know much about Facebook. All networks give regular LIVE updates on all sorts of things, from weather emergencies to political rallies, and everything inbetween.

I watched an inauguration of an elected official on Facebook when I was living in CT, while it was happening live. It was covered by the local news stations and livestreamed.

Livestreaming is a thing. It means you're watching something while it is happening. And ALL major networks provide livestreaming to one extent or another on Facebook.

That is where I get a lot of my news. From livestreaming.

Whoops! So much for "no news on FB". It's all over FB, more than I want to see!

All of the Big Tech companies claim their primary mission is to change the world for the better. They’ve certainly fulfilled half of this goal. Consider some of the ways the world has changed since the rise of Silicon Valley:

According to the CDC, the youth suicide rate in this country increased by 56% between 2007 and 2017.
Americans are more politically divided than ever. We’re currently witnessing levels of social unrest not seen since the ‘60s (pick your century — 1960s or 1860s).
Income inequality has never been higher.
In Myanmar, military personnel used Facebook to incite genocide against ethnic minorities.
Jeff Orlowski’s new documentary The Social Dilemma offers a terrifying peak behind the Silicon curtain. Despite some corny dramatizations, the film features powerful interviews with Big Tech defectors who expose the industry’s only real objective: manipulating human behavior for profit.

Mark Zuckerberg's Pro-Democracy Claims Are a Farce - InsideHook

To me, while I do understand the use to stay in touch, but it's a dangerous place to call "home".

Seems to me we are abandoning truth, accepting lies and any conspiracy theory that feeds what we want.

A state GOP senator in Pennsylvania once told me that "democracy is hard work". Part of that is first caring about the truth, learning how to recognize it, keep searching for it.

I learned early that if I wanted a government that I was proud of, I needed to work at it.

It seems to me, and this is just my opinion, that until something happens to wake us up, we will continue to accept untruths and conspiracy theories because it is easier than caring.

That also reminds me of another phrase that I was not around to hear first hand by Jefferson..."The government you elect is government you deserve.''" nor this similar "Joseph de Maistre: ""Every country has the government it deserves""

We seem to get comfort now from being against things instead of being for something. Opens the door for manipulation

Sorry...I just love my country a lot

Correlation doesn't equal causation, Bucco, you know this.

According to the CDC, the youth suicide rate in this country increased by 56% between 2007 and 2017.
Social media predates the increase of the suicide rate by a decade. Facebook founded in 2004. MySpace 2003. Twitter, 2006. Social media certainly has contributed to the suicide rate, but it is not the singular cause of the increase. Remember 2007 was the year the Great Recession began. Millions of families went from prosperity to poverty overnight, lost their homes, their savings. Divorce rates went up as well, as a result. Social media didn't cause this. Corrupt bankers caused this. And that was a HUGE contributing factor to the increase in suicide rates in kids, who had to grow up in the midst of it all.

Americans are more politically divided than ever. We’re currently witnessing levels of social unrest not seen since the ‘60s (pick your century — 1960s or 1860s). And yet - Social media didn't exist in the 1960's or 1860's. They didn't have social media to propel their civil unrest. The difference between then and now is - now it happens instantaneously. Previously they had to take time to plan.


Income inequality has never been higher. Has it been lower? Are you able to point to a time when income inequality was lower, and say "yup - that's because there was no social media"? Or were there other reasons why it was lower (if it ever was lower)?

In Myanmar, military personnel used Facebook to incite genocide against ethnic minorities. That is an actual causation. So point taken on that one item, specifically.

Jeff Orlowski’s new documentary The Social Dilemma ... I haven't seen it, and don't have a Netflix account so I can't see it even if I wanted to, presently.

But there's no doubt in my mind, at all, that social media IS used to manipulate people's thinking. Thing is, so is ALL media. Why do you think there are 400,000 different brands of cereal? Why do you think most of them sell so well? What we call social media manipulation now, we used to call public relations then. Convincing people to your way of thinking, or to buy your product, or to believe your truth, or accept your lies - is EVERYTHING you see on TV that isn't livestreaming. If you aren't watching it happen live, you are being manipulated.

And - even if you ARE watching it live - the camera is manipulating you by making you see it from that very specific perspective, that angle, that lighting, that lens, that text scrolling across the bottom of the screen.

All media is manipulation of some kind or another. Social media has become a much more efficient vehicle for it, because it can be created in an instant and reach hundreds of millions of people at the same time, 24/7.

But no, social media manipulation is nothing new, and no one should be surprised by it. We learned how to manipulate our readers when I was a student of journalism in college, in the 1970's.

Social media is just much easier to exploit and reaches a much greater audience than ever before.