[EdV]

Originally Posted by The Great Fumar

'property owners own the courses and rec centers , the developer doesn't....

Fumar, have you been forgetting to wash your vegetables again?

[Taj44]

Originally Posted by Advogado

We shouldn't get caught up in the neatness of this place, turn off our brains, and not look at what is going on underneath the surface-- if we want this place to remain a neat retirement spot.

Great advice.

[The Great Fumar]

Originally Posted by EdVinMass

Fumar, have you been forgetting to wash your vegetables again?

You really should get out more , Stonecrest is clouding your comprehension..........

[UpNorth]

Originally Posted by The Great Fumar

Many years ago in a board meeting I was told " John, if your going to eavesdrop, pay attention " and I might pass on this piece of advice to some of these posters.

We here north of 466 already own the our executive courses , our rec centers , swimming pools and tennis courts and as for the "FREE FOR LIFE ADD ON TV" I heard it again just 3 days ago on national TV......So lets try to keep our criticisms accurate about the neatest retirement spot known to man.........I say again ,
.... IF YOUR GOING TO EAVESDROP , PAY ATTENTION......

Golf front owner ....fumar...

Yes, they will probably honor the "Free Golf For Life" in the future, once they add another $50 to the monthly anemnity fee...

[stjames]

Yes, EdVnMass has it right with a direct quote from the covenants and restrictions all buyers sign. The amenities will never be owned by our CDDs.
They are owned by the VCCDD or what is the Morse family.
The clubhouses and pools are maintained very well, there is Free 9 hole golf and the use of these facilities is certainly worth the amenity fee ea. month.
But don't forget that the amenity fee goes up ea. yr. based on the CPI index and the likelyhood of 6-10% inflation within 2-3 yrs. is very high. Don't forget that the percentage of increase is based on the previous year's fees. Therefore, a compounding effect occurs which will drive amenity fees up much faster than many realize.

Moreover, the biggest concern is really about the level of maintenance
in the future. It's great now.

(1) But what leverage, legal or otherwise do the residents have to demand that a high level of maintenance continues.

(2) What if VCCDD decides to close some of the clubhouses because they
say that the amenity fees will not support all the amenities?

(3) What reaction would Village residents have if the facilities were opened to the public for a fee?

If any or all of these situations developed many resiedents would want
to stop paying their amenity fees however don't forget that part of the purchase agreement all residents signed that states that the VCCDD, the
corporation/Morse family (at least one of these entities) have a
"FIRST LEIN" on your home. Thank you very much for your home!!!!!!

If any of these situations developed above I would think that the great
majority of owners would end up still paying their amenity fee despite
the downward trend of ambience of The Villages.

Also, keep in mind that Morse is being investigated by the IRS for an
abuse, at least, of the sale of muni-bonds to build the amenities. The regional office of the IRS has instructed Morse to sell the munis, pay back taxes of at least 15million and to acquire new bonds to pay for the amenities
and to not float any more munis. Morse has appealed this finding and as
many know this stand-off has been going on for one and half years.
However, if the IRS wins with its original ruling, stated above, where would
Morse find the money to acquire new bonds, much less would the sale
of the existing munis be at a low price, given the muni-market current
difficulties.

Many that read this post will just say: "Speculation! Speculation!"
But these are really serious questions about the future of The Villages.
So I leave you with two questions that I hope will draw some responses.
I don't know the answers to these two questions, so I'm hoping to hear
if there is any recourse The Village residents would have or is the
answer simply: "NONE" - OUT OF LUCK!. I know that there are some former
lawyers that live in The Villages and others with some expertise in these
areas. Hopefully, they will respond also. Please ask others to read this
post. "The wisdom of many is always superior to the wisdom of a few"

(1) What legal or other methods of leverage do The Village residents have
available to them currently to force a high level of maintenance if
that maintenance level declines?

(2) What legal or other methods of leverage do The Village residents have
to prevent one or more clubhouses/pools from being closed if the VCCDD
runs into financial difficulty?

Thanks for reading this post and would greatly
appreciate any replies.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by stjames

Yes, EdVnMass has it right with a direct quote from the covenants and restrictions all buyers sign. The amenities will never be owned by our CDDs.
They are owned by the VCCDD or what is the Morse family.
The clubhouses and pools are maintained very well, there is Free 9 hole golf and the use of these facilities is certainly worth the amenity fee ea. month.
But don't forget that the amenity fee goes up ea. yr. based on the CPI index and the likelyhood of 6-10% inflation within 2-3 yrs. is very high. Don't forget that the percentage of increase is based on the previous year's fees. Therefore, a compounding effect occurs which will drive amenity fees up much faster than many realize.

Moreover, the biggest concern is really about the level of maintenance
in the future. It's great now.

(1) But what leverage, legal or otherwise do the residents have to demand that a high level of maintenance continues.

(2) What if VCCDD decides to close some of the clubhouses because they
say that the amenity fees will not support all the amenities?

(3) What reaction would Village residents have if the facilities were opened to the public for a fee?

If any or all of these situations developed many resiedents would want
to stop paying their amenity fees however don't forget that part of the purchase agreement all residents signed that states that the VCCDD, the
corporation/Morse family (at least one of these entities) have a
"FIRST LEIN" on your home. Thank you very much for your home!!!!!!

If any of these situations developed above I would think that the great
majority of owners would end up still paying their amenity fee despite
the downward trend of ambience of The Villages.

Also, keep in mind that Morse is being investigated by the IRS for an
abuse, at least, of the sale of muni-bonds to build the amenities. The regional office of the IRS has instructed Morse to sell the munis, pay back taxes of at least 15million and to acquire new bonds to pay for the amenities
and to not float any more munis. Morse has appealed this finding and as
many know this stand-off has been going on for one and half years.
However, if the IRS wins with its original ruling, stated above, where would
Morse find the money to acquire new bonds, much less would the sale
of the existing munis be at a low price, given the muni-market current
difficulties.

Many that read this post will just say: "Speculation! Speculation!"
But these are really serious questions about the future of The Villages.
So I leave you with two questions that I hope will draw some responses.
I don't know the answers to these two questions, so I'm hoping to hear
if there is any recourse The Village residents would have or is the
answer simply: "NONE" - OUT OF LUCK!. I know that there are some former
lawyers that live in The Villages and others with some expertise in these
areas. Hopefully, they will respond also. Please ask others to read this
post. "The wisdom of many is always superior to the wisdom of a few"

(1) What legal or other methods of leverage do The Village residents have
available to them currently to force a high level of maintenance if
that maintenance level declines?

(2) What legal or other methods of leverage do The Village residents have
to prevent one or more clubhouses/pools from being closed if the VCCDD
runs into financial difficulty?

Thanks for reading this post and would greatly
appreciate any replies.

WELL...in about 20 years I would guess that at least half of the people getting their knickers in a hitch aren't going to be playing golf here, maybe they'll be teeing it up in the village of Heavenly.

Life is way....way....way too short for this angst.

Gracie, head cheerfully in sand but not dumb.

[swrinfla]

Gracie said: "Life is way....way....way too short for this angst."

Oh my, how much

I understand that many of our newer residents are still youngsters - that is, barely 65 - and so they are, perhaps looking further into the future than those of us who are on the down-hill side of 70! Still, your "youth" does not justify the anger!

SWR

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by stjames

Yes, EdVnMass has it right with a direct quote from the covenants and restrictions all buyers sign. The amenities will never be owned by our CDDs.
They are owned by the VCCDD or what is the Morse family.
The clubhouses and pools are maintained very well, there is Free 9 hole golf and the use of these facilities is certainly worth the amenity fee ea. month.
But don't forget that the amenity fee goes up ea. yr. based on the CPI index and the likelyhood of 6-10% inflation within 2-3 yrs. is very high. Don't forget that the percentage of increase is based on the previous year's fees. Therefore, a compounding effect occurs which will drive amenity fees up much faster than many realize.

Moreover, the biggest concern is really about the level of maintenance
in the future. It's great now.

(1) But what leverage, legal or otherwise do the residents have to demand that a high level of maintenance continues.

(2) What if VCCDD decides to close some of the clubhouses because they
say that the amenity fees will not support all the amenities?

(3) What reaction would Village residents have if the facilities were opened to the public for a fee?

If any or all of these situations developed many resiedents would want
to stop paying their amenity fees however don't forget that part of the purchase agreement all residents signed that states that the VCCDD, the
corporation/Morse family (at least one of these entities) have a
"FIRST LEIN" on your home. Thank you very much for your home!!!!!!

If any of these situations developed above I would think that the great
majority of owners would end up still paying their amenity fee despite
the downward trend of ambience of The Villages.

Also, keep in mind that Morse is being investigated by the IRS for an
abuse, at least, of the sale of muni-bonds to build the amenities. The regional office of the IRS has instructed Morse to sell the munis, pay back taxes of at least 15million and to acquire new bonds to pay for the amenities
and to not float any more munis. Morse has appealed this finding and as
many know this stand-off has been going on for one and half years.
However, if the IRS wins with its original ruling, stated above, where would
Morse find the money to acquire new bonds, much less would the sale
of the existing munis be at a low price, given the muni-market current
difficulties.

Many that read this post will just say: "Speculation! Speculation!"
But these are really serious questions about the future of The Villages.
So I leave you with two questions that I hope will draw some responses.
I don't know the answers to these two questions, so I'm hoping to hear
if there is any recourse The Village residents would have or is the
answer simply: "NONE" - OUT OF LUCK!. I know that there are some former
lawyers that live in The Villages and others with some expertise in these
areas. Hopefully, they will respond also. Please ask others to read this
post. "The wisdom of many is always superior to the wisdom of a few"

(1) What legal or other methods of leverage do The Village residents have
available to them currently to force a high level of maintenance if
that maintenance level declines?

(2) What legal or other methods of leverage do The Village residents have
to prevent one or more clubhouses/pools from being closed if the VCCDD
runs into financial difficulty?

Thanks for reading this post and would greatly
appreciate any replies.

Your concerns about the IRS investigation are legitimate, but, at this stage, we apparently will have to await its outcome to determine if we have a problem and, if so, its magnitude. However, your $15 million figure is a gross understatement of the potential financial magnitude of the issue. While it sounds like a lot of money, if that were all we were talking about, I wouldn't be particularly concerned. Where did your $15-million figure come from? Here is a brief summary of the situation and dollar amounts involved: http://www.bondbuyer.com/issues/118_142/-305665-1.html


By alerting the IRS to the potential impact of an adverse decision on Villagers, I think that the POA has done all that can be done on behalf of the residents-- for the time being.

Basic answers to your questions about the possible adverse effects of the IRS investigation on residents can be found in the current POA Bulletin. Refer to page 9 in the "Editor's Response" section and to page 12, item #4.

Also consider that IF action against the Developer again becomes necessary to protect our rights because of the IRS investigation or for any other reason, as happened at the time of the class-action lawsuit, the POA is the ONLY organization that we have to represent us and to protect our interests. (The VHA, as you probably realize, is essentially a front for the Developer.) For that reason, the POA deserves both our time and our financial support in order to try to ensure that it is here and healthy if we need it.

In addition, since we have no local newspaper, the Talk of the Villages forum will be invaluable, if something bad happens vis-a-vis the Developer, as a means of communicating among ourselves and developing a concerted plan of action. For that reason, I hope that the TOV also continues to thrive.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Advogado

Your concerns about the IRS investigation are legitimate, but, at this stage, we apparently will have to await its outcome to determine if we have a problem and, if so, its magnitude. However, your $15 million figure is a gross understatement of the potential financial magnitude of the issue. While it sounds like a lot of money, if that were all we were talking about, I wouldn't be particularly concerned. Where did your $15-million figure come from? Here is a brief summary of the situation and dollar amounts involved: http://www.bondbuyer.com/issues/118_142/-305665-1.html


By alerting the IRS to the potential impact of an adverse decision on Villagers, I think that the POA has done all that can be done on behalf of the residents-- for the time being.

Basic answers to your questions about the possible adverse effects of the IRS investigation on residents can be found in the current POA Bulletin. Refer to page 9 in the "Editor's Response" section and to page 12, item #4.

Also consider that IF action against the Developer again becomes necessary to protect our rights because of the IRS investigation or for any other reason, as happened at the time of the class-action lawsuit, the POA is the ONLY organization that we have to represent us and to protect our interests. (The VHA, as you probably realize, is essentially a front for the Developer.) For that reason, the POA deserves both our time and our financial support in order to try to ensure that it is here and healthy if we need it.

In addition, since we have no local newspaper, the Talk of the Villages forum will be invaluable, if something bad happens vis-a-vis the Developer, as a means of communicating among ourselves and developing a concerted plan of action. For that reason, I hope that the TOV also continues to thrive.

My dear. Haven't you EVER heard that the only things that you absolutely can count on are death and taxes?

Not even the POA is gonna change any outcomes there.

I still say...the sky isn't falling.

but if you want to worry about it...go ahead.

[Taj44]

Advogado & StJames - you are both spot on in my opinion. Those are legitimate questions and issues to ponder. There will always be people who llike to bury their heads in the sand, but I believe in being as educated as possible about things that will affect me (and my lifestyle here in The Villages), and being able to be proactive when possible and if necessary. If people hadn't been honest with themselves and filed that $40 million lawsuit, we wouldn't be enjoying the fruits of that action today.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Taj44

Advogado & StJames - you are both spot on in my opinion. Those are legitimate questions and issues to ponder. There will always be people who llike to bury their heads in the sand, but I believe in being as educated as possible about things that will affect me (and my lifestyle here in The Villages), and being able to be proactive when possible and if necessary. If people hadn't been honest with themselves and filed that $40 million lawsuit, we wouldn't be enjoying the fruits of that action today.

Gosh. I bet you mean me...sand head.