Originally Posted by Goldwingnut (Post 2358782)

Bill14564’s answers here have been spot on.

Concerning the Prevailing rate adjustments, they usually happen in January, right after the developer closes out their books for the previous tax year. Unlike the clowns in Washington who use the CPI as a political football and tinker with the calculations each year to try to make themselves look good, the developer has to live in the real world of real cost increases. The amenities for the developer are simply another business unit (applies only to the ones they own - those south of SR44) and have to calculate exactly what it costs them to run and maintain the amenities they own and adjust the Prevailing rate each year to ensure they operate a sustainable business unit. Once they know the number then a new prevailing rate for new homes is established.

The deed restrictions define how the amenity fee can be adjusted. Annually the CPI is used to make this adjustment in what each home pays (it’s calculated every month for the past 12 months which is what homes next to each other may get different adjustments). The CPI is however a looser from a financial prospective as it doesn’t ever keep up with the real cost increases, so each year the boards have to work hard to try to contain costs with the effectively decreasing budget (due to inflation). The only relief to this losing battle comes with the reset that occurs when a home is sold and the new owner pays the current prevailing rate.

Many falsely believe that as the villages grows and more homes pay amenity fees that that should cover the cost increased due to inflation. What they fail to understand is that these new homes are paying for the organic growth in the budget and not the inflationary budget increases. Organic growth being the increase in budget costs caused by adding new amenity facilities (and their O&M costs) as the community and number of homes grow. The CPI adjustment tries to address the inflationary budget increased, but as said earlier, it does a poor job at keeping up with inflation.

Originally Posted by Maker (Post 2359045)

Excellent explanation of HOW new rates are calculated. That process is clear.

So please explain the justification for WHY it's okay that everybody pays a different amount for the exact same amenities. Everybody should pay the same amount for the same amenities. Not $179 for them, $195 for them, $210 for them.

What if you and I are in line at the grocery store with identical items in our carts. The bill should be identical. If mine is more, is my jug of milk more valuable than yours? Why was I charged a different amount for identical things?

What if our houses (next door to each other) are assessed at $500k, and all exemptions are equal. Why would it be okay for my tax bill to be less than your tax bill?

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 (Post 2358845)

Has nothing to do with the sky falling. It is a question of, fairness, equality. Since we all have equal access to everything the "lifestyle" has to offer, shouldn't we all pay an equal access fee? The "chump change" amount seems like a cheap shot at folks who worked hard for every dollar they earned. Others are just naturally thrifty and want full, fair value for what they spend. A simple question that seems to have a not so simple answer.🫠🫠🫠

Originally Posted by LeRoySmith (Post 2358856)

I get where you're coming from but I think ge was a physician, it may seem they make a lot of money in general but that's a job I wouldn't want. Based on the length of education, dealing with people within their personal space and the horrible condition people let their bodies get into I think the money is well earned and deserved.

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 (Post 2358920)

True! But some who, regardless of their job/ career, end up with far more money than others. What seem "chump change" to one may seem significant or meaningful to another, depending upon what the expenditure is for. The term , "chump" is actually an insult, infers that said "chump" is of lesser value as a person. "Chump change", while a common enough expression, is actually insult by inference that a person's human or societal value is directly proportional to their wealth or lack of it.
Good of you to come to GE's defense, but I was not attacking him. I have too much respect for him to do that, regardless of the fact we do differ in our opinions.

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2359048)

That is a good example and explains why things are the way they are - the exemptions on the three homes are NOT equal so the tax bills are NOT the same.

You and your two neighbors have identical homes assessed at $500K. One of your neighbors purchased three years ago, you purchased two years ago, and your other neighbor purchased last year. Your tax bills are all different!

The neighbor from three years ago filed for the Homestead Exemption and is benefiting from two years of the Save Our Homes limitation on taxable assessment increases. He pays less than you.

You purchased two years ago and filed for the Homestead Exemption so you are benefiting from that and but only one year of Save Our Homes if that. You will pay a little more.

The assessed value of your other neighbor's home was just adjusted to *his* exemptions rather than those of the previous owner so his tax bill just increased quite a bit. His exemptions will kick in next year. His tax bill is higher than both of yours.

The same with amenity fees. Those that have been here longer started at a lower initial rate. While everyone's amenity fee increases annually by the CPI over the last 12 months (written into the deed restrictions), the initial rate which is set by the Developer each year typically increases more than the CPI. Therefore, the more years you have been in your home, the larger the difference between your amenity rate and that of a new home buyer.

There is one interesting difference between the amenity rate and the Save Our Homes reduction: the amenity rate resets when you purchase a new home but the reduction does not. When I purchase a home my amenity fee is set to the current initial rate regardless of what it was in my previous home. However, my Save Our Homes reduction is portable and can be carried over to the new home. Me and my neighbor are very likely NOT paying the same in property tax because we have a different history with the Save Our Home reduction.

Originally Posted by Maker (Post 2359059)

The example was two houses (of any age or style) are exactly equal in assessed value (and exemptions) are both taxed at the same rate per $1000
Exactly same property taxes. All the other words about ages, size, etc are irrelevant when assessed values are identical.

In the amenity fee thinking, one house would be taxed at a different amount.
But that would be unfair.

What is unclear about this?

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut (Post 2358782)

Bill14564’s answers here have been spot on.

Concerning the Prevailing rate adjustments, they usually happen in January, right after the developer closes out their books for the previous tax year. Unlike the clowns in Washington who use the CPI as a political football and tinker with the calculations each year to try to make themselves look good, the developer has to live in the real world of real cost increases. The amenities for the developer are simply another business unit (applies only to the ones they own - those south of SR44) and have to calculate exactly what it costs them to run and maintain the amenities they own and adjust the Prevailing rate each year to ensure they operate a sustainable business unit. Once they know the number then a new prevailing rate for new homes is established.

The deed restrictions define how the amenity fee can be adjusted. Annually the CPI is used to make this adjustment in what each home pays (it’s calculated every month for the past 12 months which is what homes next to each other may get different adjustments). The CPI is however a looser from a financial prospective as it doesn’t ever keep up with the real cost increases, so each year the boards have to work hard to try to contain costs with the effectively decreasing budget (due to inflation). The only relief to this losing battle comes with the reset that occurs when a home is sold and the new owner pays the current prevailing rate.

Many falsely believe that as the villages grows and more homes pay amenity fees that that should cover the cost increased due to inflation. What they fail to understand is that these new homes are paying for the organic growth in the budget and not the inflationary budget increases. Organic growth being the increase in budget costs caused by adding new amenity facilities (and their O&M costs) as the community and number of homes grow. The CPI adjustment tries to address the inflationary budget increased, but as said earlier, it does a poor job at keeping up with inflation.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2359050)

Sorry, but when we are talking about $3,5,7/ month, that IS chump change and regardless of one's prior occupation nobody here is that marginal that it makes a difference. But if you must know, I was relatively poor for a physician. Many of my colleagues thought I was the "chump", I didn't pack my schedule, saw 2-4 patients/hour, gave away probably $2-3 million in free care to those that WERE that marginal. I wouldn't be insensitive enough to call , say, hundreds of dollars/month "chump change", but c'mon----$3 or 5 or even 10. Lets be real.
And BTW fdpaq----I respect you as well---if I didn't, I wouldn't bother debating you. Plus, every now and then we DO agree on SOMETHING :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Originally Posted by DrHitch (Post 2358931)

Your amenity fee of $189 per month covers a lot more than . . .

Originally Posted by MplsPete (Post 2359153)

Now I'm confused. I see that number (189) frequently. But, earlier in this thread, I thought I saw people saying their amenity fees varied widely, from under 189 to over 200. So, does everyone really pay 189, or does the fee vary from house to house, even next door neighbors?

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2359061)

You are ignoring the details that result in the amenity fee being different.

To compare apples to apples you would have two homes purchased at exactly the same time. In that case, the amenity fee for the two homes would be exactly the same just as the exemptions and property tax.

If the amenity fee was different then the reason was the homes were purchased in different years. If the homes were purchased in different years then the exemptions would NOT be exactly the same and the property tax would NOT be the same.

Originally Posted by DrHitch (Post 2358931)

Your amenity fee of $189 per month covers a lot more than just the golf... In fact, the golf courses and their maintenance is a small portion of the overall amenity fee.

Look around at all the common areas, such as all of the flower beds along Morse and Buena Vista....plus the swimming pools, rec center maintenance, etc etc.

Sure, each house has its own maintenance needs.

Originally Posted by Maker (Post 2359245)

EVERYBODY should pay the SAME amount of money for IDENTICAL amenities.

I do not care about the method they invented to calculate amenity fees. I do not care when the "anniversary date" is. I do not care when the house was sold. I do not care about any long winded reasoning to justify charging DIFFERENT AMOUNTS.

If you pay more than me, please explain exactly what you are getting for that extra money? What does your extra $25 a month get for you that I do not also get? Maybe preferred seating at cards? Better tee times? Pool temperatures controlled to the temperature you prefer?

Originally Posted by Maker (Post 2359245)

EVERYBODY should pay the SAME amount of money for IDENTICAL amenities.

I do not care about the method they invented to calculate amenity fees. I do not care when the "anniversary date" is. I do not care when the house was sold. I do not care about any long winded reasoning to justify charging DIFFERENT AMOUNTS.

If you pay more than me, please explain exactly what you are getting for that extra money? What does your extra $25 a month get for you that I do not also get? Maybe preferred seating at cards? Better tee times? Pool temperatures controlled to the temperature you prefer?

Originally Posted by Maker (Post 2359245)

EVERYBODY should pay the SAME amount of money for IDENTICAL amenities.

I do not care about the method they invented to calculate amenity fees. I do not care when the "anniversary date" is. I do not care when the house was sold. I do not care about any long winded reasoning to justify charging DIFFERENT AMOUNTS.

If you pay more than me, please explain exactly what you are getting for that extra money? What does your extra $25 a month get for you that I do not also get? Maybe preferred seating at cards? Better tee times? Pool temperatures controlled to the temperature you prefer?

Originally Posted by Topspinmo (Post 2359262)

‘fact, the golf courses and their maintenance is a small portion of the overall amenity fee.’

Do you have figures to back that fact up? Golf courses I bet are half of amenities fees cost?