I started seeing my tee time requests (for a group of about 16) being denied regularly about 5 years ago. Prior to that, it was a rare event. In the last several years, I started excluding those with more than 3 points. I don't think it has made much of a difference. An average points total over about 2 has a good probability of being denied with 25 courses and a 4 hour time window.

If you take the time to review the annual audits of the various CDDs that are performed by an independent auditor you'll see that very little is contracted with developer owned companies, the two biggest are TSG for IT support and The Villages Media Group for advertising.

I don’t have the time or interest (or resources for that matter) to trace ownership of those companies. With the number of companies the Developer owns it could be extremely difficult to trace all the connections. Plus, I also included companies only associated with the Developer whether they are wholly owned or not.

The point I was trying to make is that the impact of the Developer leaving looks negligible but might have impacts that won’t be seen unless it happened.

I think you may find that TSG has licensed some aspects of their system from Chelsea Systems or has some sort of deal with them. The point system is almost identical, albeit the TV system has more variables than most users.

Chelsea is in Coral Gables and is now owned by Northstar, who one of the biggest players in the country club and golf world. I can't believe they wouldn't be interested in TV's business and wouldn't respond to an RFP, unless they already have a piece the action.

The monthly fee ($8) for Village.net hasn’t changed. It must be profitable. When something isn’t broke why fix it?

How could the "advertising budget" for the District, be in the same ball park as the IT support budget?

If you go by that, people would still be using typewriters.

The golf system needs to be updated and mobile apps made available. I've worked in software development my whole career. It's likely that a newer system would easier to use and cheaper to maintain.

The villages golf system would not be very difficult at all to rewrite into a modern system accessible by web or smartphone apps.

They own the bank. They own the squares. They own the properties upon which the businesses around the squares exist. They own the new developments, UNTIL such time as they hand them off to the CDDs, which doesn't happen until they're finished with that area's buildout. They own the real estate agency that has exclusive rights to represent all new construction. They own the mortgage company. They own the Sharon Morse center. They own properties outside The Villages (the Publix/Winn-Dixie strip mall next to Spanish Springs). They own the properties upon which many medical centers are located, and the buildings the people running those centers pay rent on.

At some point - maybe not in our lifetimes, but at some point - there will be an "end of the line" of the family, and that end of the line will say "nope, not interested." Given that they own SO MUCH of all this - what will happen to it all when they finally walk away? They can. There's nothing stopping them from simply rejecting any lease renewals on properties they rent out, and letting those leases expire, and shutting down all the buildings, disconnecting services, and walking away.

They could sell it all, one piece at a time, to whoever they feel like selling it to, liquidate the whole shebang. And there is nothing we can do about it because - they own it all. No more medical centers, no more live music on the squares, no more businesses IN the squares, no more performances at the Sharon Morse Center, and heck - they could probably even shut down the Charter schools.

What guarantees - in writing - do we residents of The Villages have, that this won't happen? What measures have the CDDs and other government structures taken to ensure the continued running of the community in perpetuity?

Beginning of the end?

Electronic headline this morning:
"Despite encompassing dozens of individual neighborhoods, a retirement website collectively ranked The Villages as the second most popular active adult community, one spot behind a subdivision in Ocala that took the top spot." :shrug:

This is nothing more than fear-mongering.

Yep, there are billions of dollars of value in these agreements/transactions and "the family" is just going to end them and throw away the value. :loco::loco::loco:

The second statement is even more silly. They sell the agreements/transactions/properties and the new buyer just shuts everything down and ignores their billion dollar investment. Again........:loco::loco::loco:

Just wait five minutes and a new article will be out and a new ranking will be published. Nothing new.

:oops:

A dozen years ago when Debbie and I started looking at a retirement community to move to we looked OTOW 55+'s #1 community in this article, and about a dozen others. We back shelved TV initially because we were concerned about the price and size of the community. During our months of looking here in Florida (we live just outside Winter Haven in Haines City, so it was all easy day trips for us to look) we looked at well over two dozen communities and weighed the +'s and -"s of each. Many of the smaller ones either had reached or were near their end of life for development and showed the disinterest by their developer in sustaining the community, "resident owned" quickly turned into a red flag. There was a commonality between ALL of the larger and growing communities that without exception ALWAYS surfaced in listening to the sales pitch, a statement to the effect of "Our community is better than The Villages because..." and there was always some nuance that they felt made them better.

I made a lot of notes on each community, there were many things to like about each- location, floor plans, unique features, etc. and many things to dislike - HOA fees & rules, cost, limited amenities, location, etc.. The "we're better than TV" comments quickly became another line item I tracked.

One thing I learned long ago, when every business compares themselves to another business, they are telling you who their main competition is. When every business compares themselves to the same business, you know who the best is, they are all telling you.

I looked at OTOW twice before making a final decision, the prices were less than TV, and they were close to a lot of businesses in Ocala - big winner on both points without doubt. But the downsides stood out like a sore thumb- limited amenities and activities, but most importantly a felling of desolation permeated the community - no one outside, no one at the pool, no one being active outside, no one using the community center, nobody around and when you did see someone not a wave or a smile was returned in exchange, the place felt like a graveyard. OTOW quickly moved to the BOTL (bottom of the list).

Even after buying in TV I ventured back to OTOW "just to make sure", over the years I've made multiple trips there and even looked at expanding my home photo business there. Working in Gainesville for 3 years while living in TV I saw their signs a lot on I75, and they kept drawing me in, I felt compelled to "look again" - the power of effective advertising. I made the right decision.

I've visited several other 55+ communities since retiring nearly 7 years ago, curious yes, in search of greener pastures, perhaps. In fact Margaritaville in on my list to visit next - AFTER this COLD weather passes. Something about the name is drawing me to the bar...

Don't loose sight of the fact that 55+ is a for profit website and they want clicks for their advertisers ads. Take a look at who's advertising and compare that to their list of "best places", 1+1=2, money talks. Based on my personal experience, there may be many communities that can give TV a run for their money for a variety of reasons, but in my opinion OTOW wouldn't make the short list.

TVMG is the primary printing company used by the District for everything from forms to be filled out to the Rec News insert, they also do lots of advertising for recreation events on WVLG which is also a part of the TVMG, it's a bundled package. The District office works to combine the service needed by all the entities they support into as few contacts as possible to help realize cost savings (the Costco effect?).

When last I did a detailed budget review before leaving the CDD10 board and PWAC the combined numbers for all CDDs and amenities were about $1M with TVMG and about $4M with TSG - pretty much a drop in the bucket for the combined budgets that these contracts provide service to. The combined amenities budgets is about $225M this year and there are many more budget that draw support from these contracts for support.

Thanks Don. When you add printing into the equation, it's a no-brainer. & at $1m vs $4M it's not even close.

I'd suggest the IT Budget is a huge number, but at 2% of budget, it's obviously inline.

...
Exactly right!
...
We visited all three of the existing Latitudes Margaritavilles (Hilton Head, Daytona, Watersound near 30A).
My greatest fear with them, besides their microcosm-like size compared to The Villages, is what happens when they reach buildout and the Developer pulls out. The sales office and staff go away, the subsidies go away, the resort pool needs acid-washing and replastering, etc..

That being said, they have one HUGE advantage over The Villages, imho. Their home floorpans and the interior design of the model homes are superior. None of the "shotgun" style Village floorplans wherein you walk in the front door and see straight out to the lanai. No, the floorpans are comfortable, well laid out, and interesting. The way they made the plans with the smallest square footage so usable is impressive. I'm speaking of the cottage and villa plans such as the dreamsicle, bamboo, Jamaica, and Nevis for example. For what it is worth, the interior design of the models at Hilton Head is more impressive than the other two properties.

My concerns stated in the first paragraph are why we opted against Latitude Margaritaville. We did a Lifestyle visit (I think they call it a StayNPlay) at theDaytona property. Aside from the ability to drive the golf cart off property to a Publix or to their version of a town center, there wasn't a whole lot of other use for a cart. Their town centers, by the way, consist of a gym, a business center for faxing, etc., a small performance area, and bar/grill. So, essentially a single restaurant. In my experiences it was not well used. I fear it will not be able to sustain itself once that sales office goes away.

Looking forward to hearing your insights after your visit.