[Viperguy]

That's why they need to salary their sales staff. Bought my last new car on line. No tricks. JMHO

[fred53]

Yeah...my guess is that fee they claim they don't charge is always put somewhere else on the bill and called something more palatable. I base my cost on what the car cost the dealer and add no more than 5%.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Toymeister

What is the general consensus on the wholesale clubs (Sam's or Costco) car buying/referral services. I understand they deal with bottom line pricing, and effectively deal with these add on fees. Am I mistaken?

I think that, if you do your homework, you will get a better deal than using a buying service. Also, I think that some dealers use the buying service as a way to get you in the door and then do a bait and switch. Although, I hope Costco and Sam's are doing some follow-up to prevent this kind of thing from happening. I would ask them for names of dealers they have removed from their service for that reason. If you use a buying service, make sure that the exact car you are buying is actually located on the lot at the dealership where you are going to buy the car, and that you know the out-the-door price in advance. Do not fall for the dealer tactic where you pay a deposit, so the dealer can have the car you want delivered from another dealer's lot. You will never get the deposit back and you may never see the exact car that you expected to get.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by geofitz13

Allow me to play devil's advocate. People refer to "sticker price." It is actually "Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail Price." It is also called the "Monroney sticker", after the legislator who introduced the law in congress. The idea was to attempt to level the playing field, where a standard price for each model is shown, as a starting point. Before the Monroney law, sellers could quote any price that popped into their heads. Note that is it a suggested price. Why is it acceptable for a consumer to demand a discount, but condemn a dealer who asks for more? It is all based on supply and demand. Pick the car you want. Determine what you want to pay, including all taxes, registration and any accessories or add ons. If you can swing the deal, good for you. If you cannot, it's obviously because your price was too low. Dealers do not walk away from deals if there is a profit. Do not take it personally, it is a transaction, and if it is good for both parties, it will be completed. If it does not satisfy both parties, there is no deal.

I agree with most of what you say, except that the sticker price law has been compromised by manufacturers using rebates. When a car has a rebate, they have effectively changed the MSRP. Almost all cars sold now have some kind of rebate, so you cannot really compare car prices by just looking at the window sticker.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by geofitz13

Allow me to play devil's advocate. People refer to "sticker price." It is actually "Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail Price." It is also called the "Monroney sticker", after the legislator who introduced the law in congress. The idea was to attempt to level the playing field, where a standard price for each model is shown, as a starting point. Before the Monroney law, sellers could quote any price that popped into their heads. Note that is it a suggested price. Why is it acceptable for a consumer to demand a discount, but condemn a dealer who asks for more? It is all based on supply and demand. Pick the car you want. Determine what you want to pay, including all taxes, registration and any accessories or add ons. If you can swing the deal, good for you. If you cannot, it's obviously because your price was too low. Dealers do not walk away from deals if there is a profit. Do not take it personally, it is a transaction, and if it is good for both parties, it will be completed. If it does not satisfy both parties, there is no deal.

Dealers do not walk away from deals if they can pick you pockets clean.

I agree They WILL NOT do the deal if they are not making certain amount. they will make you think you got good deal and they gave the car away, but if they do that they won't be in the business long. IMO the WILL make 3k or more or they won't trade, they have too to stay in business. Trading is the worse thing you can do if you have good car, (but most don't want to go through the hassle of private sale.) They're going to want it WAY under the value. Make enough trades and sells after awhile all used cars on the lot are pure profit.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I agree with most of what you say, except that the sticker price law has been compromised by manufacturers using rebates. When a car has a rebate, they have effectively changed the MSRP. Almost all cars sold now have some kind of rebate, so you cannot really compare car prices by just looking at the window sticker.

that's cause they are over priced and even with rebates they still will make they're minimum profit or they WON'T do the deal.

[geofitz13]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

Dealers do not walk away from deals if they can pick you pockets clean.

I agree They WILL NOT do the deal if they are not making certain amount. they will make you think you got good deal and they gave the car away, but if they do that they won't be in the business long. IMO the WILL make 3k or more or they won't trade, they have too to stay in business. Trading is the worse thing you can do if you have good car, (but most don't want to go through the hassle of private sale.) They're going to want it WAY under the value. Make enough trades and sells after awhile all used cars on the lot are pure profit.

The average profit on a new car deal in the U.S. in 2016 was less than $1000. This includes the direct profit on the vehicle sale, and any profit from dealer incentives, aftermarket sales, such as warranties, etc. Keep in mind that this is the AVERAGE profit. Do dealers make $3k profit on some sales? Absolutely. Do they actually lose money on some sales. Again, absolutely. There seems to be a belief that dealers make obscene profits. Would you invest $30k in order to make a profit of $1,000? I doubt it. And I haven't even mention the overhead. Well over $200k per month overhead at the average new car dealer. As far as trades, you are correct. The worst thing you can do is trade it. But you could sell it privately to someone who thinks you are charging way too much and wants a perfect car. If something goes wrong, they are probably coming back at you. Consumers think that sellers owe them everything. And when you sell your car privately, YOU are the seller.
Are there some dishonest dealers out there? Absolutely, but they are in the minority. They are investing too much money to put it in jeopardy for a couple questionable sales.

[geofitz13]

Retiredguy makes some good points. Rebates can confuse the situation, but if you are looking at a Ford XXX with certain equipment at one dealer, then the identical vehicle at another dealer has the same MSRP. Again, this was meant to be a starting point. As far as "swaps" are concerned, I have purchased several cars this way and never had a problem. I have also arranged swaps for customers, and on the RARE occasion that something happened and we could not get the exact car the customer wanted, the choice was up to the customer. Accept the car we could get, or get his deposit refunded.
If you saw the audited financials from most dealers, you would wonder why they stay in business.