Anyone can use all the cart paths today, even with the new wall. You can cross 441/27 with a LSV and use the cart paths. Or you can go rent a golf cart for a small fee and run around all day long. Don't even need to be a senior. The number of carts that come from Stonecrest or Spruce Creek South is really small in number. The majority of this inconvenience is on the shoulders of those that live in the Historic Section and the Spanish Springs area.

Three days into this sad situation and still no official word concerning the wall. We don't know why it installed, assume it will be there for good. Don't see a resolution any time soon.

where can an lsv cross other than up at spruce creek south? and you surely don't mean that anything other than street legals can cross, do you?

New People
 

For you new people. This is still a great community but has some serious warts that must be removed. Hopefully all residence will remember this at election time as the ballot box is always the democratic way to get rid of these rascals. I was going to go into more discussion but it is probably useless and only voting the varmits out will fix these kind of problems. How many "elected" officials from the State Reps. down to the CDD members have you seen at the wall demanding action? You don't have to take your shoes off as you can probably count them on 1/2 a hand. Of course the POA President was there but you would not expect less from the POA..:bowdown:

I think that if it does come to a court case a decent lawyer would be able to get an injunction keeping the path open until the case is settled, seeing as how it has been open for 20 years.

Maybe Buggy, but maybe not so anxious buyers!

LSV (Street Legal) can cross at the light next to the two banks coming out of the Lowes parking lot. You can cross there at the Hospital and Doctors offices. You basically can cross anywhere there on 441/27. Golf carts are not considered LSVs. They cannot cross legally.

I would agree that there are not many LSV's from outside communities using our paths now but what evidence do you have that very few carts come into The Villages from Stonecrest?

There was a post on here just a bit ago from a gal, Donna, in Stonecrest telling how up-in-arms people there are about the news of the wall being installed by The Villages to which Graciegirl responded that there were previous threads regarding the matter.

I believe the majority of the inconvenience is on the shoulders of the people in Stonecrest, am I wrong... EdV? I understand EdV's, (who is working very hard to keep this accessible for Stonecrest), efforts to keep access to The Villages open for Stonecresters, but my investment is in The Villages and I don't want the increase in cart traffic that a nice paved path straight into The Villages paths will create.

There was a very, very serious bike vs cart accident on one of The Villages golf cart paths a short time ago. The accident was the fault of the cart driver who was from Oxford, not The Villages and did not belong on these paths. Would this have happened in gated Stonecrest?

Skip... this is the first mention of Lester... was surprised that it had not come up before.

Dr Gary Lester, VP of Community Relations for The Villages... the main PR guy. If ever there was a need for a PR man...they need one now.

BK... anyone been in contact with Lester?

I have been a long time supporter of the developer for the wonderful community he has built and the rewards he has reaped for the risks he took. I believed in the 'benevolent dictatorship' since things have always run smoothly and kept getting better. Not so sure about the benevolent part now. Either he didn't know how many people would be impacted or just didn't care. If the latter, that's just sad. If the former, a good PR man can smooth things over and return the path to operation.

Whether it was a business/liability decision or just a feud with a rival landowner, an explanation before taking action would have headed off most of this controversy.

For the record, I live south of LSL but we both have doctors in the medical plaza adjacent to TV and on the other side of Lowes and probably used the "hole in the wall" 10-15 times a year. With 1 car, 2 carts this will be an inconvenience for us. For some folks, it is a game changer. We are all Villagers and should have empathy for those most directly affected.

I hope this is resolved quickly and things are restored back to what was with face saved all the way around.

Very poorly handled and might make the commissioners in Fruitland Park think twice about wanting to invite TV development into their city limits...they will have effectively ceded future control of their town to TV's developers.

I'm not too proud of Gary and Mark Morse right now.

Civil Court can be a nightmare with all kinds of legal maneuvers to frustrate even the most patient in life.

His office stopped taking calls on Monday afternoon and Tuesday. I don't know about today. I've been busy and didn't get a chance to call.

I agree. It is a wonderful place to live and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. I also think that the developer has done a wonderful job and has given us all an opportunity for a very nice lifestyle. He has been rewarded for that and so have the many employees and us residents.

I don't like what was done here and I'd like to see it either reversed or explained. But that is only one aspect of life here. There is so much good about the place.

That why they issue injunctions. By the way, I had a typo in my post and I fixed it. I meant an injunction keeping the path open until it is settled.

Peachie, this is not "These are my toys and you can't play with them" We residents of the Historic side have been harmed by the construction of the Concrete Curtain We are the predominant users of the right-of-way, not Stonecrest or anyplace else. I'm sure the merchants doing business in SS are happy to have their business.

I knew what you meant. If the community would have known ahead of the actual closing then I agree, an injunction would have easily been issued to keep the path open until litigation was resolved. This is why I believe it was handled in the way it was handled. Now that the wall is up it works in the opposite direction. No judge will order the wall removed.

"Mr. Morse, Tear Down This Wall!"
 

As a 22year resident of The Villages, and a resident on Paradise Dr., it's pretty clear that this decision, especially given it's "stealthiness" has to do with something personal and probably petty.

When was the last time you saw the Morse family NOT trumpet some change to The Villages infrastructure? Their total silence and the refusal of Lester's office to even respond to this doesn't pass the smell test.

Years ago, the Morses wanted to make that cart passage a thru STREET, and we went up in arms about it, and so the cart path was modified, including the island (it used to have a gate pass system). The path only helps The Villages by bringing traffic into it at the Square, and by providing convenience to the medical building, doctors' offices, Urgent Care and other shopping areas NOT in competition with Villages businesses.

So what's left besides cutting off your nose to spite your face?

Hopefully the Morses will see the folly of their pettiness, and the loss of profit, and quietly and quickly reverse this horrible mis-calculation of public sentiment and restore good-will.

The Morses have built up too much good-will in our community by providing such a great place to live. Please don't make the memory of our dear Harold turn over in his grave over a petty argument!:sad:

Welcome to Talk of the Villages. I am sorry that we are meeting under these circumstances but what a pleasure it is to read your wise and well thought out words. I hope you stick around. I have a feeling we can learn a lot from you.

I guess I'm missing something - please help me understand.

Nowhere else in TV does the developer 'invite' you to take a cart onto private property. There are signs everywhere that say "no carts past this point" or we have those brown fences which signal 'out of bounds' if you will. The fact that people did (not the developer) basically create a path for these many years that lead to 'off campus' facilities does not in any way mean it was meant to be that way forever.

Yes I can greatly sympathize with those that built their agenda around this access but there are many other examples around TV to look at:

When Sumter Place was built with 3 stories instead of 2 people bitched. Although Sumter Place is not owned by TV.

When lands that were once vacant or had buffalo on them were developed and neighbors lost their privacy in their backyards they bitched.

People along 466a that back up to the now occupied by cows farmland are bitching at the possible sale of that land that may lead to further homes in their current quiet back yards.

The point is you can only control what is known. If you buy a home next to current vacant land you may not have it that way forever. If you take a cart path on locations that they are not supposed to be on but do it anyway don't expect that condition to last forever.

I think it would be different if there was something in writing that granted easement to these properties but this is just something that developed over time and times change.

Go ahead and call me the bad guy if you wish. I have empathy for you and feel where you are coming from but...

Jeff, how about a grown-up rephrasing of your statement... This is my real estate and you can devalue it by rewriting the covenants we all agreed to when we paid extra for this lifestyle. As I said in an earlier statement on here... different people we have talked with over the years from the Historic section hoped that the path would never be closed off. It was a gamble that the covenants of an enclosed community wouldn't be enforced.

Funny thing is I brought up a discussion with my husband this past spring about considering Stonecrest. It has much lower traffic, lower home prices, private and gated, golf course availability and if access to The Villages is streamlined, the conversation will sure be worth revisiting.

Villagers were invited to use this path by the very fact it was allowed for 20 years. Yes, there are signs every where, but there was never a sign there.

The wall prevents carts from traveling from TV onto TV property where The Villages Regional Hospital has their east campus and beyond. Have you ever taken the path from TV to TV Woodworking Shop on Rolling Acres?

Good points, Russ!

peachie - you post as if you believe there is an ever constant flow of stonecrest/spruce creek residents pouring into the villages daiyl...how many outside residents do you think really use that trail to access the villages and ride around on the cart paths?

Examples
 

I can name at least ten people who worked for the Developer and were terminated without explanation. I personally knew four or five that went the their former supervisors with the question why. The answer they were given was that they did not have to give a reason why!!! I also personally know that some of those who I can name, got their firing notification in a unique way. Their peronal items were piled out on the sidewalk when they arrived for work.

Once again let's remember it was the developer who provided the path, it was not made by the residents, He did the same thing between Tarrson Ave and near the post office.

If only 2 or 3 carts a day are coming over, njbchbum, why is the Stonecrest group even involved in the discussion? (If we moved to Stonecrest and that path is polished off and opened again, you can bet we'll be using it often.)

A point that you might be missing is that the businesses, the medical center, Lowes, the banks, Beals, Firehouse Subs, Aldi, Wal-Mart and the other 30 or so businesses over there are cart friendly. They allow carts in their parking lots. They have special parking for carts. The new assisted living facility advertised that it is cart friendly. Mr Robert Brown who owns all of that vacant land created a path and wanted us to use it. All of these places welcome carts. The residents of Stonecrest are also going off campus when they visit these businesses. The developer did not "invite" over there. We were invited a long time ago by the businesses.
All the developer, Harold Schwartz at the time,created a path for us to go through.
Up until this Saturday, we would go through the gate and be on the medical center's property, from there we would cross the assisted living facility, then onto a short dirt path alongside a cement water retention pond. After that, we crossed a public street and proceeded into Lowe's parking lot which is also Beal's parking lot and has several small business as well. From there, we could go on to another medical center and then into Aldi's parking lot. A short dirt path from Aldi's leads to the Wal-Mart parking lot.
All of these areas are cart friendly. They want out carts there. They make it easy for us to bring them there. It was never a question of the developer inviting the residents anywhere. All he did was not get in our way.

of course something put a burr under the developer's saddle - but i don't see it as a demand for $$ for use of the path. mr. brown, at least, has never indicated that the path would become another florida toll road.

i am going with the proposal that the developer is distraught that the landowner percieves 'golf cart access to the villages' for the land parcels he has for sale; and that the landowner anticipates higher property sales because of that; and that that is what has upset mr. morse - that just anyone would have golf cart access to his golf cart community!

so much for friendly hometown!

:gc::gc::gc:
Great post....Thanks!

gotcha! thanx!

I don't think that the developer gets a piece of every dollar spent. If it's like most real estate transactions, the developer simply rents the land to Wal-Mart.

Residents that have cars will continue to shop at the Wal-Mart on 27/441. Some, and I think very few, that do not have cars will not shop at Wal-Mart at all or they will get their friends to take them to the one on 27/441.

where is in the covenants that the villages is an enclosed community? what IS an enclosed community? i looked at my covenants and do not see that phrase in the paperwork.

sounds like a great idea!

Here's the deal as I see it on purchasing an LSV. By the time you pay the purchase price, taxes, registration, and insurance you will pay as much for the LSV as some of the small inexpensive autos. You will have a vehicle that is restricted to roads with a posted speed limit of 35 MPH or less and a limited range. With the auto you may pay a tad more for operating expenses but will have no limitations on where you may operate the vehicle. You also will have a safer vehicle to drive. Those that use an LSV(Low Speed Vehicle) are at a sever disadvantage in the event of an accident with a large automobile. You can fool your mind into thinking your driving a safe vehicle but you cannot change the physics. I know a bit off the subject but just a small detour.

pm'g you in order to keep thread on topic.

My only point is that when you put aside the emotions - Is there ANY other place in TV where you can legally bring a non street legal cart to that is OFF the campus?

I don't think so. But I may be wrong so please let us know of any other. Thanks.

If not then this (again, emotions aside) is just more off campus business that we can not get to.

I really like to bottom line things instead of allowing emotions to rule.

could you clarify the difference between 'in TV' and 'OFF the campus' please.
if it is off campus is it still in the villages? i will take a stab and suggest the villages wood working building on rolling acres rd that uses a path thru the woods and the golf range beyond that bldg that i don't think folks are supposed to cart to.

does it really matter whether one could leave the campus by golf cart from any other spot than the paradise dr non-gate?

we can also cross out of la plaza grande by the villages golf cart store/citizens bank at that traffic light to get to the target shopping center across avenida central.

What path are we talking about? The 'inside' path out of the historic district is only about 30 yards long. After that it is made up of various cut throughs and parking lots etc. Maybe there is some case to be heard because of some long standing easement but other than that many of these 'paths' are though non TV owned private land. Any ONE of them could cut access if they wished to.

I would think that the smaller stores like Takis etc would stand to lose more than Lowes, Walmart etc.

Are we in "TV" when we go to Fresh Market? Just curious.