I'm not familiar with all of the facilities at Stonecrest nor the fees associated with them or restrictions on them. If have fee for play golf, then it might be attractive to them to slip over here after 7pm and get in some free golf. Is it possible that they have to pay an additional fee to use their pool. If so maybe they have figured out that they can use ours for free. We also have a hot tub at the South Side Pool and perhaps people are using that.

At any rate, this is all speculation and we don't know what the whole story is and may never know. I'm more concerned that the path is going to be open again.

The VCCDD is a municipal district. It cannot grant selective access to/from an adjacent public road.

Here is a suggestion. For some reason there seems to be a perception that there are large numbers of non residents using the Village Golf Cart Paths. I smell an opportunity to make some money. Sell access stickers for say $200 per year to allow non residents to use the Golf Cart Paths. This way you could require they present proof of insurance and inspect the cart for safety. Then they would be contributing to the cost of the paths.

This from the VHA president's statement.

I'm guessing that either something happened or they got a new lawyer who decided that this was a liability issue. Perhaps an annual review by his insurance company made him aware of this potential problem.

By giving the property to the VHA it exempts the developer from any potential law suits, and allows the gate to be open.

This is just speculation on my part which I generally try to stay away from.

Still doubt the Stonecrest issue is as bad as people make it out to be, but agree that the primary concern here is to get the path open again:). They should have never made the change to begin with, especially in the manner which it was done.

So True oot

And you have to ask why there seems to be so much attention drawn to Stonecrest which has all of the amenities that TV has and yet little mention is made of the thousands of homeowners in other adjacent communities that have no recreational facilities at all.

Take that large residential area on the north side of Rt 42. No pools, no tennis or pick ball courts and so on.

Doesn’t it make more sense that any non-residents coming in and using TV amenities are likely to be from surrounding communities with no recreational facilities and not Stonecrest residents.

And those that are concerned that Stonecrest residents on carts may possibly cross over a short piece of amenity path remember that every TV resident that ever came over on a cart to play the Links of Stonecrest, was driving on roads paid for and maintained by Stonecrest residents.

Never the less, those that are focusing their attention on Stonecrest’s use of the cart path, are playing into the wall builders hands by diverting their attention away from the problem.

People from other communities cannot use TV's amenities such as pools, tennis,pickleball courts,etc. Only the restuarants,stores,squares,Champion GC's, etc,

No one from Stonecrest is using any of the Villages pools or Golf Courses unless they are paying greens fees. There is no additional fees in Stonecrest for the use of the pools, gym, or community centers. Golf is free if you are a member of the CC otherwise there is a cost to play golf witch includes a cart. There are many Villagers that Golf at Stonecrest because of the congestion on the Village Courses. Now you know the rest of the story.

As well as the Del Webb golf courses, the Villagers are here everyday golfing, and a lot of them.

Good morning, Oot! I think you could swing that door the other way and allow Villagers carts to come and go anytime in Stonecrest because anyone living or visiting The Villages might buy in there someday and we are their neighbors. No one would probably want to use their pool while they're there... and I'm talking access further than the restaurant or golf course.

As a Villager YOU are paying a premium because you have golf cart access to anything within The Villages owned property. Stonecrest does not pay that premium is more than welcome to come into the Squares in their street vehicles to shop and enjoy the entertainment, I believe Stonecresters are very nice people. Also take into consideration that soon Spruce Creek would have been able to use the same access. My friend, who lives in Spruce Creek, was looking forward to using that entrance and has made abundantly clear that she would never buy in The Villages, too expensive, (money is not an issue for her).

We have been reassured in these postings that only a couple of Stonecrest carts use this path so that impact should be very slight to that community but I already know one Spruce Creek resident excited about the highway crossing opening up so she could use The Villages cart paths.

Still a very small percentage at most. In the beginning there was more incentive to go to the shops at SS. However now with Wal-Mart, Lowes, Bells, Cracker Barrel, Sonic and soon access to the Mikiee dees and the Shops of Spruce Creek the incentive diminished. Outside Golf Carts are allowed in Stonecrest through the front gates. Although many people say they are headed to the restaurant or golf course there is no one traveling around checking who and where a golf cart originates.

For Info:

Villages residents often use Stonecrest facilities as both guests of Stonecrest residents and unauthorized use. Stonecrest has some facilities that the Villages do not; such as 8 lighted pickle ball courts, enclosed swimming pool and exercise facilities (all of which are at no additional fee to Stonecrest residents). Village residents have been know to use the Stonecrest golf courses, swimming pools, lighted pickle ball courts and exercise room after hours. The lighted pickle ball courts are reserved every Thursday night for use by expert players from other communities - mainly the Villages.

Stonecrest and other tri-county residents can not be guests and use villages facilities other than what is open to the general the public.

I have two brothers and sisters in law, an aunt and uncle and many friends who are villages residents and can not be their guest at a village pool, exec golf course, or other resident only facility. Stonecrest doesn't have resident only facilities.

.

Apologize
 

I for one apologizes to the Developer if he agrees to take the wall down and put in a "control gate". If he put the wall up because the new Assisted Living Center was lined up to use the streets and carts of the north side of the villages (Orange Blossom,etc.) across from 441/27 along with the other communities outside of The Villages using them then I for one totally support him. Why should the north end be saddled with outside traffic. The roads, paths etc were not built to support that load. I don't want to hear why not open up that part of TV's to all anymore than I would expect the residents of the various villages would welcome heavy traffic in their community. Believe me, using the pools as an example would be abused. We already get outsiders in the pool who don't pay for the upkeep, etc.
I believe a gate that requires an "opener" to open the gate is both appropriate and the right thing. Think how smart the builders of the Assisted Living were. They built a cart path and made everyone think it was for The Villagers. Oops' not so it was for them to have open usage of the Orange Blossom Villages and Village residency without paying the freight.
The only thing that I would seriously fault the Developer for was his lack of good PR people. He has to have the worse PR staff in the country..:ho:

TheVillagesFlBook.com
 

Good article posted on Facebook...

those would be the honest folks! there are others who believe that rules were not made to be folllowed by them!

Very thoughtful, nice post Penn!

Bless your heart Penn.

Rest assured Peachie. There are far fewer Spruce Creek residents interested
in getting to SS stores and beyond, than you think there are.
Besides Spruce Creek has several other direct access points to TV property, that have no gates...:popcorn:

Please don't take this the wrong way, but this Stonecrest thing has always bothered me overall. I understand I pay more to live in the Villages. I have access to a ton a clubs, many golf courses, many places I play various sports - more things than I can mention on how wonderful this place is. I also understand the fees we pay fund the paths.

I can go to Stonecrest anytime I like, just as they can come to the Villages just as they like. I have played their golf course, and ate at their restaurant, as they can on our side if they pay for golf. They don't get it for free.

If a visitor rents a cart should they be prohibited from riding the paths? Should we restrict the hotels from allowing people from parking in the lots for fear they may use a trail? Maybe ban the folk who rent the carts? Do you really think a cart riding down the path is going to cause such wear and tear that our fees are going to skyrocket?

There are people in Stonecrest, just as we have people here, which used that path. It has been that way for years and years. The wall is the real issue and it should never have been installed in the manner it was. I still feel the Stonecrest issue was never the reason for the wall to begin with.

Villagers in carts can also to be used to visit Stonecrest residents - best to ask your friend to call the gate so you can get a pass. All Stonecrest residents were issued guest passes to give to their guests so that they can use all Stonecrest facilities with the resident.

Stonecrest residents can not be guests in the Villages.

Villagers in carts can visit the home builder, Armstrong Homes, and get a guided tour.

Villagers in carts can make arrangements the realitors to visit homes for sale.

Villagers in carts can not be given unlimited access to Stonecrest - it's a gated community with private roads.

.

Reading this made a light bulb (albeit a dim one) go. Part of the dispute with the IRS is whether or not the VCDD is a "public entity". The IRS argues that it is not and thus can't act like a public entity.

However, if the State of Florida weighs in by insisting that the piece of land is now owned by a public entity (and thus must be publically accessible), then it makes the IRS case much weaker. The VCDD can't be public sometimes and private sometimes.

As long as the lot is owned by the developer, it is "private property" (remember that assertion from Monday?).

Of course, I could be wrong. Never said that I was a lawyer (which I am not). And I sure am not foolish enough to sue a billionaire with a staff of lawyers just waiting for something to do.

And if you really feel compelled to "do something" send EdV, Mr Brown, and the nice folks at Harbor Chase flowers for being kind and supportive when they did not have to be.

Life is like a box of chocolates, never know what your going to get.....:-)

Agreed

And what makes people think that non-Villagers only come to TV in their golf carts? Putting up a wall on our golf cart path does not stop them driving here in their cars - and using our pools if, in fact, that's what they do.

The wall inconveniences we Villagers far more than it does outsiders.

Even if they own a piece of land which must be crossed in order to access that public road?

I think that every land owner has the right to say who can and cannot go on their property. Am I wrong.

That is one thing that has been puzzling me.

It seems very odd that there is one vacant lot in that area, in what seems to be quite a prime location.

Why was it left unsold?

Could it be that it was always the intention to have a golf cart path there?

Maybe a long-time resident of that area can let us know the history.

The retail and medical facilities are not “Villages owned property”. But the roads you travel on in your cart to get to those facilities are maintained with the tax dollars of all the taxpayers in the counties. As such, your friend has every right to travel on those roads whether in a car or cart.

Clearly your friend is excited about the prospect of using those roads to get to all of the medical and retail facilities. I can’t imagine you supporting this VHA blockade solution that would deny her that right and then to continue to call her your friend.

Where on Facebook? What is the Facebook address?

Oot, if you have ever rented or stayed at a motel in The Villages, you are residing in The Villages and on Villages property. That statement doesn't compare to providing a service to Stonecrest, (gate access) on a 24/7 basis for which we pay a premium.

Residents of Stonecrest, as I said earlier, I'm sure are very nice, good people, I think EdV is a good example of that. I think I'm also a very nice, neat, careful person but would you open the back door of your house and tell me or anyone in the vicinity to come in and use the TV or the kitchen or whatever anytime? We wouldn't cause any wear and tear...

The residents in Stonecrest bought there and not in The Villages for all of their own reasons and I respect that. It's a nice community.
They did not opt to live and pay amenity fees in The Villages. I guess I don't understand the philosophy that Villagers need to open their back door and provide for Stonecrest and Spruce Creek, or any other development in that area, so they may use golf cart access. Once it is established there shall be public access to that area by any golf carts, you can't go back. Is it fair to the residents in OB to lay additional cart traffic next to and past their homes?

First of all, it’s VCCDD not VCDD but aside from that you have misunderstood the IRS position as it now stands.

The VCCDD is a local, special purpose government under Florida law. That law includes the ability of the VCCDD to issue municipal bonds but not necessarily federally tax free municipal bonds.

It is the IRS current position that the VCCDD did not meet the IRS criteria for issuing those tax free bonds. So regardless of the final IRS outcome, the VCCDD would continue to exist as a local, special purpose government.

So what is the potential burden should the IRS win their case? Just curious.

EdV, I think you misunderstood my statement... I don't mind anyone using the public roads, I was referring to closing the private cart paths of The Villlages. Sorry if i wasn't clear.

Your curiosity can be satisfied at this site....expect to spend the afternoon.
Village Community Development Districts

Why the sudden fixation with using Stonecrest residents as scapegoats?

I don't know how long Stonecrest has been in existence, but the cart path has been open for twenty years, ten of them as a fully-finished purpose-built paved path, so why suddenly decide that we need to keep the Stonecrest people out?

It seems far more logical that something new has triggered the building of a wall.

And a rival non-Villages assisted living center fits the bill. Especially if the owner of it and our developer have had a long-standing feud.

If you read through the posts, you'll see that Spruce Creek and the new property developments are also included in the gate discussions. I believe Stonecrest is mentioned more often because quite a few people wonder why Stonecrest has to use the road versus The Villages cart paths not knowing that soon Spruce Creek will be able to cross 27/441 and would have access also if there is no gate.

../

peachie - ever since that non-gated hole in the wall has been there access to the villages has been available to anyone. what makes you think that traffic from the outside is going to increase now? for all of the years i have been there i have never heard nor read of the area residents complaining about excessive golf cart traffic? why do you continue to raise only a slim possibility of such when no one else does? or are you just upset because 'outsiders' MIGHT be using multi-model paths that are paid for/maintained by villager's amenity fees - especially when you have no idea how many 'outsiders' use them now or MIGHT use themin the future? i just don't get your concern?

And what I'm trying to make clear is that there are no TV maintained cart paths anywhere in the retail areas along the west side of 441. Any of the diamond cart lanes you see in there are county maintained.

Sorry, Peachie, I didn't mean "sudden" as in "just recent posts", I meant it as in:

Why, if they have been using that cart path for ten or more years would a wall only now be built to keep them out?

Why was a wall not built ten years ago, or as soon as Stonecrest opened?

Just seems very odd to build a wall at 6 am on a Saturday morning (and give no official explanation before or after doing so) to solve a "problem" that has been in existence for ten or more years.

And then to tell your employees and newspaper not to say or publish anything?

njbchbum, you made the perfect point, if no non-Villagers are using the cart paths, why would it matter if a gate is placed there as it is in the rest of The Villages?

SPRUCE CREEK will soon have access to the same golf cart path for entrance into The Villages, it appears, since regular golf carts should be able to cross 27/441 shortly.

My friend in Spruce Creek told me this past spring that the scuttle butt going around Spruce Creek was that Stonecrest was upset this crossing was going to happen because Spruce Creek golf carts would have access to them but they couldn't access Spruce Creek. Stonecrest must have their expectations too.

I would think you would be delighted with the new plan because you can access business on 27/441.