Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 728468)

When a person buys a home in a deed restricted development and one that is run by the developer, that person in essence turns the decision making about how the place is run to someone else. A home owner in a CDD cannot vote on anything. ANYTHING.

The purpose of ANY business is to take in more than you pay out. Also a successful business employs people who pay taxes. I have no problem with this business that runs where I live running in the black.

If any potential buyers want to be part of the decisions that impact how things are done in their community, find someplace else to live.

We have owned property for six years here and not once did we have an opportunity to vote for or against anyone or anything.

It is a huge decision to make. Most find it works out to their liking.

We chose a place that is run like this so that people without experience do not take over and mess things up.

Anyone who has ever attended a homeowners association meeting or has been part of a homeowners board of directors will know JUST what I mean.

It is a choice to live here.

To me,

An EXCELLENT choice.

Originally Posted by Steve9930 (Post 728478)

This post definitely helped the relations between the two communities. As a stonecrest resident and being very active with in the community I doubt that the who ever posted something that put a bur in your saddle is not a representation of our community.

Originally Posted by TVMayor (Post 728500)

I think you just made the case for the IRS.

Originally Posted by TVMayor (Post 728500)

I think you just make the case for the IRS.

Originally Posted by ilovetv (Post 728487)

The "What's Yours is Mine" attitude has been taking over more in recent years, and it's turning this society into a bunch of squatters, moochers and bums.

Private property ownership goes all the way back to Moses and the Ten Commandments, in that people are not to covet nor steal what belongs to somebody else.

Originally Posted by Peachie (Post 728503)

Steve, this is where the bullying starts... because I want adjacent communities to respect The Villages borders as I respect the Stonecrest borders, you state I have a burr in my saddle, you're a lowly outsider and probably the next charge from another poster will be I don't like Stonecresters and so forth. That allows the posters to dodge the real question... do the cart/multimodal paths belong to The Villages? Should The Villages real estate agents promote our community as having golf cart access to Stonecrest?

Originally Posted by Regor (Post 728437)

I think it was great that the people from Stone Crest could drive their carts here. Now they will come by car. Think of the parking problems! Spanish Springs has already lost parking due to the Church's expansion. Every car takes away 2 to 4 golf cart parking spots. I feel the people from Stone Crest will continue to come here but will now make it harder for everyone to find parking.

Originally Posted by SpicyCajunPugs (Post 728265)

Yes, outside realtors seem to like selling the nearby neighborhoods because they can't sell Villages property. So they will stress the proximaty and convenience to the villages and its amenities. I don't blame Morse for being upset about that and trying to do something to prevent it. You have to pay the piper to play.

Originally Posted by Arctic Fox (Post 728475)

The people paying the piper are The Villages residents, not the developer.

If we residents are upset with a few outsiders using our golf cart paths and amenities then we should organise ourselves and ask for something to be done.

If, however, we are happy to share our golf cart paths with a few outsiders, as we appear to have been for the past twenty years, then we should expect the status quo to be maintained.

If the developer (or the VCDD or VHA or whoever actually represents us) thinks that a change might benefiit the residents then they should publish their ideas in The Daily Sun, call a meeting and hold a referendum - not just unilaterally build a wall at 6 am on a Saturday morning in the mistaken belief that "the developer knows best".

Originally Posted by Steve9930 (Post 728491)

You are correct about the public access. The Villages was built using tax free bonds. To do that it need to be classified in a way that allowed it to issue those bonds thus making it pretty much like any other city. This means that you cannot restrict access based on residential location. You cannot do this any more then Ocala can but up gates restricting outside access to their residential streets. I'm sorry some of the Villagers are upset about that and what they wrongly perceive as hordes of outsiders using their swimming pools, etc. Its just not happening. There probably is a solution however. Don't know if it would work or can be done. The Villages could call all those bonds, pay back the $400 million plus, reclassify the development and you could built a twenty foot wall around the whole complex. But I will tell you this doing so will not reduce any of the property taxes you pay to the county.

Another suggestion is to issue a trail sticker for any Golf Cart that uses the paths. You will not be able to restrict sale of those sticker to only Village residents but you would gain revenue from people that are not residents that use the paths. I do believe that would be within the authority of The Villages.

I could be wrong on these suggestions for what do I know I'm just a lowly outsider.

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 728555)

.... where I come from, if a realtor has a client, he can approach another realtor that holds a listing and the commission from that sale would be split.

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 728565)

I don't believe that the residents own the golf cart path in question. I believe that it is owned by the developer. If it harms him to have outsiders coming through it, he certainly has the right to do something about it.
When it was shown how many people would be adversely affected by that closing something was done about it.
As far as I can see both the interests of the developer and the residents have been looked out for here.

People are going on about how we're not allowed to vote on anything here and technically that is true. But the vote that we do have is the choice to live here or not. It is in the developers interest to keep the residents happy. It is in his interest to present the best product that he can for the money so that he can continue to sell his product and get top dollar for it.

Over 100,000 people have made the choice to live here and thats speaks volumes about the place. If everyone was so unhappy and began leaving in droves, the developer would have a lot of difficulty selling new homes and home values would decline. I don't believe that either of those two things are happening.

You see how quick they were to respond when people became upset about this cart path. They don't want anything sullying the reputation of The Villages. That is also how we vote. It may not be in the traditional sense, but it is a vote of sorts.

I came here because I had a friend who lived here and raved about the place. I came for a visit and bought a house immediately. How many others do you thing first came here because of word of mouth? It is important for the developer to keep us raving about the place.

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 728543)

If, as some people in this thread have stated, there are only about 15-20 non resident golf carts, per day, coming through that gate, assuming that they are not all going to Spanish Springs Town Square, and assuming that they are not all coming at the same time, I can't see it being much of a problem.

Also 15-20 golf carts per day, which I'm going to estimate as 20-30 people per day, all going to different businesses is not going to have a substantial impact on any of those businesses.

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 728198)

I have been reading this forum for six years and the same people over and over and over have the same level of bitterness against the developer.

When a mistake like this happens, they nearly jump for joy to pile on.

To me it is ugly. It takes down the whole community, does no good, and just throws dirt back into the faces of those who are ALWAYS negative.

If I felt the way that some did, about the way things are run, I would put my home up for sale, sell it in a couple of weeks, pocket the money and be on my way.

Originally Posted by Peachie (Post 728471)

Yes. Stonecresters admit themselves how they will clog our parking lots with cars. Now that is far from 2 carts crossing daily. Read through the posts and add to that number of carts those that will come from Spruce Creek and further developments in this area.

I think the bottom line is many people in The Villages are amazed at Stonecresters insisting they have a right to the cart paths built and maintained by The Villages that are next to public roads. Stonecrest was NEVER meant to have that private cart access to The Villages, that was meant for the residents of the historic section ONLY.

Everyone needs to remember, there was indeed a gate near that location at a previous time to prevent the Stonecrest population entry and it was abused and destroyed by trespassers to the private paths. Stonecrest's access to The Villages was meant to be through the public roads, period. If you didn't buy your property in The Villages, get in your car or street legal cart and drive over to the town square. We do just that to get to the shopping plaza on Rolling Acres Road across from The Villages and yes, it does take extra gas but that's just the way it is. Why is The Villages being bullied by a neighboring community insisting we will provide them access to our cart paths. Stunning! And please don't tell me non-Villagers can use any of the multimodal/golf cart paths on private property in The Villagers. IF YOU WANT TO PLAY WITH US, PAY WITH US.

There is a pervasive perception growing in the United States, in my humble opinion, that there are no boundaries or limits or ownership to anything in this country. Even though many don't want to expend the money, effort or time to attain what is coveted from their fellow human beings, they insist on all the rights and same privileges as their fellow citizens. This path situation is a prime example.

And to the people in the historic section, should one of the property owner block access to land which that path crosses to give you cart accessibility to the shopping complexes on 27/441 after the gate is installed, SO BE IT! It is private property, get over the entitlement mentality which many of you harbor even though you knew this could happen when you designed your life around the illegal path.

Though one may have difficulties, many people living in The Villages have far greater problems than you have and they don't expect freebies from something they never purchased to make their lives simpler. Adapt, adjust to any changes and think bootstraps, pull yourself up by them.

I truly wonder why anyone aspires to anything in this country anymore since great success leads to slanderous name calling, intense jealousy, lawsuits, and any other annoyance the fellow American's can produce. Success has become evil in the eyes of many and it's very disturbing.

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 728584)

Here is an article about that problem from an outside source, The Orlando Sentinel.


I can't imagine the developer not fixing things like mold in the ceiling.


Villages developer to pay $40 million for recreation upgrades to settle a lawsuit - Orlando Sentinel

Originally Posted by TVMayor (Post 728615)

I would question “some people in this thread” and ask how do you differentiate between a resident and a non resident golf cart to achieve a total of non resident golf carts and I would ask while compiling the total of non resident golf carts did you notice “The Wall” being constructed.

Originally Posted by njbchbum (Post 727828)

and perhaps not, rubicon.

i learned long ago not to judge people or their actions - for they all have a reason important to them for what they do and think. mine is not to reason why - but to try to understand if i choose to and simply insure that i am not injured by their actions/thoughts.

declaring that people did not think with their brains is a most demeaning statement in my book of judgements. i am sorry to see you post such a statement.

i do believe that the actions of villagers and non-villagers was sufficient, for all who watched and listened, to let them know that we are not a group who will lie back and take it and wait for something to happen - but that villagers can be motivated when they deem it necessary to take action.

and, to me, that attitude is not one that makes them a laughng stock..nor is it an attitude by which we should be embarrassed.

Originally Posted by Barefoot (Post 728597)

Preowned homes can be sold by VLS, the Villages Listing Service, or by MLS, Multiple Listing Service. As suggested in Winston's post above, competing agents from VLS and MLS do NOT have the right to show and sell each other's listings, and split the commission. This is a unique situation unlike most other cities. Back in the day, all houses were listed and sold via MLS, but problems developed, and the unique VLS system was developed.

This fact is the reason why most purchasers of resale homes choose to work with two agents, one from VLS and one from MLA.

Originally Posted by Justjac (Post 727974)

I'm confused, Rubicon. On TOTV, you blast those who protested the wall... Yet, on *************.com you post the following:

By Rubicon:
"Great move? Cause a major confrontation? Create confusion and hardships galore for the people on the historic side? Just so he could get someone else to build a gate?
Get real, he wanted to hurt the businesses in that area, even made promises to do such in board rooms when thwarted on his new Brownwood hospital. Now the people of this area went to bat for all villagers in stopping the decline of service in the older areas of the villages. He does not care about the non sales side of his village. To him it just costs, as for outsiders using our amenities, yes they do now, especially since the watch stopped scanning at the pools. I haven’t brought my card to the pool in 3 years.
If he’d gotten away with this how long before the cart trail in Vail Verde to the driving range was closed? How long before those golf courses were closed or maintenance reduced? This is the path that developer you worship has been on in the historic side for the past few years.
Well done to the villagers that stood up and flashed Comrade Morse the bird on this one. Keep in mind the wall is still there and as much progress as seems to have been made he can still walk away from the table if the protests stop and he’s not hurt further.'

Originally Posted by Arctic Fox (Post 728639)

Can anyone enlighten me as to how many residents there are at each of Stone Crest and Spruce Creek?

Thanks

Originally Posted by Regor (Post 728647)

All this bickering over 'outsiders' using our cart paths is just plain childish! What if every state said you can't drive your car on their roads because you live in another state? Do you think Disney World could survive? Could The Villages survive without outsiders? We already use Sumter County money to help pay for entertainment on 2 of the squares. I case you haven't noticed, Spanish Springs area seems to be dying from lack of people going there.

Originally Posted by Warren Kiefer (Post 728624)

Your post is filled with so many statement errors that it is difficult for a response. First, where in the world did you get the information that the Stone Crest residents would clog our parking lots ??? I have read dozens of postings from the historic side that state ther is no huge influx of golf carts from up north. And as to the orginal gate, it was not vandalized, it was ordered removed by the town of Lady Lake. Other than the "major" thoroughfares (Buena Vista for instance) anyone can travel almost anywhere in the Villages community using county highways and streets. These County facilities are not for the use of only Villages residents. Adding to the fact that that if a "Northern Visitor" has a street legal cart they legally can go anywhere in our community. . Well enough said.

Originally Posted by Regor (Post 728647)

All this bickering over 'outsiders' using our cart paths is just plain childish! What if every state said you can't drive your car on their roads because you live in another state? Do you think Disney World could survive? Could The Villages survive without outsiders? We already use Sumter County money to help pay for entertainment on 2 of the squares. I case you haven't noticed, Spanish Springs area seems to be dying from lack of people going there.

Traffic is horrible here in the villages! Every car that doesn't come here, gives more space for carts. I think the developer should make it easier for all the neighboring communities to have easy access to The Villages by golf cart. Doesn't really matter who pays for the cart paths.

Originally Posted by Regor (Post 728647)

All this bickering over 'outsiders' using our cart paths is just plain childish! What if every state said you can't drive your car on their roads because you live in another state? Do you think Disney World could survive? Could The Villages survive without outsiders? We already use Sumter County money to help pay for entertainment on 2 of the squares. I case you haven't noticed, Spanish Springs area seems to be dying from lack of people going there.

Traffic is horrible here in the villages! Every car that doesn't come here, gives more space for carts. I think the developer should make it easier for all the neighboring communities to have easy access to The Villages by golf cart. Doesn't really matter who pays for the cart paths.

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 728645)

According to this website, there are 2,200 homes in Stonecrest.

Stonecrest Summerfield FL - Stone Crest Florida

And according to this website, there ate 3250 homes in Spruce Creek.

Home

I wasn't aware that you could get to the Villages by golf cart from Spruce Creek. It seems a very long way.

Originally Posted by chuckinca (Post 728659)

The spruce creek online link is for Del Webb Spruce Creek not Spruce Creek across 441/27 from Stonecrest (and adjacent to TV).

Originally Posted by Peachie (Post 728652)

Read through the posts, Warren.

As Winston noted already, previous posters indicated how the all of the extra car traffic from Stonecrest will impact The Villages, no error in that statement. Read through previous posts again and you will read from the long time residents how the former gate was damaged and vandalized almost constantly, no error in that statement. I didn't say the county streets and highways in The Villages weren't public, I encouraged Stonecrest to use those roadways and even to use their street legal carts to visit The Villages, no error in that statement.

I don't think it's a secret that you have a deep dislike of the developer and you may well have your reasons for that, Warren. But trying to color discussions which may be advantageous to the developer is not fair to the rest of us.


It doesn't make any difference how many golf carts from Stonecrest and other developments want to use The Villages soon to be gated, it appears, private entrance to access the private black top cart paths into Spanish Springs. From all indications, it was never the intent of the Morse's to open The Villages cart paths on private property to residents outside The Villages.

Originally Posted by Justjac (Post 727974)

I'm confused, Rubicon. On TOTV, you blast those who protested the wall... Yet, on *************.com you post the following:

By Rubicon:
"Great move? Cause a major confrontation? Create confusion and hardships galore for the people on the historic side? Just so he could get someone else to build a gate?
Get real, he wanted to hurt the businesses in that area, even made promises to do such in board rooms when thwarted on his new Brownwood hospital. Now the people of this area went to bat for all villagers in stopping the decline of service in the older areas of the villages. He does not care about the non sales side of his village. To him it just costs, as for outsiders using our amenities, yes they do now, especially since the watch stopped scanning at the pools. I haven’t brought my card to the pool in 3 years.
If he’d gotten away with this how long before the cart trail in Vail Verde to the driving range was closed? How long before those golf courses were closed or maintenance reduced? This is the path that developer you worship has been on in the historic side for the past few years.
Well done to the villagers that stood up and flashed Comrade Morse the bird on this one. Keep in mind the wall is still there and as much progress as seems to have been made he can still walk away from the table if the protests stop and he’s not hurt further.'

Originally Posted by Arctic Fox (Post 728665)

Any idea how many homes in the 441/27 one, chuckinca?

thanks