[GrumpyOldMan]

Well, the other "placeholder" thread got 120 offtopic posts, so to avoid being buried in the noise here is the actual report they promised.

NOT GOOD NEWS.

I can't wait to see all the spin and out-of-context quoting and off-topic misinformation.

But, what can we do. This is the information from the CDC, comments on any topic welcome, even a discussion of why the government is lying to us about why Mary Queen of Scotts abdicated the throne on July 24, 1567...


Bad News From CDC - Today: Jul 30, 2021

[Papa_lecki]

Among the 469 cases in Massachusetts residents, 346 (74%) occurred in persons who were fully vaccinated

Vaccine - substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

So 469 people in a state with a population of 6,900,000?

[Mortal1]

comment....the cdc can not dictate what we must do, but only what they recommend. The fact that their suggestions change weekly and sometimes daily only means they're clueless...why you might ask...because enough facts about the vaccine and those who have taken it(and those that haven't)aren't available. It can take years to amass and understand what all the data means.

You are free to do what you please without gov't interference. Masks do not guarantee you won't get the virus...nothing does. Deal with it!

[jswirs]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

Among the 469 cases in Massachusetts residents, 346 (74%) occurred in persons who were fully vaccinated

Vaccine - substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

So 469 people in a state with a population of 6,900,000?

But that is a look at only one small area in the state. Not the entire state.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

Among the 469 cases in Massachusetts residents, 346 (74%) occurred in persons who were fully vaccinated

Vaccine - substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

So 469 people in a state with a population of 6,900,000?

Uh, no, not of the entire population. Of the reported cases - 469. They can not work with data they do not have. Under testing is a very serious problem.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Mortal1

comment....the cdc can not dictate what we must do, but only what they recommend. The fact that their suggestions change weekly and sometimes daily only means they're clueless...why you might ask...because enough facts about the vaccine and those who have taken it(and those that haven't)aren't available. It can take years to amass and understand what all the data means.

You are free to do what you please without gov't interference. Masks do not guarantee you won't get the virus...nothing does. Deal with it!

Uh, NO it means that they are clued. They have stated that things are changing that as new information becomes available they will update the recommendations.

It never ceases to amaze me how people can demand that experts never change their mind no matter what. That sounds not very smart to me.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Well, the other "placeholder" thread got 120 offtopic posts, so to avoid being buried in the noise here is the actual report they promised.

NOT GOOD NEWS.

I can't wait to see all the spin and out-of-context quoting and off-topic misinformation.

But, what can we do. This is the information from the CDC, comments on any topic welcome, even a discussion of why the government is lying to us about why Mary Queen of Scotts abdicated the throne on July 24, 1567...


Bad News From CDC - Today: Jul 30, 2021

OK, I'll bite.

Here is the part of the article that is essentially a disclaimer:

"The findings in this report are subject to at least four limitations. First, data from this report are insufficient to draw conclusions about the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines against SARS-CoV-2, including the Delta variant, during this outbreak. As population-level vaccination coverage increases, vaccinated persons are likely to represent a larger proportion of COVID-19 cases. Second, asymptomatic breakthrough infections might be underrepresented because of detection bias. Third, demographics of cases likely reflect those of attendees at the public gatherings, as events were marketed to adult male participants; further study is underway to identify other population characteristics among cases, such as additional demographic characteristics and underlying health conditions including immunocompromising conditions.*** MA DPH, CDC, and affected jurisdictions are collaborating in this response; MA DPH is conducting additional case investigations, obtaining samples for genomic sequencing, and linking case information with laboratory data and vaccination history. Finally, Ct values obtained with SARS-CoV-2 qualitative RT-PCR diagnostic tests might provide a crude correlation to the amount of virus present in a sample and can also be affected by factors other than viral load.††† Although the assay used in this investigation was not validated to provide quantitative results, there was no significant difference between the Ct values of samples collected from breakthrough cases and the other cases. This might mean that the viral load of vaccinated and unvaccinated persons infected with SARS-CoV-2 is also similar. However, microbiological studies are required to confirm these findings."

And I would add a 5th limitation----how many of those vaccinated were 5+ months out from their vaccine and possibly starting to lose immunity

And maybe a 6th---how many had the J&J vaccine which is thought to be less effective.

So the jury is still out, I'm not convinced that this single report from a single county can be extrapolated to the whole country. Maybe it can, but that is yet to be proven. What happens is this info gets reported to the CDC and then the question "so what are you going to do now?" arises. So they make a very conservative recommendation. Just as expected'

Oh, wait, that wasn't "spin and out-of-context quoting and off-topic misinformation.". So sorry to disappoint

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by jswirs

But that is a look at only one small area in the state. Not the entire state.

True, only Cape Cod (I think) and only those cases reported. Testing is very limited right now, so scientists are having deal with complex subject and rapidly changing situations and are not being given enough data to make solid decisions.

They are doing the best they can in a VERY political environment. Florida for example dropped from 90,000 tests per day to 48,000 tests per day and are apparently slowly lowering that number. The result - there are fewer cases reported, so it appears the COIVD is in retreat, while at the same time Florida has jumped into FIRST position in the nation with reported cases. Hmm, less testing and more cases... Should tell you something.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

OK, I'll bite.

Here is the part of the article that is essentially a disclaimer:

"The findings in this report are subject to at least four limitations. First, data from this report are insufficient to draw conclusions about the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines against SARS-CoV-2, including the Delta variant, during this outbreak. As population-level vaccination coverage increases, vaccinated persons are likely to represent a larger proportion of COVID-19 cases. Second, asymptomatic breakthrough infections might be underrepresented because of detection bias. Third, demographics of cases likely reflect those of attendees at the public gatherings, as events were marketed to adult male participants; further study is underway to identify other population characteristics among cases, such as additional demographic characteristics and underlying health conditions including immunocompromising conditions.*** MA DPH, CDC, and affected jurisdictions are collaborating in this response; MA DPH is conducting additional case investigations, obtaining samples for genomic sequencing, and linking case information with laboratory data and vaccination history. Finally, Ct values obtained with SARS-CoV-2 qualitative RT-PCR diagnostic tests might provide a crude correlation to the amount of virus present in a sample and can also be affected by factors other than viral load.††† Although the assay used in this investigation was not validated to provide quantitative results, there was no significant difference between the Ct values of samples collected from breakthrough cases and the other cases. This might mean that the viral load of vaccinated and unvaccinated persons infected with SARS-CoV-2 is also similar. However, microbiological studies are required to confirm these findings."

And I would add a 5th limitation----how many of those vaccinated were 5+ months out from their vaccine and possibly starting to lose immunity

And maybe a 6th---how many had the J&J vaccine which is thought to be less effective.

So the jury is still out, I'm not convinced that this single report from a single county can be extrapolated to the whole country. Maybe it can, but that is yet to be proven. What happens is this info gets reported to the CDC and then the question "so what are you going to do now?" arises. So they make a very conservative recommendation. Just as expected'

Oh, wait, that wasn't "spin and out-of-context quoting and off-topic misinformation.". So sorry to disappoint

Very good point. I do think the CDCs initial disclaimer about the lack of quality data encompasses your suggestions, but that does not reduce what you said.

As I said in the OP - Bad News. Not yet definitive. But no "good news" ... sigh. At least part of the bad news is that we are not collecting enough data to make good decisions.

[Escape Artist]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

True, only Cape Cod (I think) and only those cases reported. Testing is very limited right now, so scientists are having deal with complex subject and rapidly changing situations and are not being given enough data to make solid decisions.

They are doing the best they can in a VERY political environment. Florida for example dropped from 90,000 tests per day to 48,000 tests per day and are apparently slowly lowering that number. The result - there are fewer cases reported, so it appears the COIVD is in retreat, while at the same time Florida has jumped into FIRST position in the nation with reported cases. Hmm, less testing and more cases... Should tell you something.

Is there info about hospitalization/death rate since the numbers have increased? That's important.

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Well, the other "placeholder" thread got 120 offtopic posts, so to avoid being buried in the noise here is the actual report they promised.

NOT GOOD NEWS.

I can't wait to see all the spin and out-of-context quoting and off-topic misinformation.

But, what can we do. This is the information from the CDC, comments on any topic welcome, even a discussion of why the government is lying to us about why Mary Queen of Scotts abdicated the throne on July 24, 1567...


Bad News From CDC - Today: Jul 30, 2021

The report states limitations on the conclusions. It’s a super spreader event.
————————

The findings in this report are subject to at least four limitations. First, data from this report are insufficient to draw conclusions about the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines against SARS-CoV-2, including the Delta variant, during this outbreak. As population-level vaccination coverage increases, vaccinated persons are likely to represent a larger proportion of COVID-19 cases.
————————.
Sweden with 50% vaccination has a flat Covid trend. They have tight border control unlike our southern border. To answer your question about illegal immigrants from the closed thread ICE estimate for last month is 188,000 illegals and about one million year to date with about a 13% Covid rate for those tested. 30% of illegals refuse vaccination. They come from an area where the Delta variant first appeared and are bussed/ flown to unspecified parts of the country. All it takes is one person to seed the virus.

[Papa_lecki]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

Is there info about hospitalization/death rate since the numbers have increased? That's important.

In the report…..
Of the infections, 74% occurred in fully vaccinated people who had one of the three FDA-emergency approved vaccines and 80% had symptoms (so you don’t have to do the math, MOST of the infected were vaccinated. So in this case, being un vaccinated was better)
Only four of the vaccinated people were hospitalized, two of whom had underlying conditions, and there were no deaths
Results showed that vaccinated people who get COVID-19 have same viral levels as the unvaccinated

Population of Barnstable County, MA, where data comes from, is 213,000.
And apparently the vaccine isn’t a vaccine.

Washington Post
Two new variants in Florida
Carlos Migoya, CEO of Jackson Health System, told WPLG in Miami earlier this week that the B.1.621 variant has accounted for about 10 percent of coronavirus patients, trailing behind delta, the now-dominant variant in the United States that has been ravaging the nation’s unvaccinated, and the gamma variant. B.1.621 has yet to receive a Greek-letter designation as more prominent variants have.

[Irishmen]

EmeraldRobinson asked @KJP46 (assistant press sec)how the CDC is testing for the Delta variant and she completely falls apart and says it’s because “the experts” say so.

Are you paying attention? The video is painful to watch as these people run your lives and you comply without a whimper.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

In the report…..
So in this case, being un vaccinated was better)

That is an interesting spin, I assume it is your spin and not CDCs. You are giving value to not being vaccinated without knowing the specifics.

And the vaccine is a vaccine against the original variant and not DELTA. That is like taking the polio vaccine and getting chickenpox and blaming the vaccine.

In addition, the vaccine still provided benefits to the people that caught the DELTA variant.