Community standards ?

» Site Navigation
Home Page The Villages Maps The Villages Activities The Villages Clubs The Villages Book Healthcare Rentals Real Estate Section Classified Section The Villages Directory Home Improvement Site Guidelines Advertising Info Register Now Video Tutorials Frequently Asked Questions
» Newsletter Signup
» Premium Tower
» Advertisements
» Trending News
» Tower Sponsors




















» Premium Sponsors
» Banner Sponsors
» Advertisements
Closed Thread
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:50 AM
beartrack beartrack is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 172
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Community standards ?

When you walk into Walmart's garden dept. you will see a Sunbrella gazebo structure that is 11' X 11' on display. It has four poles, one in each corner. The top is solid brown with a small vent at the top. I asked Community standards if I could put this on my 20' concrete patio. I filled out the paper work and one week later they said no. They said that we could have an umbrella but this was too tent like. I asked if I needed their permission for an umbrella, they said no, that umbrellas are allowed. Then "Lo and Behold" I recieved a flyer this morning for an umbrella that measur's 11' X 11'. With the exact same roof as the Gazebo. The only difference is instead of one support at each corner, there is one support in the middle. I just don't get it! It's in my back yard, we have hedges and other shrubs. The only thing that any of my back yard neighbors would see is the roof, and they are exactly the same. I'm confused !!!!
  #2  
Old 03-15-2013, 12:32 PM
downeaster downeaster is offline
Platinum member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,562
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beartrack View Post
When you walk into Walmart's garden dept. you will see a Sunbrella gazebo structure that is 11' X 11' on display. It has four poles, one in each corner. The top is solid brown with a small vent at the top. I asked Community standards if I could put this on my 20' concrete patio. I filled out the paper work and one week later they said no. They said that we could have an umbrella but this was too tent like. I asked if I needed their permission for an umbrella, they said no, that umbrellas are allowed. Then "Lo and Behold" I recieved a flyer this morning for an umbrella that measur's 11' X 11'. With the exact same roof as the Gazebo. The only difference is instead of one support at each corner, there is one support in the middle. I just don't get it! It's in my back yard, we have hedges and other shrubs. The only thing that any of my back yard neighbors would see is the roof, and they are exactly the same. I'm confused !!!!
I commend you for seeking permission before the fact.
This is a deed restricted community and we all accepted the rules when we purchased our homes. We agree on what we can and cannot put in our own backyard.
They have to draw the line somewhere and a gazebo is a gazebo and an umbrella an umbrella.
If they were to make an exception for you they would have to make it for all.
Why an umbrella and not a gazebo? People tend to fold their umbrellas when not in use. Gazebos not so. So while one is away for a day, or just for a short time, and a strong wind appears and gazebo becomes lethal. I have been at a beach where this has happened and people were hurt. Also, many of our backyards have "kissing lanais" and gazebos may be considered unsightly by our neighbors.
I can go and on about the merits of our deed restricted community and they far out way the disadvantages. That is one of the main reasons we moved here.
BTW, my son lives in a non-restricted community where lot sizes are measured in acres. He had one of those gazebos and nailed the legs to his wood deck. A strong wind still tore it loose.
  #3  
Old 03-15-2013, 12:33 PM
Challenger's Avatar
Challenger Challenger is offline
Soaring Eagle member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,173
Thanks: 48
Thanked 303 Times in 126 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beartrack View Post
When you walk into Walmart's garden dept. you will see a Sunbrella gazebo structure that is 11' X 11' on display. It has four poles, one in each corner. The top is solid brown with a small vent at the top. I asked Community standards if I could put this on my 20' concrete patio. I filled out the paper work and one week later they said no. They said that we could have an umbrella but this was too tent like. I asked if I needed their permission for an umbrella, they said no, that umbrellas are allowed. Then "Lo and Behold" I recieved a flyer this morning for an umbrella that measur's 11' X 11'. With the exact same roof as the Gazebo. The only difference is instead of one support at each corner, there is one support in the middle. I just don't get it! It's in my back yard, we have hedges and other shrubs. The only thing that any of my back yard neighbors would see is the roof, and they are exactly the same. I'm confused !!!!
I would assume that one is tent like and the other is an umbrella. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with the decision merely reflecting that the standard must begin somewhere. The next guy may not have shrubs or may decide that side walls are ok. Standards are sometimes tough to agree upon but someone has to have authority to enforce standards and apply them consistently or we will begin to junk up like most of Florida(and many other areas) Just MHO
__________________
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" Edmund Burke 1729-1797
  #4  
Old 03-15-2013, 02:02 PM
gomoho's Avatar
gomoho gomoho is offline
Sage
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4,339
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

I actually saw something very similair to what you are describing on a golf course lot no less and thought it was very attractive.
  #5  
Old 03-15-2013, 02:36 PM
beartrack beartrack is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 172
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

So far all the answers to my Question have been very understandable and show differences of opinion on the subject. My dillema however, still rests with the word standards. No one could possibly know whether or not some folks will fold up there umbrella when they are away or not. Sure, a wind could knock it over or as described in another post turn it into a missile but, same can be said of many things like furniture, potted plants, barbeques etc. etc. The word that come s to mind is "Standards " Is there a rule that says we "Must" put our things away before we leave for a long period of time, or would it be just plain common sense, not "Standards" We can not legislate common sense. We must just trust our neighbors to use some. I live here year around and if I know my neighbors are gone and we receive a storm warning, I check their homes and secure what I can as best as I can. Common sense? I think so. By the way I recently read where the villages has approved an awning company to make covers for our birdcages. Let's see, a birdcage with a cover? Hmmm, might look like a tent, ya' think???
  #6  
Old 03-15-2013, 02:56 PM
graciegirl's Avatar
graciegirl graciegirl is offline
Sage
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 38,771
Thanks: 3,616
Thanked 3,564 Times in 1,240 Posts
Send a message via AIM to graciegirl
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beartrack View Post
So far all the answers to my Question have been very understandable and show differences of opinion on the subject. My dillema however, still rests with the word standards. No one could possibly know whether or not some folks will fold up there umbrella when they are away or not. Sure, a wind could knock it over or as described in another post turn it into a missile but, same can be said of many things like furniture, potted plants, barbeques etc. etc. The word that come s to mind is "Standards " Is there a rule that says we "Must" put our things away before we leave for a long period of time, or would it be just plain common sense, not "Standards" We can not legislate common sense. We must just trust our neighbors to use some. I live here year around and if I know my neighbors are gone and we receive a storm warning, I check their homes and secure what I can as best as I can. Common sense? I think so. By the way I recently read where the villages has approved an awning company to make covers for our birdcages. Let's see, a birdcage with a cover? Hmmm, might look like a tent, ya' think???
In answer to any actions by the architectural review committee. It is what it is.

I like, no, I love deed restrictions that keep individual interpretation of what is beautiful to rule over some kinds of REALLY not pretty things you see elsewhere in Florida.

I have lived in areas of deed restrictions for many years in Ohio and it does keep your property values protected in some ways.

I know you are frustrated, but you aren't being singled out.

On the north side of 466 there are fewer restrictions.
__________________
It is better to laugh than to cry.
  #7  
Old 03-15-2013, 04:26 PM
jimbo2012's Avatar
jimbo2012 jimbo2012 is offline
Sage
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: LI, NY >Fernandina South
Posts: 7,152
Thanks: 54
Thanked 92 Times in 52 Posts
Default

It may be better when the new districts ARC are no longer controlled be the villages and turned over to the owners, but maybe not.

At least then with owners there is a a review process not it really up to one person.

Now you only alternative is to challenge them in Court, you may win but the costs I doubt will justify the fight.

Better things to do like enjoy!
__________________
Nova Water filters | Solar Lithium golf cart upgrades
  #8  
Old 03-15-2013, 04:47 PM
rp001 rp001 is offline
Veteran member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: glenbrook
Posts: 736
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default standards

Quote:
Originally Posted by beartrack View Post
So far all the answers to my Question have been very understandable and show differences of opinion on the subject. My dillema however, still rests with the word standards. No one could possibly know whether or not some folks will fold up there umbrella when they are away or not. Sure, a wind could knock it over or as described in another post turn it into a missile but, same can be said of many things like furniture, potted plants, barbeques etc. etc. The word that come s to mind is "Standards " Is there a rule that says we "Must" put our things away before we leave for a long period of time, or would it be just plain common sense, not "Standards" We can not legislate common sense. We must just trust our neighbors to use some. I live here year around and if I know my neighbors are gone and we receive a storm warning, I check their homes and secure what I can as best as I can. Common sense? I think so. By the way I recently read where the villages has approved an awning company to make covers for our birdcages. Let's see, a birdcage with a cover? Hmmm, might look like a tent, ya' think???

While recently contemplating building a substantial addition to my home, I spent several hours with three of the leading contractors in this area..Lots of the time was spent discussing the community architectural board and the "standards," or lack thereof. It seems there is a lot of room in "negotiating" with these folks. Each of the contractors related stories to me regarding "mood swings" by these committees. Something as simple as setback requirements were arbitrary. One time they allowed one and another one was different. The contractors truly don't know which way the wind will blow. I'd take pictures of any existing around town and use that in the approval process.
  #9  
Old 03-15-2013, 04:53 PM
mickey100 mickey100 is offline
Platinum member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,829
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

I believe it, after seeing what is "out and about". Much variation. The architectural review board needs to use some common sense. For example, you could put up a bright purple polka dot umbrella, which they would allow, because it is an umbrella, but because of the color and patterns could look hideous. But if you install a neutral color gazebo thing, it is not allowed and probably would be less offensive to neighbors and the community. I'm in favor of deed restrictions, but I think they need to have a very limited amount of flexibility in interpreting the standards, to avoid situations such as this.
  #10  
Old 03-15-2013, 05:20 PM
graciegirl's Avatar
graciegirl graciegirl is offline
Sage
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 38,771
Thanks: 3,616
Thanked 3,564 Times in 1,240 Posts
Send a message via AIM to graciegirl
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo2012 View Post
It may be better when the new districts ARC are no longer controlled be the villages and turned over to the owners, but maybe not.

At least then with owners there is a a review process not it really up to one person.

Now you only alternative is to challenge them in Court, you may win but the costs I doubt will justify the fight.

Better things to do like enjoy!
The very thought of that time when the any decisions are turned over to the owners makes me break out in a cold sweat.

There are people here who have been highly involved with homeowners associations that can tell you tales that would curl your hair.

I hope that I do not live to see the day that this place is run by the homeowners.
__________________
It is better to laugh than to cry.
  #11  
Old 03-15-2013, 05:42 PM
beartrack beartrack is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 172
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Once again, all good answers. Let me be clear, I am very much in favor of deed restrictions, Just so that they apply to every one the same. I'm not upset because they turned me down, I'm upset because,as has been suggested here that the same "Standards" do not apply to everyone. As I negotiate the cart paths all through the villages I see these Gazebo things in backyards all over the place some are even in birdcages clearly visable to any passer-bye. MY issue here is the folks at architechtural review. They do not seem to have any standards. What would be wrong with someone wanting something and the "Board" not liking it to have the person appear before the board to state their case? The folks at Walmart and Sam's and Bed bath and beyond tell me that they sell dozens of these units to Villagers. Maybe they take them up north, who knows? Well, today I solved my problem. I signed a contract with a reputible contractor who will be installing a birdcage in my yard. The gazebo thing? that will go inside the birdcage over our hot tub. There I will soak all my cares away. Oh by the way. I stopped at a house with the gazebo thing in his yard. He said he has had it for three years and no one has complained. AHAH!!! that's the answer, the diffrence between him and me is that I was stupid enough to ask permission. All this stuff is complaint driven, so if you have a nosey neighbor, watch out.
  #12  
Old 03-15-2013, 06:12 PM
gomoho's Avatar
gomoho gomoho is offline
Sage
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4,339
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

Oh by the way. I stopped at a house with the gazebo thing in his yard. He said he has had it for three years and no one has complained. AHAH!!! that's the answer, the diffrence between him and me is that I was stupid enough to ask permission. All this stuff is complaint driven, so if you have a nosey neighbor, watch out.[/QUOTE]

You are absolutely right - if your neighbors don't care and it's in the back probably would never have become an issue.
  #13  
Old 03-15-2013, 06:20 PM
Barefoot's Avatar
Barefoot Barefoot is offline
Sage
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Winters in TV, Summers in Canada.
Posts: 17,648
Thanks: 1,449
Thanked 177 Times in 124 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl View Post
In answer to any actions by the architectural review committee. It is what it is. I like, no, I love deed restrictions that keep individual interpretation of what is beautiful to rule over some kinds of REALLY not pretty things you see elsewhere in Florida.
The ARC process keeps The Villages a beautiful, tranquil community. It's true that you can erect what you want, and if neighbors don't complain, you may get away with it. For a while. Until a neighbor sells, and a new neighbor moves in, and complains. Then you'll have the expense of removing it.
__________________
Barefoot At Last
No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted.
Saving one dog will not change the world, but surely for that one dog, the world will change forever.
  #14  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:08 PM
downeaster downeaster is offline
Platinum member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,562
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beartrack View Post
Once again, all good answers. Let me be clear, I am very much in favor of deed restrictions, Just so that they apply to every one the same. I'm not upset because they turned me down, I'm upset because,as has been suggested here that the same "Standards" do not apply to everyone. As I negotiate the cart paths all through the villages I see these Gazebo things in backyards all over the place some are even in birdcages clearly visable to any passer-bye. MY issue here is the folks at architechtural review. They do not seem to have any standards. What would be wrong with someone wanting something and the "Board" not liking it to have the person appear before the board to state their case? The folks at Walmart and Sam's and Bed bath and beyond tell me that they sell dozens of these units to Villagers. Maybe they take them up north, who knows? Well, today I solved my problem. I signed a contract with a reputible contractor who will be installing a birdcage in my yard. The gazebo thing? that will go inside the birdcage over our hot tub. There I will soak all my cares away. Oh by the way. I stopped at a house with the gazebo thing in his yard. He said he has had it for three years and no one has complained. AHAH!!! that's the answer, the diffrence between him and me is that I was stupid enough to ask permission. All this stuff is complaint driven, so if you have a nosey neighbor, watch out.
It was not stupid to ask permission. It was the correct thing to do. There are a few residents who seem to delight in ignoring the rules that were put in place to make this a desirable place to live. The ARC does not have the wherewithal to police the neighborhoods for infractions. They, and we the residents, must rely on each other. It is not a perfect method but it works.

I have lived in neighborhoods with strict enforcement, no enforcement, and poor enforcement. Poor enforcement is no better than no enforcement.

It is annoying to see others "get away with it". However, they are in the minority. Our residents in neighborhoods with more liberal restrictions seem to recognize the need for maintaining their properties. One sees a few outlandish ornaments, etc. but for the most part homes are well kept.

It sounds like you made a good decision by adding a bird cage and putting the gazebo inside. I expect you will get much more use and enjoyment by doing that.
  #15  
Old 03-16-2013, 06:12 AM
Bryan's Avatar
Bryan Bryan is offline
Veteran member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Village of Alhambra
Posts: 838
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Send a message via MSN to Bryan
Default

Deed Compliance is, indeed, a complaint driven process. Probably no one wants the Deed Police to patrol the area and write citations. The ARC responds to requests for approval and/or complaints - not a perfect system but the best we have. It works OK but the more public involvement (complaints over violations?) the better it would work.

As for making exceptions, not a good idea. For years exceptions were made (not exactly by the ARC though, in all fairness) for "For Sale" signs in yards. What a ballyhoo that eventually caused. Turns out the long history of ignoring enforcement meant they gave up the right to enforcement it. What was "OK" for For Sale signs for a week or so got out of control with "For Rent" signs that stayed up forever and a few other items. Now enforcement of that deed restriction is questionable - too much history of non-enforcement.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

You are viewing a new design of the TOTV site. Click here to revert to the old version.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:52 PM.