[jdulej]

Originally Posted by drducat

If anyone wants history to repeat itself, removing all reminders (such as statues) is one good way.

Okay, I am fine with a statue of the confederate generals in chains or jail cells. That might be a better reminder to potential traitors

[drducat]

Originally Posted by jdulej

Okay, I am fine with a statue of the confederate generals in chains or jail cells. That might be a better reminder to potential traitors

It did not begin with confederate generals and it will not end that way either.

[BlackHarley]

Originally Posted by DAVES

First of all my great, great, great grandfather was a Northern General. Traitors? You might read about Robert E Lee a great man of HONOR. But, for his leadership the US would have faced years of guerilla warfare. We are INDOCTRINATED that the civil war was fought to end slavery. That the emancipation proclamation freed the slaves and we buy this INDOCTRINATION fed to us by our teacher's union. For those who can still think.
Reality is when Lincoln issue the emancipation proclamation Jefferson Davis not Lincoln was in charge of the south, In his own writings Lincoln's goal was not to free the slaves but to preserve the union. Lincolns hope was to start a slave revolt in the south.
It did not happen. Had it happened. Yes, it would have caused trouble for the south.
In the south several states 1/3 of the population was slaves-I think Mississippi was an example. It would also have resulted in the slaughter of many slaves.
Why the civil war? States rights. Clearly the issue has not been settled, even today.
Only a small percentage of people fighting for the South owned slaves and the north there were few slaves. The reason, was not morals. It was cheaper to higher an immigrant work them to death and dump em.
Hitler had his book burning. We now destroy our statues and rewrite history-reality.

A point well taken and historically CORRECT! Northern morale was at an all-time low. Lincoln, out of desperation, channeled the war efforts toward a different cause.
You hit the nail on the head!

[NoMo50]

So...if I try to understand the "logic" expressed by not just some on this forum, but others all over the world...we should destroy all edifices that have any connection whatsoever to slavery. If that is the case, should we not tear down all of the ancient ruins in Rome? How about Greece? And don't forget our own railroad system. All built on the backs of slave labor.

As John Lennon said while reminiscing about Strawberry Fields, "living is easy with eyes closed."

[DaleDivine]

Originally Posted by NoMo50

So...if I try to understand the "logic" expressed by not just some on this forum, but others all over the world...we should destroy all edifices that have any connection whatsoever to slavery. If that is the case, should we not tear down all of the ancient ruins in Rome? How about Greece? And don't forget our own railroad system. All built on the backs of slave labor.

As John Lennon said while reminiscing about Strawberry Fields, "living is easy with eyes closed."

Not all slaves building railroads were black. Native American Indians(STILL living in confinement) and Chinese were also a big part of the slavery building the railways across America.

[airstreamingypsy]

Originally Posted by Bay Kid

It is amazing how a 2 time loser, drug addict Floyd started the destruction of American history. There is so much more to this than a statue. Monument Ave. used to be beautiful now looks like a war zone. To be replaced with a Floyd statue, or maybe a pacifier?
No big deal.

A police officer, hired to protect and serve, murdered a black black man, slowly and brutally, and you think the black man started the destruction of American history?

[cj1040]

And what about disgusting Andrew Jackson on our currency? Then there are the slave owning leaders such as Ben Franklin? Maybe just a photo of the white house and capital building and NO People on our currency???

Originally Posted by Michael G.

Whatever side your on, one question I always wondered about.

If people insist on confederate statues being removed for whatever reason,
who is paying for the machinery and man power to remove them??

Can you say "the tax payers".

If these groups insist on removeable, let them collect the funds to pay the removal.

[MandoMan]

Originally Posted by Michael G.

Whatever side your on, one question I always wondered about.

If people insist on confederate statues being removed for whatever reason,
who is paying for the machinery and man power to remove them??

Can you say "the tax payers".

If these groups insist on removeable, let them collect the funds to pay the removal.

We should never have had statues in honor of military officers who took up arms against the United States. We should never have named military bases after them.

On the other hand, there are laws against defacing or destroying a public monument, and those who did it are criminals and should have been charged and punished. There are legal, peaceful ways of petitioning for the removal of these.

And then there are the removal of statues of other people, like Dr. Marion Sims, the Father of Obstetric Surgery, because some people didn’t like his research methods. I expect that any day protestors will tear down the statue of Jefferson in the Jefferson Memorial because he owned slaves. They will tear down statues of Washington, Madison, Monroe, Jackson. They may even try to change the name of Washington, DC because Washington owned slaves. Maybe all the Leesburgs and Washington Counties and Jefferson Counties and all will be forced by violent protest to change their names.

Great people often do things they shouldn’t have done, especially things they wouldn’t do if they were here today. We should concentrate on their accomplishments and forgive them their trespasses, just as we would like people to forgive us ours.

[DAVES]

Originally Posted by jdulej

Confederate generals and Confederate politicians were all traitors to the United States.

HATE is and always has been a powerful yet MINDLESS emotion. Sadly this mentality is what we see consuming our population. We are good they are evil. REALITY is far more REAL and not as simplistic as we are good and they are evil.

[Bsturner]

Originally Posted by Dana1963

And someday the Schwartz Statue will be removed from Spanish Springs.

Wow! If you can’t tell the difference you may want to review your history and research the difference between private property and public spaces.

[DeanFL]

.
.
Sure hope the 'usual suspects' here on ToTV feel a whole lot better spewing their typical... 'BUTs' and mention of their favorites, esp Jan 6.

So many here in our country demand to rewrite our history. In so many ways.

Does this statue removal make anyone really feel better? Does it relieve anger or anxiety? IMO it simply divides our country even more.

Perhaps THIS will be the replacement>>>
.

[DAVES]

For far too many they do not realize the first amendment, no state religion, the right to gather, freedom of speech does not say ONLY IF THEY AGREE WITH ME.

[Blackbird45]

The civil war end on April 9, 1865.
The Robert E Lee statue was erected in 1924.
The question should not be how much it cost the tax payers to take it down, it should be how much it cost in todays dollars to put it up.
Let not forget this war was a stain on our country.

[DAVES]

Originally Posted by I'm Popeye!

We ALL know the United States Government will pay $350.95 for a $10.00 hammer...
A few broken windows, $30 Million!

Truth. When Dinkins became mayor of New York i sent him a letter. I would go to work for New York City and they would pay me 10% of every dollar I saved them. Of course I never got a reply. Another NUT. Reality you would have seen my name in the top ten earners in the United States. The second year you would have been reading my obituary all those on the take one or several would have killed me.

[DAVES]

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe

Perhaps your knowledge of history is better than mine, but reading the articles of confederation that preceded the constitution, the importance of local, states rights, it seems inconceivable that the ,then relativity independent states would have joined into a system they could not walk away from. My understanding is Robert E Lee was offered the command of union forces, refused and resigned his commission because his state wanted to leave the union. As a military commander Gen Lee did remarkedly well with what he had to work with. The confederate states lost due to economic/ logistical realities. After the war this loosing general was offered many appointments by foreign governments due to his demonstrated abilities.

As I regularly state HATE is a powerful yet MINDLESS emotion. There is no need for knowledge to HATE. It actually gets in the way. SADLY WHERE WE ARE AND HOW WE GOT HERE.