I am interested in the occupancy rate for the lofts. what is it currently?

I understand that for some the lofts is not a good deal. However, my wife has stated that if I were to die she might be interested in a low maintenance option like an apartment. Personally I don't think the lofts are worth the cost, and I wonder how much interest there would be. We also have to think about the 286 unit apartment complex at Hacienda Hills. Why build it if it will sit unoccupied?

I really wonder how many people would even be interested in apartments at spanish springs. the apartments would be right on the square and would be subject to crowd and music noise nightly as well as traffic. the lofts at least have a buffer as they are off brownwood square.

Actually you have your facts wrong. The first units were occupied in July of 2020, not one year ago and it has only been a little over a month since the final phase was completed and ready for occupancy so the current 85 unit occupancy is not bad at all. I don't know how you are coming up with $2500/month rent when they advertise 1 bedrooms for as low as $1,350 and 2 bedrooms as low at $1,705 without a garage and many residents could care less about a garage or may not even have a car, very few people will need a 3 bedroom so there probably are very few of them available. There are plenty of people in this country that prefer to rent and can do the math, to them owning a house is a hassle and they would prefer the ease of renting without paying property taxes, bonds, maintenance, and repairs and in this case the ease of walking to entertainment, dining, and shopping. If these were not making money for TV they would discontinue their efforts to add more units within TV, they did not go into this blind, they know exactly what they are doing. You asked if I would rent one and the answer is no. I never lived in an apartment and hopefully never will and I'm sure a large percentage of the population would prefer not to rent but there exists a large group that either want the ease of renting or cannot afford the down payment on a home so they have no choice. I applaud the developers for making the decision to add apartment living to TV and see no harm to the community in doing so.

Have you seen the books? You don't really need to see a companies books to figure out why it failed. Usually it is poor business practices or a lack of sales. Maybe the ownership felt the business wasn't making enough profit to justify the hassle of running it. It isn't anyone else's business as to why it was closed. It is the developer's property, no one has the right to question the why of it.

We've also been in a pandemic for the last year and I would have to think that has had an effect on the occupancy rate. I've know a number of people who rent rather than own for all the good reasons you cited. I prefer owning rather than rent but it may get to the point I don't want all the problems of having to make a bunch of calls to get things repaired. One call to the landlord is a lot easier.

The first occupants moved in in mid July 2020 but they started pre leasing in mid February 2020. They had roughly 20 pre leased before the July move in date. Of those 7 or 8 have already moved out.

Are these figures guesses?

Yes they have been leasing these apartments for a year now. It has been reported that the rents have been reduced recently. Current renters will get the lower rent price when their leases expire.

No, but the move outs may be higher, I haven't checked in a few weeks.

Frequent posters see rumors everywhere. They can’t recognize facts when they see them.

I can see it now - apartments get built overlooking the square where music is played every night and the occupants, knowing full well the music plays every night, starts to complain about the music; sort of like the people living next to the turnpike complaining about the turnpike noise that was there long before they moved in. :boom:

I 100% agree with you.

Actually it was part of the advertised “lifestyle” we paid extra for. So it is our business and Katie Belles failed because the developer remodeled it trying to squeeze every nickel out of it.

Yes and the minions ran it into the ground.

If you've seen my videos then you must know that I do a lot of research and digging for information. Much of this is on the internet and in public records searches. Some is puzzle solving and putting the pieces together of what I find to make since of it. The most fruitful information comes from the friendships and relationships I've built since living here and the trust I've earned from many people.

These relationships yield both fruit and direction to new information. Knowing that trust in a relationship is key translates to both knowing what and when to say something, and when not to say anything, to maintain this trust.

Sometimes just being in the right place at the right time and keeping one's ears open is all it takes to find new hints and pointers. My early days of literal "dumpster diving" to find clues and information has been replaced with a less painful (and fragrant) version sitting at a keyboard.

It didn't take a genius to know that KB and HH were doomed for failure. In the few times I visited these establishments it was easy to see that it couldn't possibly be a profitable endeavor. People sitting for hours at KB drinking water or iced tea and ordering only an appetizer for a table of 4 while enjoying "free" entertainment yields little profit for a business.

Watching people bring their own snacks and drinks to the HH pool and not patronizing the bar surprised me but lead to the same conclusions about profitability.

I once posed the question to a knowledgeable individual if they had any idea how much the HH pool was used by non-priority members vs. those who paid for a Priority Membership at the country club. The non-verbal response spoke volumes, very few priority members.

Both KB and HH were private businesses, run to make a profit. They were not amenities; they were not supported by the amenity fee we all pay; they were not an entitlement just for buying a home and living in The Villages.

Have I actually seen the books? No. But the discussions of KB and HH I have had about their operations and losses always come back to just 2 words, "significant" and "unsustainable".

Do I know everything that is happening and going to happen in our community? No, but I do have a pretty good picture of a lot of what is to come, most of which I'm not a liberty to discuss at this point without destroying a lot of trusts in the process, something I will not do.

Apartments in Spanish Springs
 

The number one priority is to keep the Spanish Springs square open and vibrant - squares are an important component to the magic that is The Villages. That means the various commercial enterprises must have enough customers spending money to allow them to be profitable. The Developer is looking for ways to bring more spending into Spanish Springs and one of the ways to do that is to have a concentration of people actually living there. It was pointed out in a prior Forum post that the parking code requirements for apartments is less than for commercial space - less burden and more spending.

You have a rather fatalistic attitude regarding KB and HH. Did you ever see the TV show Restaurant Impossible where a poorly run, money losing place is turned around with good management? Good management GWN, not blaming the customer. And there are many examples of good management affecting a turnaround but maybe the kids aren’t up to it or don’t want to be.

Two points
1 - If the Developer could not make a profit in the restaurant business in their own buildings how is it others can. Surely their overhead is higher than the Developers.
2 - I frequented HH pool many times. Every single time I was checked for resident ID which reveals if you have a priority golf and / or pool pass. There was a couple tables immediately next to the bar that non members were allowed to sit but a non member could not use the pool.

By the look of the amount of responses to your "facts" this time they maybe perhaps shaded towards the hearsay side of the story. Not to say they are wrong but a stretch to call them facts.

Restaurant Impossible has/had a 75% Failure rate...

The only time back then when KB did well was when it was open to non residents , then people complained that it WAS OUR KB and they turned it into residents only and decline started , I stopped In there for a drink 4 or 5 times a week when I lived over there and watched the steady decline we have all heard or seen the water and ice tea group , but no one mentioned the little nips that you would see in the men’s room trash . the reinvention of the upstairs dining room reminded me the one time I went of one of those rubber chicken dinners we have all suffered through at one time or another. The famil would have loved to keep it going it was good for there business but how much do you want to loose I don’t think anything like KB would survive without non residents , I mean a lot of people think bonefish and bluefin are very expensive

FYI for those who don't know yet Lady Lake voted down 3 to 2 permission for the Developer to make the upstairs spaces in Spanish Springs Square into 45 apartments. I think I seen Harold's statue do a little dance last night.

More facts, tsk, tsk,!

Being the visionary man that he was , more likely tears of sadness.

Harold was in it more from the social aspect. Harold lived here. He was a people and party person. It was his idea to build the first town square on the historic side by the post office. Before he built that first square he would walk around the neighborhood in Orange Blossom and ask where is the party this weekend ? If no one had volunteered he would have it at his house on the corner of Aloha Way and Tarrson Blvd (Al Tarrson was Harold's original partner). His son Gary Morse (at age 47) and family moved here to run the business. They were looking more towards the financial end. Harold donated a million dollars of his own money (not corporation) to build the Spanish Springs town square (the second town square). He named Katie Belle's after his mother. Harold said his mother would be proud to have a saloon named after her. No way if Harold was alive would he approve of closing Katie Belle's.