Talk of The Villages Florida
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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Different Responses to the Sumter County 25% Tax Hike (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/different-responses-sumter-county-25-tax-hike-299004/)

Advogado 10-13-2019 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by biker1 (Post 1688332)
I suspect The Villages, like the companies I worked for, has a gross margin target for their product. Any impact fee is just another cost and will be paid by the customer. You mentioned competition. The Villages essentially has no competition. I doubt a price increase, of say $10K for an increased impact fee, would affect sales as they sell everything they can build, and they have been doing it for sometime now. Trying to compare The Villages to GM is not useful. GM has lots of competition.

As I indicated in my post, someone was going to pay for the roads and it turned out to be the existing residents, so, yes, I agree with your last statement. I wonder if bonds could have been floated?
If the Developer could further increase his prices without decreasing sales, he would have already done so. He is not running a charity. He does have competition-- throughout the whole state of Florida.

While he clearly cannot simply raise prices to pass on an increased impact fee, I don't care if he could pass all or some of it along. With increased impact fees, that would be his problem, and the existing taxpayers would not be paying for his massive expansion of The Villages.

BTW, if you are going to defend the indefensible tax hike, would you please reveal your true identity.

biker1 10-13-2019 06:00 PM
Yes, I do mind but I don't obsess over it. And I do vote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Advogado (Post 1688333)
You are right, the stench is overwhelming.

People not outraged by what has transpired are either affiliated with the Developer, affiliated with the County Commission, don't understand what has happened, or don't mind what amounts to their and other Sumter County residents' having their pockets picked to benefit the Developer.

600th Photo Sq 10-13-2019 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Advogado (Post 1688324)
I am sure that The Villages Daily Sun will look into it.
" Lock Em Up "...... to coin a Familiar Phrase. :shocked:

Never gonna happen politics as Usual... Honor, Pride, Honesty, and Conscience not in their profile.

Once a bottom feeder always a bottom feeder.

Individuals will still give them the familiar friendly greeting to them handshakes, pat on the back, hi how are ya, etc,

Wildwood Fl. somewhere USA and most of all Washington no difference at all. :shocked:

biker1 10-13-2019 06:06 PM
I disagree. I believe he can simply raise prices to cover an increased impact fee. Just be clear, we both have opinions and neither of us know for sure so please don't speak as if you are stating facts.

You really should go back and reread my posts before attempting to put words in my mouth. I am not defending anything. I am simply stating what I believe is reality.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Advogado (Post 1688334)
If the Developer could further increase his prices without decreasing sales, he would have already done so. He is not running a charity. He does have competition-- throughout the whole state of Florida.

While he clearly cannot simply raise prices to pass on an increased impact fee, I don't care if he could pass all or some of it along. With increased impact fees, that would be his problem, and the existing taxpayers would not be paying for his massive expansion of The Villages.

BTW, if you are going to defend the indefensible tax hike, would you please reveal your true identity.

OrangeBlossomBaby 10-13-2019 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 1688307)
Thank-you...................but it's generic (in my small mind).






Can I say dude to a girl?
So of course you can say dude to a girl very close to you. Its informal word. ... It's not as common as using it with guys, but yes you can use it with girls. Girls also use it with other girls.
It's okay - I call most people "dude" without consideration of actual gender. It's a non-specific kind of dude. Except - online I spell it dood. Or if I'm with geek pals, d00d.

It's all good, dood. :)

OrangeBlossomBaby 10-13-2019 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Advogado (Post 1688333)
You are right, the stench is overwhelming.

People not outraged by what has transpired are either affiliated with the Developer, affiliated with the County Commission, don't understand what has happened, or don't mind what amounts to their and other Sumter County residents' having their pockets picked to benefit the Developer.
...or, it doesn't have any affect on us *personally* since we don't live in Sumter County, but we are concerned on principal. See this is the kind of rhetoric and hyperbole I'm talking about. You're quick to judge me because I called you out on being over-emotive about what is a very important issue, calling more attention to your reaction than to the issue itself.

My house is in Lake County. I already pay higher taxes than you do over in Sumter, so no - this really has zero effect on me personally. But I also don't approve of the developer having such low impact fees.

I also don't think it makes any sense at all to compare with Collier. It's apples and oranges. Impact fees in Collier cover the costs of every department in the district. Impact fees in Sumter only cover the cost of roads and maintenance thereof.

I feel if Sumter were to increase taxes by 4% this year, 4% next year, and 4% the third year - AND increase the developer's impact fee to $1200 per unit, it would provide for pretty much everything the county needs without pushing away all the residents who are NOT Villagers, who rely on jobs in and near the Villages at minimum wage, and are struggling to pay their rent/mortgage as it is.

A modest tax increase AND a modest impact fee increase.

If you put the entire burden on the developer, then the developer will have to raise his prices. He might not raise them the full amount but you can bet for sure they'll go up. And that will be the beginning of the end of "affordable" in their marketing strategy.

dewilson58 10-13-2019 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Advogado (Post 1688330)
The budget is an annual budget. All the infrastructure won't be built this year. The $100,000,000 figure is generally accepted. Do you have an alternative one?

I cite Collier for comparison purposes and to point out how low the $901 paid for by the Developer is by comparison.

The amount that should be collected here is obviously the total cost of infrastructure expansion (of all kinds, not just roads) necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages divided by the number of houses to be built.

Now, I will ask you a question, Why when they learned of the Developer's plan to massively expand The Villages, didn't the County Commissioners recompute the Developer's impact fee instead of increasing everybody's property taxes?

I will ask you another question, would you identify yourself so readers can determine if you are affiliated with the Developer or Commissioners?



The thing is................A majority of the 2019/2020 tax increase is not going to infrastructure caused by TV growth.



Why didn't they recompute???...........they have a long-term vision for county growth and future county revenues.


The negative focus (yours included) is "selling" the point: 25% is because of infrastructure costs and if the Developer paid a much larger impact fee, 'our taxes would have been flat.'


It's just spread falsehoods.


Just quit whining and move forward.

kcrazorbackfan 10-13-2019 07:05 PM
Good lord. It’s happened, get over it.

Nothing is going take away the tax increase no matter what side you’re on.

My new taxes are still a fraction of what they were in Illinois and even less than in Kansas City.

Move on to something else.

tophcfa 10-13-2019 07:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcrazorbackfan (Post 1688350)
Good lord. It’s happened, get over it.

Nothing is going take away the tax increase no matter what side you’re on.

My new taxes are still a fraction of what they were in Illinois and even less than in Kansas City.

Move on to something else.
You are correct that nothing is going to take away the tax increase, but that doesen't make it right. What can be taken away are the jobs of the county commissioners that voted in the tax increase. That would certainly make the taxpayers that have been wronged at least feel a little bit better about being fleeced.

On another note, I am sick of hearing that taxes are still lower than wher I used to live. One of the reasons that people decided on the Villages is because the taxes are much lower than where they used to live. And the taxes should be lower for several reasons. Here are a few of those reasons. Taxes pay for a single charter school, not for an entire school system. Crime and accociated enforcement costs are much lower in a 55+ Community with relatively little crime compared to a typical urban area. Many northern communities have their trash and recycling costs included in their property taxes, unlike Sumter county. And the biggest cost difference is that Florida has no real winter, which entails huge snow removal costs and road treatments. The cost of keeping roads up north operable during winter is huge, and is only a portion of the cost of winter. Snow and ice, as well as frequent freezing, thawing, and refreezing causes severe and very expensive damage to roads and it occurs every year. I can only roll my eyes when Floridians complain about potholes. A road in Florida that is considered to be in horrible shape would be considered one of the better roads up north. The car we keep in Florida would be worthless at our home up north for about 5 months of the year. We could not get around during the winter and the first half of spring up north without a four wheel drive vehicle with big tires and lots of ground clearance. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the taxes should be much higher up north.

Mleeja 10-13-2019 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Advogado (Post 1688321)
A fair question.

I was trying to keep the original post relatively short. If anything, the $100,000,000 figure that I cited is understated, but I used it because it is easily verifiable. As reported in several sources, including the October POA Bulletin (see page 2) and in the on-line news website, the road improvements necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages will cost $100,000,000. Those roads should be paid for by an increase in the Developer's $901 impact fee, but they are not, thanks to the County Commissioners. Instead, those roads are being paid for with our 25% tax hike.

Note, also that Sumter County only collects impact fees from the Developer for roads. Collier County, where the Commissioners were not handpicked by the Developer, also requires the builder of a house in a retirement community to pay impact fees with respect to the need for expansion of the following infrastructure, in addition to roads: Community Parks, Regional Parks, EMS, Schools, Government Buildings, Libraries, Law Enforcement, Jail, Sewer, and Fire-- all totaling about $20,000. All this data is available on the Collier County website. Why doesn't Sumter County collect impact fees from the Developer for any of these other items? I don't know and could only guess.

Now some simple math with really big numbers: The Developer reportedly is going to build 60,000 new houses. The Developer pays an impact fee that is $1,699 less than the builder of a single-family house outside The Villages in Sumter County. If the County Commissioners had just increased the Developer's impact fee to the non-Villages rate, it would generate the following extra revenue: 60,000 x $1,699 = $101,940,000. Eureka, the new roads are paid for without a property-tax increase.

Alternatively, if the Sumter County Commission calculated impact fees like Collier County does, that would generate the following extra revenue: 60,000 x ($20,000-$901) = $1,145,940,000. Eureka, nobody would have to pay any property-tax at all for the next few years.
You keep making an apples and oranges comparison. You even acknowledge it in this post. In Collier County the impact fees cover a lot more than Sumter County. Many of the areas that are subject to impact fees in Collier County are paid for by the developer within The Villages. The same principle applies to impact fees for homes permits in Sumter County but outside of The Villages. It is very difficult to get the number of single family home permits have been issued in Collier County, but I am willing to bet it is nowhere close to the permits issued in Sumter County due to the development of The Villages. It is call Economies of Scale!

I will just make a short comment about the POA. It is a political organization. It may have started out as an advocate for the residents, but that is long gone. Their goal is to oppose the development of The Villages and to take over our method of government. This can be seen as board members of the POA are running for seats on the CDDs.

Advogado 10-13-2019 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mleeja (Post 1688355)
You keep making an apples and oranges comparison. You even acknowledge it in this post. In Collier County the impact fees cover a lot more than Sumter County. Many of the areas that are subject to impact fees in Collier County are paid for by the developer within The Villages. The same principle applies to impact fees for homes permits in Sumter County but outside of The Villages. It is very difficult to get the number of single family home permits have been issued in Collier County, but I am willing to bet it is nowhere close to the permits issued in Sumter County due to the development of The Villages. It is call Economies of Scale!

I will just make a short comment about the POA. It is a political organization. It may have started out as an advocate for the residents, but that is long gone. Their goal is to oppose the development of The Villages and to take over our method of government. This can be seen as board members of the POA are running for seats on the CDDs.
You miss the point about Collier County. Tell me why Collier County requires developers to pay for all those infrastructure costs in addition to roads, and Sumter County does not. Don't you think it just might have something to do with the Developer's relationship with the Sumter County Commissioners??

OrangeBlossomBaby 10-13-2019 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Advogado (Post 1688361)
You miss the point about Collier County. Tell me why Collier County requires developers to pay for all those infrastructure costs in addition to roads, and Sumter County does not. Don't you think it just might have something to do with the Developer's relationship with the Sumter County Commissioners??
Sure that has something to do with it. But Collier County is also the wealthiest per-capita county in Florida. It includes beachfront property, which can command the highest home prices, even for the homes that aren't considered "luxury" homes.

The Villages developers could of course pay $20,000 per home more than they do now, and be equal to Collier County. Just as soon as The Villages gains ownership of Gulf Coast beach property, and eliminates all the mobile homes in the entire county (not just in the Villages). No one will want to buy a luxury home next to a trailer park, or a prison, or on the side of a highway, without easy access to the beach, marinas, yacht clubs, etc.

Collier County can't compare in any way, shape, or form to Sumter County. That is why you need to stop comparing the two. They can't be compared.

Velvet 10-13-2019 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcrazorbackfan (Post 1688350)
Good lord. It’s happened, get over it.

Nothing is going take away the tax increase no matter what side you’re on.

My new taxes are still a fraction of what they were in Illinois and even less than in Kansas City.

Move on to something else.
If you do that, it will happen again, and again, and again.... maybe a little more next time, since you’re ok with it, this time. It is saying, “You can do whatever you want because we are helpless anyways.” Are we?

Moderator 10-13-2019 09:14 PM
Although this thread started with comparison of the POA and VHA’s responses to the county tax increase, it has degenerated into the same back and forth arguments in the previous thread(s) which are closed. This thread is now closed. Members may review all the points by looking at all the closed threads on this topic.

Moderator


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