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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Difibulators (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/difibulators-105592/)

Barefoot 02-21-2014 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villages PL (Post 832716)
Personally, I wouldn't blame old age or genetics. If there's a family history of heart disease, a person should be eating a heart-healthy diet (a diet that many people claim is too strict). Genes need to be triggered by a poor diet and, secondarily, lack of exercise, and many are not even close to eating a heart healthy diet. Just look at all those who obviously sport huge waistlines of 40 inches or more.

If you are one of those people or have people like that in your neighborhood, I'm not surprised at your enthusiasm for these devices. But I see it differently. I see it as a big failure, a lack of personal responsibility as far as taking one's health seriously.

So, would I chip in $100. for one of these devices? No! Those who would do themselves in by eating junk-food will eventually do themselves in anyway. You save them once and the next time it will be during the night when no one knows they are having a heart attack.

It seems a big contradiction that we call The Villages "America's Healthiest Hometown" and then we need AED devices in every neighborhood. I would rather see people taking their health more seriously and educating themselves about how to prevent heart disease and how to reverse heart disease.
I don't agree with your cold-hearted approach. Not at all. I hope you never need the assistance of neighbors using an AED device. But if you do, I have no doubt your attitude will completely change. In the meantime, please try to be less judgmental.

gomoho 02-21-2014 07:05 PM
:jester:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villages PL (Post 833325)
Mayo Clinic Diseases and Conditions - Heart Arrhythmia: The Mayo Clinic states that you may reduce your arrhythmia risk by practicing a heart-healthy lifestyle.
Note they said MAY REDUCE not ELIMINATE. How many times have we heard of the ultra fit athlete dropping dead from a heart attack. It's not as simple as exercise and a healthy diet. If you are in a neighborhood that has an AED and are in the unfortunate situation of needing it to save your life you can thank the neighbors that had enough sense to contribute to this life saving device. And yes, if it is in you neighborhood and you haven't contributed they will still come to you aid. Personally I would feel like the biggest schmuck on earth to be in that position. But the good news is I would probably be alive to suffer those feelings.

Villages PL 02-21-2014 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pooh (Post 832829)
Sorry you feel that AED are only needed because of a failure in diet or lifestyle. Don't agree with you on this VPL....sudden cardiac arrest can be caused by congenital heart disease, electrical problems of the heart as well as CAD or heart attack. Children can experience sudden cardiac arrest because of a blow to the chest.

Not all of our neighbors contributed for the AED purchase, but if they ever need it used to restart their heart, it will be.
The CDC states that there are about 1 million adults in the U.S. living with a congenital heart defect and there are relatively few deaths resulting from this. 41,494 deaths were reported in 7 years in the U.S. and a congenital heart defect might not have been the main cause.

As I've already stated, electrical problems can be helped by living a healthy lifestyle, according to the Mayo Clinic. If everyone did, this would be a very rare problem. A blow to the chest is also very rare. Most heart attacks are the result of coronary artery disease and a healthy lifestyle would make it an extremely rare event.

AEDs provide a false sense of security, in my opinion. You can't have AEDs with you wherever you go, whereas good health follows you everywhere.

Villages PL 02-21-2014 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by looneycat (Post 833289)
my heart attacks were due to a clotting disorder that did not show itself until the first heart attack and not diagnosed until well after the second. In both events my arteries were clear leaving the doctors scratching their heads in wondering why I had the MI's. A defibrillator saved my life one of those times, PUT THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT , MULES BEHIND!
You forgot to say what you are currently doing to correct your "clotting disorder."

Villages PL 02-21-2014 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefoot (Post 833332)
I don't agree with your cold-hearted approach. Not at all. I hope you never need the assistance of neighbors using an AED device. But if you do, I have no doubt your attitude will completely change. In the meantime, please try to be less judgmental.
Your reply was personally directed at me, rather than addressing the topic.

pooh 02-21-2014 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villages PL (Post 833348)
The CDC states that there are about 1 million adults in the U.S. living with a congenital heart defect and there are relatively few deaths resulting from this. 41,494 deaths were reported in 7 years in the U.S. and a congenital heart defect might not have been the main cause.

As I've already stated, electrical problems can be helped by living a healthy lifestyle, according to the Mayo Clinic. If everyone did, this would be a very rare problem. A blow to the chest is also very rare. Most heart attacks are the result of coronary artery disease and a healthy lifestyle would make it an extremely rare event.

AEDs provide a false sense of security, in my opinion. You can't have AEDs with you wherever you go, whereas good health follows you everywhere.
Having good health is really not a guarantee one will live longer than anyone else. Life is a crapshoot, we live surrounded by dangers. While you may feel food and more importantly, specific foods are the primary and maybe only way??? to good health, many are of the opinion that it isn't the only way.

AED's are for a specific use....and may help....or they may not. Personally I can't imagine people feeling that having an AED gives them license to throw caution to the wind....apparently, you seem to think they might.

angiefox10 02-21-2014 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villages PL (Post 833368)
Your reply was personally directed at me, rather than addressing the topic.
With all due respect... and I do mean that. Your replies have been directed at other people as well.

Please try to understand, we all come from different places. Different diets. We were all raised differently with different educations in heath and fitness.

I work out and have most of my adult life. I eat well, but not as well a you. I don't know that I could eat like you.

My heart hurts when I read your comments. I care deeply for other people. I do a lot of things for my health that others don't do... I would still do everything I could to save their life as I would hope they would for me.

I guess that's all I have to say. You may have a healthy heart.... It appears to be very hard. I hope you can find the diet that will soften it.

Villages PL 02-21-2014 08:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomoho (Post 833339)
:jester:

Note they said MAY REDUCE not ELIMINATE.
Yes, of course, whatever you do for yourself is all about reducing risk. There is never a 100% guarantee. They use the words "MAY REDUCE" because they can't follow everyone around to make sure they are practicing the best possible lifestyle. Most people don't even come close but their suggestion is still very worthwhile and something to aspire to.

Quote:
How many times have we heard of the ultra fit athlete dropping dead from a heart attack. It's not as simple as exercise and a healthy diet.
Statistically, I would say it's very rare. And why is that? It's because athletes are always pushing themselves to test their limit. They often, unknowingly, create stress hormones like cortisol which can be very damaging. If they already have some underlying issue or predisposition, that will bring it out. It goes to prove that you can put yourself at great risk when you're doing something you're not supposed to do, exercising to the extreme.

Quote:
If you are in a neighborhood that has an AED and are in the unfortunate situation of needing it to save your life you can thank the neighbors that had enough sense to contribute to this life saving device. And yes, if it is in you neighborhood and you haven't contributed they will still come to you aid. Personally I would feel like the biggest schmuck on earth to be in that position. But the good news is I would probably be alive to suffer those feelings.
It's strange how no one is ever expected to feel like a "schmuck" for living an unhealthy lifestyle whereby they need an AED, stint, and/or bypass surgery.

Villages PL 02-21-2014 08:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pooh (Post 833374)
Having good health is really not a guarantee one will live longer than anyone else.
Longevity is not what this thread is about.

Quote:
Life is a crapshoot, we live surrounded by dangers.
So the object is to do our best to minimize the dangers.

Quote:
While you may feel food and more importantly, specific foods are the primary and maybe only way??? to good health, many are of the opinion that it isn't the only way.
What have you got as an alternative? I'll keep an open mind.

Quote:
AED's are for a specific use....and may help....or they may not. Personally I can't imagine people feeling that having an AED gives them license to throw caution to the wind....apparently, you seem to think they might.
Well, actually, they have already thrown caution to the wind long before AEDs came along. The AEDs, in my opinion, will just add one more reason to have a false sense of security. Many will think they have done everything they can do and will go no further.

BarryRX 02-21-2014 08:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villages PL (Post 832716)
Personally, I wouldn't blame old age or genetics. If there's a family history of heart disease, a person should be eating a heart-healthy diet (a diet that many people claim is too strict). Genes need to be triggered by a poor diet and, secondarily, lack of exercise, and many are not even close to eating a heart healthy diet. Just look at all those who obviously sport huge waistlines of 40 inches or more.

If you are one of those people or have people like that in your neighborhood, I'm not surprised at your enthusiasm for these devices. But I see it differently. I see it as a big failure, a lack of personal responsibility as far as taking one's health seriously.

So, would I chip in $100. for one of these devices? No! Those who would do themselves in by eating junk-food will eventually do themselves in anyway. You save them once and the next time it will be during the night when no one knows they are having a heart attack.

It seems a big contradiction that we call The Villages "America's Healthiest Hometown" and then we need AED devices in every neighborhood. I would rather see people taking their health more seriously and educating themselves about how to prevent heart disease and how to reverse heart disease.
I just read your third paragraph where you say you wouldn't chip in. That's your right, but I don't understand what you say next. You say that because they eat an unhealthy diet, that even if we save them once, they will just have another heart attack during the night when no one can save them. It sounds to me like one of the previously unknown side effects of being a vegetarian may be the loss of humanity and compassion. Perhaps, if we save them once, even if they don't change their diet, we could give them another 5 years with their spouses, children, grandchildren and friends. Perhaps, if we save them once, they will be frightened into a more healthy life style. I think you are trying to make a statement about self responsibility, but that was a swing and a miss. I'd rather have a heart that has seen an occasional cheeseburger than one that has no compassion.

Villages PL 02-21-2014 08:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by angiefox10 (Post 833378)
With all due respect... and I do mean that. Your replies have been directed at other people as well.
Yes, to people in general but not to a specific person in an insulting way.

Quote:
Please try to understand, we all come from different places. Different diets. We were all raised differently with different educations in heath and fitness.

I work out and have most of my adult life. I eat well, but not as well a you. I don't know that I could eat like you.

My heart hurts when I read your comments. I care deeply for other people. I do a lot of things for my health that others don't do... I would still do everything I could to save their life as I would hope they would for me.

I guess that's all I have to say. You may have a healthy heart.... It appears to be very hard. I hope you can find the diet that will soften it.
There's nothing like being insulted in a nice way. Thank you very much.

Villages PL 02-21-2014 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryRX (Post 833398)
I just read your second paragraph where you say you wouldn't chip in. That's your right, but I don't understand what you say next. You say that because they eat an unhealthy diet, that even if we save them once, they will just have another heart attack during the night when no one can save them. It sounds to me like one of the previously unknown side effects of being a vegetarian may be the loss of humanity and compassion. Perhaps, if we save them once, even if they don't change their diet, we could give them another 5 years with their spouses, children, grandchildren and friends. Perhaps, if we save them once, they will be frightened into a more healthy life style. I think you are trying to make a statement about self responsibility, but that was a swing and a miss. I'd rather have a heart that has seen an occasional cheeseburger than one that has no compassion.
Your post is more of a personal attack against me than anything else. If you would care to restate it I'll be glad to respond.

BarryRX 02-21-2014 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villages PL (Post 833403)
Your post is more of a personal attack against me than anything else. If you would care to restate it I'll be glad to respond.
Perhaps I misunderstood the point you were trying to make in your third paragraph where you say "Those who would do themselves in by eating junk-food will eventually do themselves in anyway. You save them once and the next time it will be during the night when no one knows they are having a heart attack. " It sounds to me like you are saying that if a person is eating an unhealthy diet, we should not try to save their life. Did I misunderstand the intent of your words. If that is not what you meant, then I apologize. If it is what you meant, I must stick to my original comment that I find that position heartless. It is not an attack on you, but a comment on your position. For example, if you were a first responder for the AED program and were called to aid a neighbor who ate at McDonalds every day. Would you refuse to help and let him die because of your previously stated beliefs, or would you help save his life despite your beliefs. If you do the first, then it is you who are heartless. If you do the second, it is only your position that lacks compassion. What would you do? Are only vegetarians worth saving, or are we all worth saving?

angiefox10 02-21-2014 09:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villages PL (Post 833399)
Yes, to people in general but not to a specific person in an insulting way.



There's nothing like being insulted in a nice way. Thank you very much.
As a rule, when someone says "with all due respect" they don't respect the person... In this case it would be incorrect. I respect your knowledge on the subject of food and healthy living. I try to live a healthy lifestyle and for the most part I do. Just not like you. I rarely eat meat of any kind but on occasion do. I do eat fish. I eat an occasional dessert.

When people like you write... I read... and take baby steps to change my habits. I don't try to do it all at once so that my body doesn't notice what I'm doing.

I hope to be an example as people have been for me. By being an example, people will change.

Your comments indicate that you don't think they will change. Sometimes, it takes a jolt like a heart attack for someone to make that change. We all know people who have been brought back to life and changed the way they live. I've seen people eat better, start working out, and stop smoking.

Most of them had to die and be brought back to get there... But they did.

I wasn't trying to insult you. I was trying to get you to see through my eyes. Maybe you can... Maybe you can't

Peace....

Mikeod 02-21-2014 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyking (Post 833250)
My comparison is with "in hospital" rates. I am sure our program exceeds national "out of hospital rates".
But the discussion is what we can do before the pros arrive, i.e., out of the hospital. As you know, we are working on a dead person. If we can provide any assistance that restores an effective heart rhythm and respiration, we have given a dead person a chance for survival. Whether that translates into true recovery is not our goal. We just want to get him to the hospital with a chance.


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