Talk of The Villages Florida
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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Ethanol Free Gas (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/ethanol-free-gas-246486/)

Topspinmo 09-14-2017 07:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiotte (Post 1447879)
Carbureted vehicles can have ethanol gas issues, electronic fuel injected won't. Carburetor jets need to be up sized to compensate for the decrease in energy value. Typically, intermittent stumbling will occur in older carbureted vehicles. Ethanol also has a nasty habit of absorbing moisture ( H2O) further complicating drivability issues. Rubber hoses used to deliver the fuel were an issue with older vehicles but the newer rubber compounds can now handle the ethanol. I know automobile engines, I don't know golf cart engines so what I've stated applies to the latter.
Hear is my experiences from comparing air cooled engines from lawn tractors vs. golf carts. Actually golf cart engine are ran at lower governed RPM that lawn tractors, which makes the golf cart engine life easier nearly dust free life.

When comparing IMO Golf cart gas engines nothing more than over priced air cooled lawn tractor engine. It will burn any gas you can buy at gas station (excluding diesel) same as car or truck. Naturally when you run fuel with low BTU it will preform differently IMO. Also IMO owners should be more concerned oil levels and changes. That by IMO far will be 3k bigger concern that worrying about what pump gas they are using.

Carl in Tampa 09-14-2017 08:08 PM
I Prefer Ethanol-free
 
Ethanol is an adulterant that lowers the efficiency of gasoline.

It was introduced into gasoline to reduce costs, but it also reduces the energy output of the gasoline.

The computer brain of my car recognizes different grades and mixtures of gasoline and adjusts the timing and power output of the engine accordingly.

The car runs best, is most powerful, and gives the best gas mileage, on ethanol-free gasoline.

The only problem these days is that ethanol-free gasoline costs more because it is the pure, unadulterated product.

er9027 09-14-2017 08:09 PM
Iowa guy here....Villages also. Ethanol is a nice product. That's all we burn in our automobiles here...Think it is 15% blend...Works great. Helps the USA overall. I'm not a big fan
of any help from government in business but also understand it helps. Been done for a lot of industries. All that being said: Small engines like golf carts, boat motors,,,,I try NOT to use Ethanol.
Supposedly small engines need the extra lubricant that ethanol doesn't provide...I'm not sure but don't want to take a chance. I have been using it for years..like 20 years in my autos...No problems.
I think most southerns states are avoiding it...Haven't really seen it in Florida or The Villages.

justjim 09-14-2017 08:32 PM
I have used ethanol blended gas in my golf carts for the last six years. Never had a problem. Go figure.

tuccillo 09-14-2017 09:01 PM
The owner's manual for my Yamaha golf cart indicates that up to 10% ethanol is OK. I have been using 10% ethanol for over 3 years with no issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crash (Post 1448068)
I believe it is the other way around the cart is designed to run on ethanol free gas, the reason ethanol free gas is sold at the cart gas stations.

tuccillo 09-14-2017 09:04 PM
The energy of a gallon of gasoline with 10% ethanol is only reduced by 3% when compared to ethanol-free gasoline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa (Post 1448415)
Ethanol is an adulterant that lowers the efficiency of gasoline.

It was introduced into gasoline to reduce costs, but it also reduces the energy output of the gasoline.

The computer brain of my car recognizes different grades and mixtures of gasoline and adjusts the timing and power output of the engine accordingly.

The car runs best, is most powerful, and gives the best gas mileage, on ethanol-free gasoline.

The only problem these days is that ethanol-free gasoline costs more because it is the pure, unadulterated product.

Wiotte 09-14-2017 09:20 PM
Ethanol Free Gas
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuccillo (Post 1448437)
The energy of a gallon of gasoline with 10% ethanol is only reduced by 3% when compared to ethanol-free gasoline.


On a carbureted engine the AF ratio needs to be 14:1, anything more screws up the drivability big time on a high performance engine. I have a 1963 327 350 HP. Runs like $hit on the ethanol crap. If I could run 101 leaded I would. GOD I love the smell of leaded gasoline. Unleaded smells as bad as burnt $hit on a shingle.

crash 09-15-2017 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuccillo (Post 1448435)
The owner's manual for my Yamaha golf cart indicates that up to 10% ethanol is OK. I have been using 10% ethanol for over 3 years with no issues.
Just because it says up to 10% ethanol is ok does not mean it is good. Ethanol is not added as a performance enhancer but to lessen the cost.

I am not saying it will ruin your engine but that the engine runs better without it.

Chatbrat 09-15-2017 08:08 AM
If your car calls for regular and you're putting premium in it--you can actually be damaging your engine for the following reasons:

1) you don't have enough compression and ignition timing to completely burn the gas
2) with incomplete combustion there will be deposits of carbon in your valve train
3) this will be very evident , especially if you do not drive at highway speeds
4) with incomplete combustion you're all jeopardizing the catalytic convertor and O2 sensor

Use the gas that your car is designed to run on

tuccillo 09-15-2017 08:44 AM
"Good" and "better" are non-quantitative terms. It isn't clear to me how my golf cart engine can run any "better" with ethanol-free fuel. It starts immediately and gets 50+ miles to the gallon. I actually did try a tankful of ethanol-free fuel and there was no perceptible difference in performance. Will it get better gas mileage with ethanol-free fuel? Yes, perhaps up to 3% better. However, the cost difference is about $1/gallon more thus it is less cost effective. The manufacturer states that up to 10% ethanol is fine. I tend to listen to the people who make the products. If you have some specific quantitative data to share then I would like to see it. Qualitative observations such as "better" are nearly always impacted by the placebo effect.



Quote:
Originally Posted by crash (Post 1448504)
Just because it says up to 10% ethanol is ok does not mean it is good. Ethanol is not added as a performance enhancer but to lessen the cost.

I am not saying it will ruin your engine but that the engine runs better without it.

Ecuadog 09-15-2017 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mleeja (Post 1447726)
Can one safely use ethanol free gas in a car?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 1447734)
Yes.
Best answer.

autumnspring 09-15-2017 12:13 PM
A bit misleading
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Topspinmo (Post 1447780)
IMO Gas is gas. Anything you buy at the pump your car will burn which includes AVGas. corn gas get the least gas mileage in anything. It has to burn more to produce the same amount of work due to less energy when it exploded in the combustion chamber. Why don't small aircraft piston engines use corn gas? They don't want that junk in engine the keeps in the air.
It is not corn gas. The corn is used to produce alcohol that is added to the gasoline. In days of old, people would add dry gas to the car tank in winter. Dry gas is/was alcohol. The reason it worked was that alcohol mixes readily with both gasoline and water.

Part of the problem is that alcohol in the fuel will also absorb water from the air if it sits around as in people who do not use a golf cart, an airplane regularly.

AVIATION FUEL IS LEADED FUEL AND IS HIGHER OCTANE THAT THE 89 SOLD AS REGULAR GAS. The lead lubricates the valves and as in older outboard engines, the gaskets may not be alcohol proof.

Unlike the way many people maintain their cars, golf carts etc, a plane has a service record. You must do repairs before they fail. You must have a record of service or it will not be flight worthy.

Packer Fan 09-15-2017 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa (Post 1448415)
Ethanol is an adulterant that lowers the efficiency of gasoline.

It was introduced into gasoline to reduce costs, but it also reduces the energy output of the gasoline.

The computer brain of my car recognizes different grades and mixtures of gasoline and adjusts the timing and power output of the engine accordingly.

The car runs best, is most powerful, and gives the best gas mileage, on ethanol-free gasoline.

The only problem these days is that ethanol-free gasoline costs more because it is the pure, unadulterated product.
As usual it took about 15 posts to get the correct answer. Carl is totally correct. I have an engineering degree and used to buy all the carburetors for a "large lawnmower engine manufacturer" I bought 10 Million carburetors a year, and was involved in Warranty. On cars he is correct. Pure gas will get you better mileage and less problems IN THE LONG RUN. With Carbureted Golf carts, I BEG YOU to use ethenol free gas. Ethanol attracts water, which sits in the carburetor bowls and jets and corrodes them. You are dealing with TINY jets in there, that are finely tuned. The corrosion gets bad enough and starts to break off and clog the jets and then you have problems. Gas will not hold water. 10% ethanol gas will. I have seen THOUSANDS of warrantied Carbs. It ain't pretty folks. The reason we have 10% ethanol is the corn lobby. They want to go to 15% but Honda, Briggs and Stratton, Toro, and all the other lawn guys are screaming because then you will have HUGE warranty issues. You can bury the cost of an $80 EFI unit in a $12,000 golf cart. You can't in a $120 lawnmower with a $5 carburetor.....

Ed

Wiotte 09-15-2017 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packer Fan (Post 1448612)
As usual it took about 15 posts to get the correct answer. Carl is totally correct. I have an engineering degree and used to buy all the carburetors for a "large lawnmower engine manufacturer" I bought 10 Million carburetors a year, and was involved in Warranty. On cars he is correct. Pure gas will get you better mileage and less problems IN THE LONG RUN. With Carbureted Golf carts, I BEG YOU to use ethenol free gas. Ethanol attracts water, which sits in the carburetor bowls and jets and corrodes them. You are dealing with TINY jets in there, that are finely tuned. The corrosion gets bad enough and starts to break off and clog the jets and then you have problems. Gas will not hold water. 10% ethanol gas will. I have seen THOUSANDS of warrantied Carbs. It ain't pretty folks. The reason we have 10% ethanol is the corn lobby. They want to go to 15% but Honda, Briggs and Stratton, Toro, and all the other lawn guys are screaming because then you will have HUGE warranty issues. You can bury the cost of an $80 EFI unit in a $12,000 golf cart. You can't in a $120 lawnmower with a $5 carburetor.....



Ed


Excellent synopsis [emoji1303]
Thread closed

autumnspring 09-15-2017 02:37 PM
Your car is far different
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiotte (Post 1448442)
On a carbureted engine the AF ratio needs to be 14:1, anything more screws up the drivability big time on a high performance engine. I have a 1963 327 350 HP. Runs like $hit on the ethanol crap. If I could run 101 leaded I would. GOD I love the smell of leaded gasoline. Unleaded smells as bad as burnt $hit on a shingle.
A 1963 327 was designed for HIGH TEST LEADED GAS. If, I recall the octane rating was min 92 or was it 98. The lead not only boosted the octane but lubricated the valves. Due to the lead, you burn through an exhaust system every 50,000 miles. You need a tune up every 10,000 miles. My last car, I changed the plugs after 110,000 miles. They were still ok but so long as I had bought new ones gaped them I put the new ones in.

Assuming you do not drive it much, fuel cost is not very important. You might visit one of the air fields and see if they will sell you aviation fuel-not sure if it is legal.

RE: 14 to 1
You likely have a single four barrel carb on that. In 1963 no one cared about pollution. You fuel air mix was and is not constant and it gets leaner in the cylinders located further away from the carburetor


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