Talk of The Villages Florida
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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Executive Golf - What if? (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/executive-golf-what-if-351977/)

Joe Mack 08-09-2024 11:23 AM
Terrible idea.

Joe Mack 08-09-2024 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpNorth (Post 2357749)
Even at $1 per round it would chase some marginal players away. Right now it is "Freeloader Golf".
Actually it's not. It's people who paid for the privilege golf.

justjim 08-09-2024 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianL99 (Post 2358087)
Absolutely.

Residents who don't use the pools, should pay less.

Residents who don't play pickleball, shouldn't have to pay for the free pickle balls and the courts.

Residents who go to the Post Office for their mail, shouldn't have to pay for landscaping at the Mail Boxes.

What about people who don't have dogs, being required to pay for all those damn dog parks and poop bags that get used?

I live close to Sumter and never go South and have no intentions of it. Why am I paying for maintenance for all those bridges down there? I've never even been on one.

I'm pretty unhappy that I have to pay the same for trash removal, as the crazy lady across the street, who has 3 bags of trash, twice a week.
If you did your due diligence when you purchased your home in TV you knew the deed restrictions, cost of amenities, and the fact you pay for trash pickup even if your gone, etc. etc. Not much sympathy for those that don’t due diligence. As far as changing executive golf to “”pay” I’m afraid that ship has sailed!

UpNorth 08-09-2024 01:25 PM
So, plenty of snarky comments. What's your solution to lack of tee times during high season? Or slow play? Or poor course treatment by players? Or poor conditions? If nothing changes, expect "all of the above" to continue and possibly get worse.

Papa_lecki 08-09-2024 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpNorth (Post 2358229)
So, plenty of snarky comments. What's your solution to lack of tee times during high season? Or slow play? Or poor course treatment by players? Or poor conditions? If nothing changes, expect "all of the above" to continue and possibly get worse.
Lack of tee times - has to be done through the point system. Change the system so a player mathematically can play Executives 4 or 5 times a week. 4 is probably ok

Slow Play - nothing can be done, the rangers don’t have any authority.

Poor course treatment - nothing, same as above - maybe more rangers, but that costs $$$$

Poor course conditions - that’s the easiest, get real superintendents to over see maintenance of courses.

bigstu1 08-09-2024 01:50 PM
Trail fees
 
I know I pay about $140 for the year for trail fee, rather then not paying and walking. I’m sure most golfers here pay it also, part timers play a reduced fee.

graciegirl 08-09-2024 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpNorth (Post 2357706)
Years ago, one of The Villages' advertising pitches was "Free Golf For Life". I'm sure that may have convinced many of you to buy into the community. But perhaps that could be the reason for lack of tee times during the high season, and poor executive golf course conditions. So, let's take a look at this alternative idea - open for discussion:

Executive golf costs (let's say) $10 per round. This would likely reduce the amount of marginal and casual social golfers who only play because it is "free". This would make more tee times available during the high season. And if you book your tee time and don't show up, it still costs you $10. No refunds unless you show up for a credit.

To compensate for the above, the amenity fee gets reduced for all. How much? Maybe $30- $40 per month? Don't know. But it would certainly appreciated by golfers and non-golfers alike.

In addition, the $10 per round fee covers the so-called "trail fee". You can walk the course or drive your cart on the paths at no extra charge.

Perhaps the fees collected could provide superior course conditions. Plenty of room for improvement.

A good booking website is all you need to manage the payment system. GolfNow has been doing it for years.

The $10 fee and amenity fee reduction above are just guesses on my part. Someone would need to balance the figures. But perhaps this would provide a better experience for Executive Golf, for golfers and non-golfers alike.

"Free Golf For Life"? Or better Executive Golf? Open for discussion:
It isn't really open for discussion. That isn't how The Villages is run. Other places run differently. I like it very much the way it is. Are you new?

UpNorth 08-09-2024 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 2358241)
It isn't really open for discussion. That isn't how The Villages is run. Other places run differently. I like it very much the way it is. Are you new?
Not by a long shot. Are you under the impression that people aren't allowed to discuss things here?:shocked:

tophcfa 08-09-2024 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstu1 (Post 2358237)
I know I pay about $140 for the year for trail fee, rather then not paying and walking. I’m sure most golfers here pay it also, part timers play a reduced fee.
Reduced fee for part timers? Annual trail fee for full timers is $140, or $11.67 per month. It doesn’t make sense for part timers to pay the annual fee, so they pay $20 per month.

LeRoySmith 08-09-2024 02:37 PM
If or when I take up golf you can bet your bippy I'm going to take some serious lessons in golf etiquette and hook up with some old times that know the local dos and dont you dares

fdpaq0580 08-09-2024 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by merrymini (Post 2357952)
I live on a championship course. Some of these people look like beginners and they pay to play on a championship course.People come on my property, hit my house, do not fix divets, and to top it all off, play pretty lousy golf. I watch them do it. There is no delusion as good as self delusion.
Even poor golfers enjoy the experience of playing a great course. The same way old drivers enjoy the experience of driving a great sports car.

Sure do see a lot of corvettes around here.

fdpaq0580 08-09-2024 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acordionist (Post 2358071)
The associated maintenance costs of keeping the golf courses must constitute the highest portion of the amenities that ALL owners pay every month. Don't you think that it is only fair that non golfers should pay a lesser amount than golfers who enjoy that activity?
When WE (all of us) bought here, we bought the "whole buffet". WE all have the opportunity to take, or not, anything and everything on the menu. Going back to cash register and wanting a discount because you didn't want to have the liver Is Not An Option!
You agreed to the terms and conditions. Supporting your community and the lifestyle!
KOOL-AIDE, KOOL-AIDE, KOOL-AIDE!

BrianL99 08-09-2024 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpNorth (Post 2358229)
So, plenty of snarky comments. What's your solution to lack of tee times during high season? Or slow play? Or poor course treatment by players? Or poor conditions? If nothing changes, expect "all of the above" to continue and possibly get worse.
There are certain realities in life, one of which is, things that are "free" or close to free are going to be:

Hard to access. Poorly maintained. Busy. Frequented by the unwashed masses. Less than desirable in comparison to non-free venues.

You were expecting 1st class, uncrowded and meticulously manicured free golf?

Step away from the Kool-Aid. Sip it slowly, don't drink in large gulps.

UpNorth 08-09-2024 06:04 PM
You get what you pay for.

FloridaGuy66 08-09-2024 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpNorth (Post 2357749)
Even at $1 per round it would chase some marginal players away. Right now it is "Freeloader Golf".
I seriously doubt that.

kkingston57 08-09-2024 11:09 PM
Personally like the idea.Appears that recently golf maintenanc budget is not sufficient. 1st thing this would do is that courses will have the money which would allow greens to be over seeded in the winter months.

Biggest problem is that too many people over use the exec courses. Met 1 guy who plays as many as 3, 9 hole rounds almost everyday and I am sure that there are others who do the same.

jimmy o 08-10-2024 04:47 AM
The bad course conditions are mostly due to the inconsiderate players. The oafs that don’t fill divots, rake sand traps, or repair ball marks. Some drive their carts across fairways or even right up to the green if they think no one is watching. Charging these morons $10 would nothing to change their behavior. A better solution would be kicking them off the course, then next time they’d be more considerate

MandoMan 08-10-2024 05:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpNorth (Post 2357706)
Years ago, one of The Villages' advertising pitches was "Free Golf For Life". I'm sure that may have convinced many of you to buy into the community. But perhaps that could be the reason for lack of tee times during the high season, and poor executive golf course conditions. So, let's take a look at this alternative idea - open for discussion:

Executive golf costs (let's say) $10 per round. This would likely reduce the amount of marginal and casual social golfers who only play because it is "free". This would make more tee times available during the high season. And if you book your tee time and don't show up, it still costs you $10. No refunds unless you show up for a credit.

To compensate for the above, the amenity fee gets reduced for all. How much? Maybe $30- $40 per month? Don't know. But it would certainly appreciated by golfers and non-golfers alike.

In addition, the $10 per round fee covers the so-called "trail fee". You can walk the course or drive your cart on the paths at no extra charge.

Perhaps the fees collected could provide superior course conditions. Plenty of room for improvement.

A good booking website is all you need to manage the payment system. GolfNow has been doing it for years.

The $10 fee and amenity fee reduction above are just guesses on my part. Someone would need to balance the figures. But perhaps this would provide a better experience for Executive Golf, for golfers and non-golfers alike.

"Free Golf For Life"? Or better Executive Golf? Open for discussion:
The thing is, “marginal and casual social golfers” also enjoy playing and have as much right to play as “serious golfers.” $10 a round wouldn’t bother me, but there are thousands here who love golf but are scraping by with just a Social Security deposit every month. That $10 could mean they have to give up their major pleasure in life just so you and some pals can get a reservation more easily and play faster.

I play music at a bunch of rec centers, and I work hard at it, learning new material, practicing, and trying to play my best. Some people can only play a few chords and only know three or four songs and do the same ones every week. One thing I’ve realized, though, is that they have the same right to be there that I have, and part of my role as a participant is to encourage them, help them, make them feel valued, and make their time here happy. I’m thinking of some musicians who were frustrating for many of us, but they came every week and loved it. Then they were dead. What if I had said something that robbed them of their pleasure? We’re all in this together.

Ignatz 08-10-2024 05:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianL99 (Post 2358118)
I just did a quick "back of the envelope" calculation, based on the # of homes, number of exec courses & maintenance per course. I came up with $8/month.

If anyone is really interested in how money gets wasted at the District level, go to one of their budget sessions, when Community Watch is discussed. Management thinks they're Howard Hunter (the SWAT team commander from Hill St. Blues) and we all know the CW staff is much more like the Keystone Cops.

Want to know how many garage doors they can check per minute of driving? They have the information. "17" if I recall correctly.

What to know how many miles and average CW vehicle drives per hour and at what speed? They have it.

Want to know how many cars they wave through a gate, in comparison to how many go through an operating gate? They can tell you.

What to know how many phone calls they have to make, per open garage door, before closure? They've got the #'s.

They have more organizational structure and more nonsense statistics than NYPD. What's worse, they can't wait to explain it, in excruciating detail, to anyone who will listen. I've been to 3 District Budget Meetings. In every instance, I've walked out after listening to the CW people for 10 minutes ... & CW still had over an hour to go.
Thankfully a lot of people feel differently about the value of the CW department and appreciate their efforts.

srswans 08-10-2024 05:43 AM
Not Fixable
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpNorth (Post 2357706)
… the reason for lack of tee times during the high season…
So you’re trying to solve the lack of tee time problem. Unfortunately, this is unsolvable because the developer did not build enough executive courses south of 44. 12 neighborhoods were built, (Richmond to Dabney), with zero executive courses - this is probably 10,000 houses. This is the main contributor to the tee time problem.

New courses such as Laurel Oaks are coming online soon but with them are also four new neighborhoods so nothing is gained.

Converting Mickylee and Richmond pitch and putts to executives is something that might actually help.

BrianL99 08-10-2024 06:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignatz (Post 2358411)
Thankfully a lot of people feel differently about the value of the CW department and appreciate their efforts.
Mostly the folks who have no clue how much money is spent to support Community Watch driving around, doing whatever it is they actually do.

Do you have any idea how much the CW Budget is? I didn't think so.

(for those who care, it's approximately $12,000,000. In 2024, the AAC's portion of the CW budget increased by 49% from 2023.)

Our semi-elected officials are doing a bang up job of keeping costs under control.

GizmoWhiskers 08-10-2024 06:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpNorth (Post 2357706)
Years ago, one of The Villages' advertising pitches was "Free Golf For Life". I'm sure that may have convinced many of you to buy into the community. But perhaps that could be the reason for lack of tee times during the high season, and poor executive golf course conditions. So, let's take a look at this alternative idea - open for discussion:

Executive golf costs (let's say) $10 per round. This would likely reduce the amount of marginal and casual social golfers who only play because it is "free". This would make more tee times available during the high season. And if you book your tee time and don't show up, it still costs you $10. No refunds unless you show up for a credit.

To compensate for the above, the amenity fee gets reduced for all. How much? Maybe $30- $40 per month? Don't know. But it would certainly appreciated by golfers and non-golfers alike.

In addition, the $10 per round fee covers the so-called "trail fee". You can walk the course or drive your cart on the paths at no extra charge.

Perhaps the fees collected could provide superior course conditions. Plenty of room for improvement.

A good booking website is all you need to manage the payment system. GolfNow has been doing it for years.

The $10 fee and amenity fee reduction above are just guesses on my part. Someone would need to balance the figures. But perhaps this would provide a better experience for Executive Golf, for golfers and non-golfers alike.

"Free Golf For Life"? Or better Executive Golf? Open for discussion:
"Free golf for life?" - I never saw that in an advertisement. Free if you WALK all the courses.

Free walking courses along with your Lifestyle monthly non-hoa fee that goes up about $10 per year.

Squirrel... They still advertising the Brownwood movie theater?

Nothing in life is truly free... including humans.

Bogie Shooter 08-10-2024 07:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignatz (Post 2358411)
Thankfully a lot of people feel differently about the value of the CW department and appreciate their efforts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GizmoWhiskers (Post 2358426)
"Free golf for life?" - I never saw that in an advertisement. Free if you WALK all the courses.

Free walking courses along with your Lifestyle monthly non-hoa fee that goes up about $10 per year.

Squirrel... They still advertising the Brownwood movie theater?

Nothing in life is truly free... including humans.
Just curious, where is the Brownwood theater mentioned in advertising?

Wilson02852 08-10-2024 07:08 AM
No, just another plan that won't work for many of the residents.

The present plan is workable, just somewhat mismanaged. The biggest problem is the developers lack of creating enough golf courses in the newest expansion areas. Easy to verify with Google maps. Just compare number of courses between 466 and 44 to all other areas.

Bruceg0028 08-10-2024 08:08 AM
All you would do is open up higher costs. Amenity fee with a reduction now would continue to rise over time and you just gave the developer permission to raise green fees over time. 3-5 years down the road it would cost more not less.

If you want to improve speed of play and course conditions is to make it a prerequisite to take a golfing 101 course to be able to make a tee time. While they offer a class it’s not required. People don't fix divots, ball marks. They drive where they shouldn’t and they have no concept of golf etiquette and ready golf. I had one round where I was waiting to hit up on number 9 and the group in front of us literally stood on the green after they were done and decided to just talk. Had no clue we were waiting for them to exit the green. Really!

BrianL99 08-10-2024 08:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruceg0028 (Post 2358489)
All you would do is open up higher costs. Amenity fee with a reduction now would continue to rise over time and you just gave the developer permission to raise green fees over time. 3-5 years down the road it would cost more not less.

The Developer has nothing to do with Executive courses that are owned by the CDD's nor are there any "green fees" associated with Executive courses.

Apples & oranges.

LeRoySmith 08-10-2024 08:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandoMan (Post 2358410)
One thing I’ve realized, though, is that they have the same right to be there that I have, and part of my role as a participant is to encourage them, help them, make them feel valued, and make their time here happy. I’m thinking of some musicians who were frustrating for many of us, but they came every week and loved it. Then they were dead. What if I had said something that robbed them of their pleasure? We’re all in this together.
What a refreshing take and attitude. You win my Internet admiration for the day. If all the 'experts' here could learn a little from you imagine how much better life could be. ⭐

ThirdOfFive 08-10-2024 08:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkingston57 (Post 2358382)
Personally like the idea.Appears that recently golf maintenanc budget is not sufficient. 1st thing this would do is that courses will have the money which would allow greens to be over seeded in the winter months.

Biggest problem is that too many people over use the exec courses. Met 1 guy who plays as many as 3, 9 hole rounds almost everyday and I am sure that there are others who do the same.
Is the amount allotted for course maintenance not sufficient? Or is it more a case of money allotted for that maintenance being paid to people who really don't know what proper maintenance is? More than once I've seen fairways being mowed, where the mower might have one side on relatively firm ground but is leaving ruts in the softer ground on the other side. Ruts are harder (and assumedly more expensive) to fix than long grass. If the process of maintaining courses is itself causing more maintenance issues, then it seems that closer supervision and/or training of the people doing the maintenance might be at least a partial fix.

Blueblaze 08-10-2024 09:20 AM
Between the tee time system fee and the cart fee, I'm paying $20 for about 8 rounds of "free" golf per month. Why would I prefer to pay $80, just to get a $30 discount on my amenity fee?

I don't get it. How does that help anybody? Are we trying to give more money to the CDD to improve the courses somehow? They're in great shape by this time every year. Throwing money at them is not going to solve the tripling of rounds played for the 1st four months of the year.

I'd rather pay LESS for my "free golf" than more!

Topspinmo 08-10-2024 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_lecki (Post 2357736)
Bad course conditions in season are due to incompetent maintenance
And incompetent golfers…:oops:

Topspinmo 08-10-2024 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianL99 (Post 2358502)
The Developer has nothing to do with Executive courses that are owned by the CDD's nor are there any "green fees" associated with Executive courses.

Apples & oranges.
I bet their fingers stuck in pie somewhere? :mmmm:

KenLee100 08-10-2024 11:58 AM
$10 Golf Fee
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpNorth (Post 2357706)
Years ago, one of The Villages' advertising pitches was "Free Golf For Life". I'm sure that may have convinced many of you to buy into the community. But perhaps that could be the reason for lack of tee times during the high season, and poor executive golf course conditions. So, let's take a look at this alternative idea - open for discussion:

Executive golf costs (let's say) $10 per round. This would likely reduce the amount of marginal and casual social golfers who only play because it is "free". This would make more tee times available during the high season. And if you book your tee time and don't show up, it still costs you $10. No refunds unless you show up for a credit.

To compensate for the above, the amenity fee gets reduced for all. How much? Maybe $30- $40 per month? Don't know. But it would certainly appreciated by golfers and non-golfers alike.

In addition, the $10 per round fee covers the so-called "trail fee". You can walk the course or drive your cart on the paths at no extra charge.

Perhaps the fees collected could provide superior course conditions. Plenty of room for improvement.

A good booking website is all you need to manage the payment system. GolfNow has been doing it for years.

The $10 fee and amenity fee reduction above are just guesses on my part. Someone would need to balance the figures. But perhaps this would provide a better experience for Executive Golf, for golfers and non-golfers alike.

"Free Golf For Life"? Or better Executive Golf? Open for discussion:
Alex, I'll take solutions for a non-existent problem for $100.
Learn how to navigate the system if you cannot get a "T" time. Invest your time in learning the system (in your control) rather than trying to upend and change the system. (not in your control)
I am in several groups and golf 4-to 5 times per week, but it's not always on my favorite course at my desired time. The system works well for the estimated 10,000 daily "T" times available. TV offers a good golf school to instruct you.
Good luck and hit 'em straight.

golfing eagles 08-10-2024 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruceg0028 (Post 2358489)
All you would do is open up higher costs. Amenity fee with a reduction now would continue to rise over time and you just gave the developer permission to raise green fees over time. 3-5 years down the road it would cost more not less.

If you want to improve speed of play and course conditions is to make it a prerequisite to take a golfing 101 course to be able to make a tee time. While they offer a class it’s not required. People don't fix divots, ball marks. They drive where they shouldn’t and they have no concept of golf etiquette and ready golf. I had one round where I was waiting to hit up on number 9 and the group in front of us literally stood on the green after they were done and decided to just talk. Had no clue we were waiting for them to exit the green. Really!
Having played golf for the last 56 years I categorically reject that proposal. I suppose when Stewart Cink comes to visit his mom or Patrick Reed his grandparents they can't play until they go to golf school? Ridiculous. Give the ambassadors a bit more power and enforce the existing rules of golf and etiquette.

ficoguy 08-10-2024 01:26 PM
Free golf doesn't mean it's good golf

tophcfa 08-10-2024 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2358637)
Having played golf for the last 56 years I categorically reject that proposal. I suppose when Stewart Cink comes to visit his mom or Patrick Reed his grandparents they can't play until they go to golf school? Ridiculous. Give the ambassadors a bit more power and enforce the existing rules of golf and etiquette.
Some would argue that Patrick Reed needs a refresher on the rules. Personally, I like the guy. I got a kick out of it, and could relate to him, when he could no longer take the slow play of the guy in his group (I think it was Brian Gay) and he walked to the green and putted out before the guy hit his approach shot. If that didn’t send the guy a message to pick up the pace, I’m not sure what would?

golfing eagles 08-10-2024 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 2358643)
Some would argue that Patrick Reed needs a refresher on the rules. Personally, I like the guy. I got a kick out of it, and could relate to him, when he could no longer take the slow play of the guy in his group (I think it was Brian Gay) and he walked to the green and putted out before the guy hit his approach shot. If that didn’t send the guy a message to pick up the pace, I’m not sure what would?
Is it true that part of his deal with LIV is that he’s permitted to carry a shovel in addition to 14 clubs😂😂😂

tombigfoot 08-10-2024 04:46 PM
Get real. Why don't you play the champion courses, so us old folks can go out and have fun on the executives. We forgot how to play. But, we have a great time laughing at each other.

BrianL99 08-10-2024 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Topspinmo (Post 2358532)
I bet their fingers stuck in pie somewhere? :mmmm:
That they do, as all the employees at the Championship courses, are now District Employees.

I'm not suggesting the Developer would take advantage, but I question how that division of labor/costs works, giving many of the workers, work on the Execs & Championship courses, seemingly at the same time ... who's paying them?

BrianL99 08-10-2024 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 2358643)
Some would argue that Patrick Reed needs a refresher on the rules. Personally, I like the guy. I got a kick out of it, and could relate to him, when he could no longer take the slow play of the guy in his group (I think it was Brian Gay) and he walked to the green and putted out before the guy hit his approach shot. If that didn’t send the guy a message to pick up the pace, I’m not sure what would?
I'm not a Patrick Reed fan, as he's a renowned cheater.

That said, at LIV Boston, he was funny, personable and accessible to any fan who was interested. Much more so than anyone else in the field, in my opinion.

Marathon Man 08-10-2024 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianL99 (Post 2358691)
That they do, as all the employees at the Championship courses, are now District Employees.

I'm not suggesting the Developer would take advantage, but I question how that division of labor/costs works, giving many of the workers, work on the Execs & Championship courses, seemingly at the same time ... who's paying them?
All you need do is attend the next meeting of your CDD board and step up to the podium. Ask your question. It will be answered, or you will be pointed in the right direction.


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