[Chatbrat]

infrastructure failing in a fairly new community--faulty construction---Morse Bridge, and now storm water sewers--a house near mine-- 3 owners and they haven't been able to get green full grass coverage--gotta be lousy top soil

[skip0358]

I think it's amazing every time something happens it's the developers fault. He didn't build all the other areas in Florida where pipes are breaking. In this case storm drains. Ever watch the news and see all the breaks throughout Florida? The only thing in common is the soil in the ground. The news the other night showed the pictures of the road that's still closed since the pipes broke down by Orlando about a month ago said should be about 2 more weeks.

[Chatbrat]

Here we know the age of the system we don't know the age of pipes in Orlando--

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Chatbrat

infrastructure failing in a fairly new community--faulty construction---Morse Bridge, and now storm water sewers--a house near mine-- 3 owners and they haven't been able to get green full grass coverage--gotta be lousy top soil

Karst Features and Hydrogeology in West-central Florida-A Field Perspective

Why Are There So Many Sinkholes in Florida? - The Atlantic

CHAPTER 11 STORM DRAINAGE
| 2017 Florida Building Code - Plumbing, Sixth Edition | ICC publicACCESS

[PennBF]

I think it is being confused to believe the problem in question is sink holes in Florida. I hope most who have questions on this are now aware of the reasons. THE real question is why are the water supply pipes failing. In the case of Winifred there were two within the last about 2-3 months within in a few blocks of each other. One was dealt with immediately and it did not expand into a larger problem and the second had delayed attention and it turned into a sink hole allegedly because the water continued to drain within the open hole until the problem became a sink hole. I am not an engineer but never believed in coincidences. In a typical "City" you would have a charter, an organization controlled by statutes and laws for the purport of protecting citizens of the city. Another view is that in the case of Condo's they are under Florida Statue 718 which is MUCH more strict than the statues governing The Villages. As I have said a number of times we love the Villages but are not blind to the loopholes for the Developer and Contractors.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by PennBF

I think it is being confused to believe the problem in question is sink holes in Florida. I hope most who have questions on this are now aware of the reasons. THE real question is why are the water supply pipes failing. In the case of Winifred there were two within the last about 2-3 months within in a few blocks of each other. One was dealt with immediately and it did not expand into a larger problem and the second had delayed attention and it turned into a sink hole allegedly because the water continued to drain within the open hole until the problem became a sink hole. I am not an engineer but never believed in coincidences. In a typical "City" you would have a charter, an organization controlled by statutes and laws for the purport of protecting citizens of the city. Another view is that in the case of Condo's they are under Florida Statue 718 which is MUCH more
strict than the statues governing The Villages. As I have said a number of times we love the Villages but are not blind to the loopholes for the Developer and Contractors.

All things here in The Villages are built to code. The areas in and around us and under us are prone to collapse and will take drain pipes occasionally.


What would the motivation be for a builder with an excellent reputation to put in substandard drainpipes? It seems the Morses and the Raineys have long term goals for this area and will be building well into the future. They have made more money than their families could spend for generations. They still work. Is it because of greed? Or perhaps to continue to build an excellent place unlike any other on this earth? To continue to keep employed the thousands of people whose livelihoods rest on this business effort? Perhaps because there is a huge market for baby boomers with ten thousand retiring each day for the next fourteen years? Why would such smart people do something underhanded when they could build to code????


I am so tired of the Morse bashing. I think it is motivated by jealousy and misinformation and other ugly stuff.

[refeik]

Originally Posted by skip0358

Stuff happens, it's being taken care of that's all that matters.Don't know where you lived but we had quite a few water main breaks on LI & NY City. At least the people are being put up regardless of whose paying for it!
FYI if it's a 6" main 800 GPM flow , 8" 1600 GPM flow at minimum of 50 PSI so it doesn't take long for a mess to be made. Probably a minimum of 1/2 hr. for someone to come out and then shut the main down. So think of how much water flowed before it was shut down.

The subject was storm sewers not water mains.

[skip0358]

Originally Posted by refeik

The subject was storm sewers not water mains.

The one on the south side was a water main. Two post originally were tied together. Besides how much water from ALL the storm drains drain into the big pipe that failed? The storm drain pipe handles many storm drains. Having worked in the trenches for a good many years you'd be surprised what's down there and how easy the soil and the crushed stone sand base disappears. One little leak can create quite a crater under ground and then all of a sudden you have a break & collapse.

[Marathon Man]

Originally Posted by PennBF

I think it is being confused to believe the problem in question is sink holes in Florida. I hope most who have questions on this are now aware of the reasons. THE real question is why are the water supply pipes failing. In the case of Winifred there were two within the last about 2-3 months within in a few blocks of each other. One was dealt with immediately and it did not expand into a larger problem and the second had delayed attention and it turned into a sink hole allegedly because the water continued to drain within the open hole until the problem became a sink hole. I am not an engineer but never believed in coincidences. In a typical "City" you would have a charter, an organization controlled by statutes and laws for the purport of protecting citizens of the city. Another view is that in the case of Condo's they are under Florida Statue 718 which is MUCH more strict than the statues governing The Villages. As I have said a number of times we love the Villages but are not blind to the loopholes for the Developer and Contractors.

Are you suggesting that the building codes are different here than in Leesburg? Can you support that and define the 'loop holes'. Also, Community Development Districts are defined by Florida Chapter 190 law. If you have ever attended a meeting, you see Chapter 190 in force.

[CWGUY]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

All things here in The Villages are built to code. The areas in and around us and under us are prone to collapse and will take drain pipes occasionally.


What would the motivation be for a builder with an excellent reputation to put in substandard drainpipes? It seems the Morses and the Raineys have long term goals for this area and will be building well into the future. They have made more money than their families could spend for generations. They still work. Is it because of greed? Or perhaps to continue to build an excellent place unlike any other on this earth? To continue to keep employed the thousands of people whose livelihoods rest on this business effort? Perhaps because there is a huge market for baby boomers with ten thousand retiring each day for the next fourteen years? Why would such smart people do something underhanded when they could build to code????


I am so tired of the Morse bashing. I think it is motivated by jealousy and misinformation and other ugly stuff.

GG - your head will feel better when you stop banging it against the wall. Ever hear the saying "Haters are gonna hate?" From the URBAN DICTIONARY:


Haters Gonna Hate
A colloquial saying. It means that people who don't like you will always find a reason to dislike you, no matter how stupid that reason may be.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by CWGUY

GG - your head will feel better when you stop banging it against the wall. Ever hear the saying "Haters are gonna hate?" From the URBAN DICTIONARY:


Haters Gonna Hate
A colloquial saying. It means that people who don't like you will always find a reason to dislike you, no matter how stupid that reason may be.

Thank you. I needed that.

[JoMar]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

1. Contract with a nationally recognized engineering firm that is not beholden to the county or developer...to investigate the mode of failure.

2. If shoddy engineering/workmanship/materials is found to be the cause, take legal action against the entity that built it and make them pay for the repairs...not tax money.

3. Start internal inspections on other storm drain systems sharing the same characteristics...of the ones that have already failed.

Who should contract? The residents? And any "National" firm has no standing in FL so it would be their opinion which could only be expressed as to it's compliance with local codes.

Who should pay for the legal action? The residents? If the "National" firm found it in compliance what is your next step?

Who should pay for the internal inspections? The residents?

As I understand it, when the infrastructure is completed the County inspects it before it is covered to insure it meets code. If anything doesn't, it is repaired or changed. If there are issues then it's a County issue and if the codes need to be changed that's where those with the solutions should start. Of course you would need to hire someone (assume your "National" firm) to try and prove the codes are faulty.

[PennBF]

Was not comparing a town (Leesburg) but rather Condo Law against other statues. I will not do the homework for someone to understand the difference but leave that to the person who raises the question. I do find it interesting that to raise a question regarding "controls and accountability" to be referred to as a "hater". The basis for being objective is to have an "open mind". There is a book "The Believing Brain" by Michael Shermer which proposes that a person first determines what they want to believe and then go about the process of proving this belief. Sound familiar?

[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by PennBF

Was not comparing a town (Leesburg) but rather Condo Law against other statues. I will not do the homework for someone to understand the difference but leave that to the person who raises the question. I do find it interesting that to raise a question regarding "controls and accountability" to be referred to as a "hater". The basis for being objective is to have an "open mind". There is a book "The Believing Brain" by Michael Shermer which proposes that a person first determines what they want to believe and then go about the process of proving this belief. Sound familiar?

I think the push back you see is not from a closed mind, but due to the immediate assumption among some posters that something was done not up to code, that the county allows the developer to circumvent regulations, that natural events could not be to blame, and use of words like "scam" to describe the developer's dealings. I like to wait until the real experts have evaluated the problem on site, than the keyboard experts who pontificate from afar.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by PennBF

I think it is being confused to believe the problem in question is sink holes in Florida. I hope most who have questions on this are now aware of the reasons. THE real question is why are the water supply pipes failing. In the case of Winifred there were two within the last about 2-3 months within in a few blocks of each other. One was dealt with immediately and it did not expand into a larger problem and the second had delayed attention and it turned into a sink hole allegedly because the water continued to drain within the open hole until the problem became a sink hole. I am not an engineer but never believed in coincidences. In a typical "City" you would have a charter, an organization controlled by statutes and laws for the purport of protecting citizens of the city. Another view is that in the case of Condo's they are under Florida Statue 718 which is MUCH more strict than the statues governing The Villages. As I have said a number of times we love the Villages but are not blind to the loopholes for the Developer and Contractors.

Yep!