[cabo35]

Lots of places to put this, but I decided to give it its own thread.

http://www.starelectriccars.com/Florida%20Law.htm

One conflict I see concerns what is a public road and what is not in The Villages. To the best of my knowledge, the golf cart paths are NOT public. If I recall, in a recent new article, Villagers are responsible and in fact are paying for cart path renovations north of 466. I am certain the county didn't build the cart paths. After asking several questions trying to determine if the interior streets are public roads, at best I have received mixed opinions in that they belong to the developer until and if he turns them over to the county or city they are in. Some apparently are, some are not.

The implications for enforcement are at best confusing. If they are not public, Hector's pup could be in the driver's seat and he would not be in violation. Would the 14 year old age restriction apply if operation is on a cart path or other non-public road. I know violations have been issued on streets in The Villages but, I have never heard of one on a cart path unless it was at a road crossing. Could it be the jurisdictional issue?

I hope someone with more legal knowledge than I, can clarify how Florida law impacts golf cart operation in The Villagers.

Okay, all you lounge chair lawyers, the debate is on. Have some fun.

The law also defines street legal vehicles.

[chacam]

There is no law that prevents you from driving 30 MPH on a golf cart path in your cart. They are not roads. But if you cause an accident on a cart path because you were speeding, you can be cited for reckless driving.

[ssw]

Check with local law enforcement. First of all they are not golf cart paths, they are recreational paths and it is illegal to drive a golf cart that goes over 20 mph. You have to drive on the road somewhere to get to the recreational paths. Does not matter to me if you drive an illegal cart, but if you get caught your pocketbook will take a big hit.

[cabo35]

Good point on them not being golf cart paths but recreational trails. Makes them sound even less like public roads and I tend to think enforcing Florida MV law on them for any reason would not be legal unless the county or city took them over. Slim chance of that happening.

I doubt the 20 mile limit could be enforced on them as local authorities would not have jurisdiction on recreational trails unless the owners gave them permission through a legal agreement. I have heard of that in other states. The civil liability regarding speed, reckless driving and any damage or injuries that result would be very enforceable through civil litigation.

[Hancle704]

Lt. Wolfe of Sumter County Sheriff's Office mentioned recently that a cart was stopped doing 27 MPH. The Citation was not for speeding, it was for operating an unregistered motor vehicle, and the fine was big. He explained it by stating, if it is going faster than 20 MPH it is no longer a golf cart according to FL Statutes. That being the case, it should have been registered and in order to do that, it needed to conform to Statutes regarding license plates, registration, seat belts, VIN numbers etc. The last point, if it is not a golf cart, than it can't be operated by a 14 year old unlicensed operator.

If you don't believe it, whiz by one of the radar equipped Deputies in a 30MPH Zone doing 29 in your "golf cart".

[cabo35]

There is no doubt that is the case on a public road. Did Lt. Wolfe specifically say it was on the Recreational Trail where I still believe they do not have jurisdiction under any circumstance with the possible exception of DWI. That cart was probably on a public road and fell under the definition "street legal" as described in the above link.

[Hancle704]

I believe he stated it was on a public road and was not "street legal". There may be exceptions about what can and can't be policed. Regardless of these fine points, what is the issue? Is it that there is a need for speed? There may or may not be a law about driving 30 MPH on a recreational path, but one would hope that common sense would dictate driving at a reasonable speed to insure safety for all users.

[redwitch]

I'm wondering if Florida has a law that if a private property owner gives permission (shopping mall parking lots, etc.), officers can cite those breaking street laws. I know this is the case in California. If so, the CCDs or developer may have given or could give the Sheriff's Dept. permission to cite those breaking the law on the recreational paths. This would certainly end any argument about there being no right to cite.

[Villages Kahuna]

I think Hancie has it right. When the coppers (an old Chicago term for the police) shoot you with the speed gun and find you going more than 20 mph, the offense is "operating an unregistered vehicle". In that any vehicle moving faster than 20 mph is required to be registered and have a license plate, a souped-up golf cart is presumptively considered to be illegal and subject to citation. There are penty of places in TV where one travels on the public roadway--along Morse Blvd, as an example. But I believe an operator violating the law regarding the operation of an unregistered vehicle is not protected just because the vehicle is not on a public thoroughfare.

Maybe someone wants to volunteer to test the law by driving their hot rod cart down a recreation trail on in a shopping center parking lot in front of a copper in order to see what happens.

[Muncle]

When souped up, not only has your golf cart become an unlicensed motor vehicle but it is also now an uninsured motor vehicle. You say you have insurance on your golf cart? That's nice, but you no longer have a golf cart. So if the local "coppers" make their determination of your cart during the investigation of an accident, especially one with injuries or a lot of property damage, be prepared to write some checks to people other than the traffic court, without assistance from the good hands folks.

[bimmertl]

Originally Posted by Muncle

When souped up, not only has your golf cart become an unlicensed motor vehicle but it is also now an uninsured motor vehicle. You say you have insurance on your golf cart? That's nice, but you no longer have a golf cart. So if the local "coppers" make their determination of your cart during the investigation of an accident, especially one with injuries or a lot of property damage, be prepared to write some checks to people other than the traffic court, without assistance from the good hands folks.

Not true. Most policies are written very broadly to cover a multitude of recreational vehicles. State Farm, the largest auto and boat insurer in the US, issues a "recreational vehicle policy" which applies to a multitude of rec vehicles. The policy lists your described golf cart as the insured vehicle and covers that specific vehicle which is called a "golfmobile" in the policy. In order to not be covered, the policy would have to strip coverage for modifications to the vehicle either by a change in the definition or by an exclusion listed in the liability coverage section. It's not done in the policy and coverage applies even if it's modified to go faster.

I attended the Villages golf safety course and listened to the insurance agent who was there make the statement there isn't any coverage if it's "modified". I was going to ask her for specifics after the meeting but there were people lined up to talk to her so I ultimately didn't.
Arguably putting larger tires on the cart or even a bug screen is a modification to the cart so then what?

Take a look at your golf cart policy. See where it lists the described vehicle and look at the policy definition of a golf cart, rec vehicle, or whatever. Then look at the liability section of the policy. There will most likely be two sections, one stating when and where liability coverage applies, and then the exclusions section which states something like "when liability coverage doesn't apply". Look for language limiting or stripping coverage if insured vehicle is modified. Doubt you'll find such language.

[DENNIS G]

The cart paths or recreational paths and parking lots are consider private property. If a cart gets a ticket for speeding, they have to be on the street.

[TomW]

It would seem to me that the developer would want to get the recreational trails and other amenities out of their ownership and into some governmental status (CDD) as soon as possible due to the liability. I bet if thousands of people are using a rec trail, the developer is no longer on the liability hook and there is some form of public ownership. Also, laws can be enforced on private as well as public property.

[ssw]

Have you confirmed that your State Farm agent that your policy will pay a claim under the golf cart policy if the golf cart is no longer a golf cart?

[Happy Villager]

When we obtained our golf cart insurance thru Allstate the ins. rep. stressed to us that the policy only covers a cart whose speed could not exceed the State law that defines golf carts.

My concern with speed on the recreational trails is directed at the souped up carts and/or street legal carts that use the trails. It makes me nervous to have someone speeding up in back of me and acting very impatient because my cart is only going the legal speed limit. We have a speedometer so I know how fast I am going. I try and make myself ignore them but when my husband is driving he can be pushed to the limit rather easily and then I really get nervous. I wish people would obey the rules here and stop trying to change what bought them here in the first place.