Glass enclosed lanai analysis

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  #1  
Old 01-27-2015, 11:46 AM
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Arrow Glass enclosed lanai analysis

Well since we’ve been here we had no interest in enclosing the Lanai, but recently changed our mind.

Been reading several threads here and thought I would post my opinion and finding of my research in this type of renovation.

Those that know my posts know I’m a big advocate of solar and a handy DIY “do it your self’r”.

Two weeks ago CVS came over showed the rep what I wanted, knew little about construction techniques, they said too complicated the way I wanted it done???? I guessed I asked too many questions. Like what kind of glass do you offer, what the specs.

He had a total miss understanding of the building code which I learned after speaking with the inspector in person at the building department later on.
For instance if you want to remove the slider you have to raise the floor, not true in most cases. I needed permits’ and inspections costing $1500-2,000, building dept said $107.

Next Custom windows, they had an interesting way of quoting, details didn’t matter they took rough measurements threw out a number of $22,000….ouch, asked how they figured that didn’t get a straight answer, so I said that figure means you’re charging $75 a sq ft for the windows (they did know a little about glass I’ll give them that) but they said if I didn’t want aluminum that’s what wood frames cost. So what does aluminum cost ?$10,000, notice the big round dollar quotes here.

One thing I’ll explain there are two rules in closing in the Lanai 1 don’t use aluminum, 2 read rule one!

Aluminum acts as heat sink by that I mean in the cold weather it transmits the cold temp indoors, just put your hand on it, it’s like hanging ice cubes in the room you’re try keep warm. In the warmer season esp summer it gets very hot almost can’t touch it. So it heats the space.

If you have heat and A/C you compensate by using more energy, if it’s not conditioned space you don’t use it.

To avoid this you should use wood or wood encased in pvc or vinyl, you can feel the difference in surface temps big time.

Next is the glass tempered has nothing to with your comfort, it’s only for safety and required by code if the glass panel in greater than 9 sq ft, none of the contractors knew that size requirement, they said that only if the glass in near the floor, incorrect. The types of glass I believe (and several engineers at 3 glass manufactures I spoke with) is the best in this zone are two low-e versions, not just Low-e, there are about a dozen types some don’t help here, the primary one on the market in the US is Low-e 366, it will keep heat in during the cold temps and heat out when it’s hot.

If you’re not sure what you have look at the glass it stamped in one of the corners. The other version that came on the market since 366 now is 340. The 340 will work better blocking heat out on south and especially west facing windows, east is fine with 366, south is a tossup either will do great.
I plan on using 366 east & south 340 on the west to block that afternoon sun when it gets hot.
If your lanai faces north or east 366 will be good, if the long side faces west it needs 340.

So those types of glass with wood frames will give you the most comfort. In fact if you face south or near to it you will heat the lanai slab heating the concrete and with sliders open add heat into your home.

Also spoke to Elite, knows about glass but….was hard to get specifics, didn’t get a warm fuzzy feeling never gave a quote.
Terry siding aluminum they only do aluminum, you know my opinion there if you don’t care about what I said he does good work around here on vinyl siding etc.

I made a decision after wasting my time with contractors here to again take on a project myself.

Costs about $400 for an architect to draw up plans tomorrow & $100 for the permit, the solar glass mentioned above costs about $2200, I’ll make the wood frames about $500 in wood plus my time, my target is less then $4000 with other items insulation etc. Our lanai is about 1000' but only closing in the part which is 22' X 14 x 12 90" high for the glass.
Two french doors one at each end, so we still have plenty of screened lanai left.

I realize a business has overhead but over $22,000 for the similar thing….

Last point I visited several neighbors that had enclosed theirs, it was late in the afternoon their rooms was very warm facing S SW too warm to be comfortable, they all had shades on all windows and one was open they had double glass but it had no solar coatings.

.
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Old 01-27-2015, 12:44 PM
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Looking forward to the pictures of your project; however, I am surprised you are choosing wood for the window frame in Florida - high maintenance, no?
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Old 01-27-2015, 12:54 PM
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Wood for it's insulation value, you can buy vinyl covered wood frames also.

I built my pergola out of Fl cypress it's great.

But I will use cypress for the frames, but they will be finished with a bronze color stain on the exterior and left natural interior.

Before the glass is set all the frames will be finished with a marine grade high UV finish 4 coats, should last 5 years out side indefinably on the interior.

If the exterior is re-coated as needed it shouldn't be a big job.
But the look should be great.

My architect is stopping by tomorrow to start the plans.


.
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Old 01-27-2015, 01:03 PM
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Is there a reason no one down here uses vinyl windows. We replaced all the single pane in our house in Wa with vinyl windows from Pella. They were not the 366 low e because it's Seattle sun not an issue just reg low e.
I was very surprised that they are still using aluminum windows down here.
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Old 01-27-2015, 02:41 PM
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Sure, aluminum costs less, also when most folks think of vinyl they don't realize it's really wood with vinyl as thin layer of protective coating.

Jel-wen makes a Premium Atlantic window with low-e 366 for a reasonable cost, they can be shopped at lowes or HD.

Any construction worker worth his salt can install them in day or two.


Any home owner that's handy can get the permits and pop those in easy for super room

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Old 01-27-2015, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo2012 View Post

Any construction worker worth his salt can install them in day or two.
Hard to find in these parts!

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Old 01-27-2015, 03:01 PM
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there out there, you can always try Graigs list carefully
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Old 01-27-2015, 03:19 PM
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Default CVS Enclosed Lanai

Wow. I wish you had attended the CVS dog & pony show I went to last week. The local franchise partner, Phil Dolfi (phil@cvswindows.com) addressed many of the issues you raise and gave much more comforting answers -- or spun them. He might be interested in your feedback re: the tech/sales person who looked at your job. Your findings will help me do a better job of evaluating they're offer when (and if) they respond to my request for an estimate. Many thanks for posting.
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Old 01-27-2015, 03:24 PM
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based on I what I learned it was likely a spin on the issues,

I think they select their jobs based on how uninformed the the homeowner maybe.

Just don't ask to many questions and write the fat check se ya

An educated consumer is not their preferred customer IMO.


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Old 01-27-2015, 03:31 PM
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Jimbo...

When I move to TV, you will be on my list of key resources to meet. As a fellow DIYer i have been impressed by the comments and insights you have shared.

Question... what was the driving factor to enclose the lanai?

Thanks in advance
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  #11  
Old 01-27-2015, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-325 View Post
Jimbo...

When I move to TV, you will be on my list of key resources to meet. As a fellow DIYer i have been impressed by the comments and insights you have shared.
tks

[/QUOTE]Question... what was the driving factor to enclose the lanai?
[/QUOTE]

Well we originally thought it was waste of $$, then we realized we weren't getting the utilization out of the space we could, but what made us decide was an evening over friends home in warm room with a big view.

That was until he told me what he spent....from the stealer oh i mean dealer.

So the idea got me doing research on window glass, go to Cardinal Glass online that will get you quick education.

Then when I found the cost of materials, it was a no brainier.

Now to those that can't DIY you can get a better job knowing to have it done right way. Ask your neighbors how that like theirs in summer/winter.

I saw one yesterday done with cheap sliders, guess what single pane glass, total waste the stealer told her insulted glass isn't needed in Fl.

By the way you will see many sliders, they have a lot of air leakage, I don't like them also there are more versatile bars blocking your view.

I like, a larger fixed window say 4' wide by 6' high over a 4' by 18" opening awning window for ventilation.

Or I skipped the awning design and put fixed glass there also, if that bottom window is less than 9 sq ft it need not be tempered, which is double the cost.

For ventilation I'm putting a set of french or atrium doors 8 ft tall by 6' (2-3's) leading out to the pool area witch has a screened in pergola on one end and another set matching on the other end leading out in another screened in lanai area.

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Old 01-27-2015, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-325 View Post
Jimbo...

When I move to TV, you will be on my list of key resources to meet. As a fellow DIYer i have been impressed by the comments and insights you have shared.

Question... what was the driving factor to enclose the lanai?

Thanks in advance
I think that the driving force is privacy. Most of the lots are small and very close neighbors on all sides quite often, even those with golf course lots quite often the cart path is very close. Even as friendly as people are it isn't very private.
The second reason is as the op said the roof and slab are already there and added sq footage seems like a good idea.
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Old 01-27-2015, 04:33 PM
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The only enclosed lanai we had was our first Florida home and it was enclosed with glass and had heat & Air Conditioner. The Florida sun is HOT in the summer. We enjoyed the cool air!

Have you thought about cooling it?
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Old 01-27-2015, 04:53 PM
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I had T&D install very heavy duty, sliding glass doors. They are vinyl coated and they are very thick with low e glass. It was the highest quality doors he could get from his supplier. (I had asked for the highest quality vinyl clad windows.) The doors were initially hard to open and close but they have loosened up some now after a year. The reason that they required some force to close was that they form a very tight air seal and they are tightly locked together. We installed a mini split AC system later and the space is very inexpensive to heat and AC. The glass is so well insulated it stops the UV light from fading the furniture. I know this because we used thick, high quality glass in New Hampshire and even after fifteen years our porch furniture never faded. Unbelievable really. Get a quote from T&D. Make sure you request vinyl doors with high quality, double paned low e glass. My lanai installation was the first time they used this high quality vinyl door. They normally used aluminum. T&D said most people down here didn't see the need for spending the extra for the vinyl.
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Old 01-27-2015, 04:56 PM
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As far as cooling/heating there are permit code considerations that go along with adding duct work or an additional system like a Mitsubishi split system for $3500.

I think if you have solar glass and ventilation you will not be in an area that is hotter than the outdoor temp, and with your living room sliders open some of the A/C will add to cooling as will heating.

Again using the correct glass will heat the slab in turn the space.
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